Autopsy Round 9, 2023 : Hawks burnt by Demons

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[hawkman]

Cant say I noticed the umpiring being poor today, other than the Oliver tap from Newcombe. Last week was horrendous though

Can't really complain about umpiring when Melbourne had only 5 free kicks to 3/4 time

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Just got home from the footy, it was a long way to go to watch that rubbish in the first half. Obviously much better in the second but the whole time I was there I just couldn't get my head around Kozi being the late in instead of Rama especially after his huge confidence getting game last week at Box Hill. Lots of positives today against first class opposition. That was my first time seeing a few in the flesh and I've gotta say that Mitchell is super impressive, Mackenzie and Weddle will be seriously good and big Meeky has a crack and is quite versatile for his mammoth build and certainly cracks in.

I don’t think we wanted to sacrifice Ramma to Gawn and Grundy and ruin any belief that he had built after probably getting a reality check after his first game.

We instead thought Kosi could just compete as the second ruck as he’d done so last year.

 

[Rocket72]

For mine the biggest difference between the two teams was their forwards ability to compete every time the ball went forward. And our inability to do the same.

Unless we get a near perfect entry forward we don’t look like scoring. Which good teams just don’t allow due to their defensive pressure.

Whereas the dees knew they just had to get the ball forward and their forwards would score or lock the ball in and give them time to set up for repeat entries.

It’s easy to look at the inside 50 numbers and assume our forwards didn’t get the chance to compete. But our inside 50 numbers are so low because our forwards don’t compete.

We often give them the first look at the ball by winning the centre clearances but they fail to win or neutralise the ball. Resulting in it going up the other end. As well as offering no targets to move the ball out of our d50 leading to many repeat entries and the lopsided inside 50 counts we are seeing.

How does this work?:

“It’s easy to look at the inside 50 numbers and assume our forwards didn’t get the chance to compete. But our inside 50 numbers are so low because our forwards don’t compete.”

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Firstly - Mitchell was excellent today. He has cemented his spot and hopefully this breakout game gives him some confidence for the rest of the season and beyond.

Great to see Weddle and Mackenzie kick their first goals. Mackenzie is so clean at ground level, he just needs to adjust fully to the pace.

Day, Newcombe, Nash, Meek and Sicily all battled hard and played well.

As for the actual game:

That was a fairly terrible performance for all bar the third quarter. The first half in particular was probably the worst football we've played all season. There were just so many poor, unforced, skill errors and brain farts - in, ironically (or perhaps un-ironically), Frost's milestone game.

It was not unexpected to lose by that margin against Melbourne, who really played hard in the first half (and then relaxed for the rest of the game), but the most disappointing thing is how poor and unorganised our backline has looked.

It is simply unacceptable how poor the entire unit has been this season. Simpson and Mitchell need to do something ASAP.

Right now it's looking like bringing in a novice assistant to immediately take over a fairly inexperienced backline was not a good idea.

Simpson was a great player, and I'm sure he can impart some wisdom and knowledge based on his playing days to the group, but I think we really should have an experienced coach overseeing our backline.

Hopefully it's growing pains, but I'm not convinced. We just appear to be completely out of our depth back there.

I love Wingard, but his body has let him down far too often. He is not up to it right now, so he is playing like he knows his calves will give out at any moment. I hate saying it because I have been a big believer and defender of him, but we can't have both Wingard and Breust in the same side.

Morrison is simply not good enough. Time for him to be dropped, I'd prefer Bramble get a game over him on the wