Autopsy Round 8, 2023: North Melbourne v St.Kilda

[CursingFijian]

His run looks more like Clint Jones and his suspect kicking too. Clint used to be uneven more than terrible too. I thought that he was doing a few more flashy things yesterday and might actually still have a gear to go up. He's like a more wingman version of Stuv at times.

Let me preface this comment by saying I'm assuming we're talking about Byrnes, but I didn't actually go back to previous posts to check.

The best thing about Byrnes is that he looks like he generally makes good decisions on field while simultaneously attempting to do things that very good midfielders do, but with a so-so execution rate. He just needs a few more games to develop a better read at the level, and another one or two more pre-seasons under the belt and he could very well breakout into a high production mid like Seb Ross and Jack Steele did.

His running capacity and acceleration will be good enough for the modern game. I do like the way he trys to shake off tackles using his low centre of gravity and strength through his hips (his technique is better than Hunter Clark's IMO). If he gets very good at that he will become a mid who can wear contact well and break from contests. Also he lowers his eyes most times and tries to purposefully hit targets when he has the ball which is great. Gets to the right spots around goal and seems to bob up unexpectedly, which suggests he reads play reasonably well.

But he's building very nicely.

 

[bergholt]

They look a bit weird. Surely Steele has more than 12 for the year. Even Gresham seems to have had way more than that even playing less midfield. Sinclair seems to get a lot of clearance when attending too. Perhaps it's perception over reality but they look surprisingly low. Clark seems to have had a lot of clearances too.

Yeah it's just the numbers from the AFL app so who knows, entirely possible they messed them up. Not many centre clearances per game though so the numbers will never be super high.

 

[Premium]

Let me preface this comment by saying I'm assuming we're talking about Byrnes, but I didn't actually go back to previous posts to check.

The best thing about Byrnes is that he looks like he generally makes good decisions on field while simultaneously attempting to do things that very good midfielders do, but with a so-so execution rate. He just needs a few more games to develop a better read at the level, and another one or two more pre-seasons under the belt and he could very well breakout into a high production mid like Seb Ross and Jack Steele did.

His running capacity and acceleration will be good enough for the modern game. I do like the way he trys to shake off tackles using his low centre of gravity and strength through his hips (his technique is better than Hunter Clark's IMO). If he gets very good at that he will become a mid who can wear contact well and break from contests. Also he lowers his eyes most times and tries to purposefully hit targets when he has the ball which is great. Gets to the right spots around goal and seems to bob up unexpectedly, which suggests he reads play reasonably well.

But he's building very nicely.

He is developing nicely , the way he is going he going to be a very valuable piece in our team.

A thing to bring up about yesterdays game , knowing our team is defensive orientated playing against a team which very average the way the game panned out could of been expected .
Our team is a work in progress and once we get a true marking target back in the team I feel we will not show how good we actually are.
King is going to be a game changer when he comes back knowing most teams will be King focused letting the players like Membery , Owens more opportunity and of course the small forwards will only benefit.

We have done very well having to make do with a make shift forward line , having Cordy playing as basically a decoy doesn't assist in our forward movement - having a leading big marking forward will change our style completely.

If King comes back and gets settled , the only spot where we have to sharpen up is our midfield - Steele has been no where near his best and Crouch and Ross are good toilers we still need the midfielder to really give us that spark - is it Owens , I don't know but Clark and Gresham have not really been game changing so it is going to be good to see what they do towards the pointy part of the season.

 

[Saintbloke]

Interesting game to say the least- two teams coached by a probably the best coach in recent history (Clarkson), and the other, one of the best (Lyon). It was a game of chess.

 

[AirWinmar]

He had a shocker but I'm happy to let the season play out and see where he's at. Good players are hard to replace and if he gets pushed down the order you have a great side.

Sharman always looks good when he plays, I'm not sure what he gets marked down for. It's like coaches want to find reasons not to play him. Ratts didn't seem to rate him either.

One thing I'd like to see from Sharman is more aggression at the ball, he isn't soft but he looks like he could go harder at it at times. It seems they also wanted to develop him in a dual position so they could rotate him to the wing. That worked pretty well yesterday for him, hopefully he gets a decent crack at it and continues to improve

 

[sammm]

Speaking of supporters, as bad as the footy was last night, the crowd seemed tiny on the TV. A better atmosphere couldn't hurt the footy, might even pump the players up to play better footy.

Not sure what the weather was like, but when two smaller teams play each other twice for the season, surely there's a creative way to get each other's supporters through the gates. Whether it's letting each other's reserved seat holders get in for free, or giving club shop vouchers back to attendees if the crowd numbers hit 30K/40K etc. I know these things cost money, but with so much money coming in from other sources (TV rights etc), there must be some kind of temporary campaign that could boost numbers in the stadium. Maybe kids or pensioners attend free or something, I dunno. I find it hard to believe it's impossible.

weather was horrible. wet, cold, 22k probably lots of $19 tickets sold.

 

[Rooeys shorts]

Ross looked like he'd seen a ghost in the box after the final siren.

We haven't looked that s**t all year - willing to put it down as a mulligan but we'd want to look a hell of a lot better next week.

He still had that look heading down the race

It's a shocking timeslot for families... they should can the Sunday twilight permanently & lock in Thursday night footy.

We were going to head in but pulled the pin after the kids' junior footy (they needed a good hose down to get the mud off them- grounds around Melb were like Moorabbin circa 1984 yesterday).

The mass of rail works around, replacement buses & the likelihood a usual 45 min trip home would take 2 hours+ made it an easy decision.

I drove from Mt Martha with my 2 kids, hung around for kick on the ground until security had enough of us, dropped my dad off on the way back and got home to have my 9yo in bed at 8.45. Not ideal time slot for sure but we make it work from the peninsula.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Also- is sharman a weird unit or what?

When he was first picked years ago it was off the back of ho-hum form, pottering around in the 2's.

Same again here- the bloke clearly wont get out of bed for anything less than the brightlights of the AFL will he?!

He’s like Dustin Martin. Only gives a **** when it comes to big time moments. Cooper ‘Norm Smith’ Sharman has a nice ring to it

 

[Plugger35]

Interesting game to say the least- two teams coached by a probably the best coach in recent history (Clarkson), and the other, one of the best (Lyon). It was a game of chess.

It was also about as exciting as watching a game of chess.

Not one I will be watching the replay of on Kayo that's for sure.

 

[CursingFijian]

He is developing nicely , the way he is going he going to be a very valuable piece in our team.

A thing to bring up about yesterdays game , knowing our team is defensive orientated playing against a team which very average the way the game panned out could of been expected .
Our team is a work in progress and once we get a true marking target back in the team I feel we will not show how good we actually are.
King is going to be a game changer when he comes back knowing most teams will be King focused letting the players like Membery , Owens more opportunity and of course the small forwards will only benefit.

We have done very well having to make do with a make shift forward line , having Cordy playing as basically a decoy doesn't assist in our forward movement - having a leading big marking forward will change our style completely.

If King comes back and gets settled , the only spot where we have to sharpen up is our midfield - Steele has been no where near his best and Crouch and Ross are good toilers we still need the midfielder to really give us that spark - is it Owens , I don't know but Clark and Gresham have not really been game changing so it is going to be good to see what they do towards the pointy part of the season.

Imagine if we brought Caminiti in to play the sacrificial forward role and let King roam with his (hopefully) improved running capacity.

 

[True Believer]

weather was horrible. wet, cold, 22k probably lots of $19 tickets sold.

Probably didn't help that more than half of level three was closed off for renovations or construction or whatever.......

 

[Premium]

It was also about as exciting as watching a game of chess.

Not one I will be watching the replay of on Kayo that's for sure.

23-year low in ‘worst AFL game of all-time’​

this is the headline from the paper , may well be the case - but we get a real tall forward back who can mark and it would of totally changed the look of the game - Lyon done well to have us 6 and 2 with a make shift forward line.

and saying it's the worst game well maybe - but have they watched many of the WAFL games / but they would make that comment about the WAFL would they.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Disagree Owens was good. Old lumbering rucks are a thing of the past. Cordy is very ordinary.

Owens reminds me of a short paddy Ryder the way he leaps in the ruck contests. Freakish jump. Seems to do alright with the tap down too, purposefully directs it more often than not when he manages to get hands to it.

What helps is as a 17-18 year old he did spend a bit of time in the ruck after his growth spurt. Before they plonked him in the mid/wing I assume. So he’s actually done a bit of proper centrebounce ruck work I assume (albeit not against fully grown 200cm men)

"Small forward pocket" to prototype wingman: Mitch Owens' transformation

www.sandringhamdragons.com.au

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

He still had that look heading down the race

I drove from Mt Martha with my 2 kids, hung around for kick on the ground until security had enough of us, dropped my dad off on the way back and got home to have my 9yo in bed at 8.45. Not ideal time slot for sure but we make it work from the peninsula.

That's fine if you drove... we usually make it work too. Yesterday wasn't one of those days.

Parking around Marvel is a pain in the arse... we only drive in when I can pinch a mate's Medallion club parking pass.

Probably didn't help that more than half of level three was closed off for renovations or construction or whatever.......

Was it closed for work or because they expected a sub 25k crowd?

 

[Premium]

Imagine if we brought Caminiti in to play the sacrificial forward role and let King roam with his (hopefully) improved running capacity.

Hammer would be better than Cordy - by far.
Could they bring Hammer and King back this week - you never know what Lyon has up his sleeve - he would most probably created the eye sore of a game on Sunday to get the best out of them against the Crows.

 

[True Believer]

That's fine if you drove... we usually make it work too. Yesterday wasn't one of those days.

Parking around Marvel is a pain in the arse... we only drive in when I can pinch a mate's Medallion club parking pass.


Was it closed for work or because they expected a sub 25k crowd?

Not sure, I assumed it was closed off due to construction works, but I could be wrong, you know what they say about assuming.....

 

[AirWinmar]

OK I looked closer at centre clearances vs centre bounce attendances for the year so far.

23.5%: Owens (4 centre clearances from 17 attendances)
16.7%: Phillipou (2 from 12)
16.4%: Sinclair (9 from 55)
15.3%: Clark (9 from 59)
14.6%: Steele (12 from 82)
13.8%: Crouch (20 from 145)
12.1%: Ross (14 from 116)
9.2%: Gresham (6 from 65)
6.3%: Bytel (1 from 16)
5.2%: Marshall (8 from 155)
0%: Cordy (0 from 17), Windhager (0 from 15), Byrnes (0 from 2)

Also Wood has 4 centre clearances and Hill 1 despite neither of them attending a centre bounce, so I guess that's when they come in from the wing.

Conclusion? NFI.

Owens Pou and Sincs with Marshall rucking in the Center and we'll win 61% of centre clearances

 

[Plugger35]

23-year low in ‘worst AFL game of all-time’​

this is the headline from the paper , may well be the case - but we get a real tall forward back who can mark and it would of totally changed the look of the game - Lyon done well to have us 6 and 2 with a make shift forward line.

and saying it's the worst game well maybe - but have they watched many of the WAFL games / but they would make that comment about the WAFL would they.

I'm sure there has been worse WAFL games than that but they aren't shown on national tv and they don't get very big crowds to them these days either.

 

[True Believer]

That's fine if you drove... we usually make it work too. Yesterday wasn't one of those days.

Parking around Marvel is a pain in the arse... we only drive in when I can pinch a mate's Medallion club parking pass.


Was it closed for work or because they expected a sub 25k crowd?

Drove in from Mornington and picked up the brother from Cheltenham on the way in. Parked in Southern Cross/DFO car park. That's not too bad cost wise or access wise. My favourite cheap little car-park in Little Collins St got closed down in COVID. Was a hidden gem at nearly half the price and great access.

 

[Circus]

Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

doesn't have breakaway speed or great strength but he moves through heavy traffic like a ballet dancer. He's a very clever player who I expect to continue to get better as his confidence grows.

I'm not a stats person, they give raw data but data is only one component of information and that isn't knowledge, etc. To the eye Hunter is more effective for the team than some posters here acknowledge.

While it has often been said that Lyon has prescribed methods, certain game plans and stuff like that I think he and the coaches know the virtues of player flexibility and versatility, especially for the midfielders. I think a lot of players will be rotated through the midfield during this season to provide the best matchups for finals footy and being able to alter them if they're not working. They haven't been able to do it much to date due to lack of personnel and the need to establish the game plan.

Clark is just one of a number of players whose confidence and influence is growing, don't worry about his clearance stats, they don't tell the story.

 

[Premium]

Owens reminds me of a short paddy Ryder the way he leaps in the ruck contests. Freakish jump. Seems to do alright with the tap down too, purposefully directs it more often than not when he manages to get hands to it.

What helps is as a 17-18 year old he did spend a bit of time in the ruck after his growth spurt. Before they plonked him in the mid/wing I assume. So he’s actually done a bit of proper centrebounce ruck work I assume (albeit not against fully grown 200cm men)

"Small forward pocket" to prototype wingman: Mitch Owens' transformation

www.sandringhamdragons.com.au

I want him to play full time midfielder - he will be Dangerfield / Fyfe on steroids when given the role.
To me having him fill in as a ruck is like driving a Porsche through the bush when a Landrover would be all you need.
Maybe bring in the Hammer as the forward relieving ruck option.

Stocker - Howard - Wilkie
Sinclair - Battle - Milera
Wood - Steele - Byrne
Hill - Hammer - Higgins
Gresham - King - Membery

Marshall / Owens / Crouch

Clark - Ross - Paton - Phillipou - Butler - Sharman

I doubt Hammer will get a game - but boy the selectors are starting to get a tough time selecting the best 22

 

[Ads734]

Hunter Clark doesn't have breakaway speed or great strength but he moves through heavy traffic like a ballet dancer. He's a very clever player who I expect to continue to get better as his confidence grows.

I'm not a stats person, they give raw data but data is only one component of information and that isn't knowledge, etc. To the eye Hunter is more effective for the team than some posters here acknowledge.

While it has often been said that Lyon has prescribed methods, certain game plans and stuff like that I think he and the coaches know the virtues of player flexibility and versatility, especially for the midfielders. I think a lot of players will be rotated through the midfield during this season to provide the best matchups for finals footy and being able to alter them if they're not working. They haven't been able to do it much to date due to lack of personnel and the need to establish the game plan.

Clark is just one of a number of players whose confidence and influence is growing, don't worry about his clearance stats, they don't tell the story.

Don’t agree the strength aspect. He’s extreamly strong. Not just in the contest where he regularly breaks tackles and gets his hands or legs free but also in marking contests. Has genuinely sticky mits.

 

[Ads734]

I want him to play full time midfielder - he will be Dangerfield / Fyfe on steroids when given the role.
To me having him fill in as a ruck is like driving a Porsche through the bush when a Landrover would be all you need.
Maybe bring in the Hammer as the forward relieving ruck option.

Stocker - Howard - Wilkie
Sinclair - Battle - Milera
Wood - Steele - Byrne
Hill - Hammer - Higgins
Gresham - King - Membery

Marshall / Owens / Crouch

Clark - Ross - Paton - Phillipou - Butler - Sharman

I doubt Hammer will get a game - but boy the selectors are starting to get a tough time selecting the best 22

To an extent I understand your point. Here’s my counter.

As a second ruck atm often he is going up against other quasi type mid/rucks.

Secondly, he’s got an incredible ability to burst onto a loose ball so he essentially acts as another kid anyways and his tackling is already elite. To me it essentially allows him to develop as a mid without taking up a midfield spot. Big win. Just quietly nothing brings a bigger smile to my face(excluding the Pou) when Chito kicks a goal and does that point to the cheer squad with the cheeky smile. What a legend.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I want him to play full time midfielder - he will be Dangerfield / Fyfe on steroids when given the role.
To me having him fill in as a ruck is like driving a Porsche through the bush when a Landrover would be all you need.
Maybe bring in the Hammer as the forward relieving ruck option.

Stocker - Howard - Wilkie
Sinclair - Battle - Milera
Wood - Steele - Byrne
Hill - Hammer - Higgins
Gresham - King - Membery

Marshall / Owens / Crouch

Clark - Ross - Paton - Phillipou - Butler - Sharman

I doubt Hammer will get a game - but boy the selectors are starting to get a tough time selecting the best 22

Maybe he doesn’t do the centre bounce ones but I think him keeping up with his ruck craft will be a weapon and a half in the forward line stoppages. Imagine him leaping over an equally sized opponent in the ruck or ripping it out himself and kicking goals like what tom Hawkins does. Teams will shit themselves at forward stoppages since they know he’s a chance to kick goals or create them every time

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

To an extent I understand your point. Here’s my counter.

As a second ruck atm often he is going up against other quasi type mid/rucks.

Secondly, he’s got an incredible ability to burst onto a loose ball so he essentially acts as another kid anyways and his tackling is already elite. To me it essentially allows him to develop as a mid without taking up a midfield spot. Big win. Just quietly nothing brings a bigger smile to my face(excluding the Pou) when Chito kicks a goal and does that point to the cheer squad with the cheeky smile. What a legend.

He might compete with Rowan Marshall for best smile in the team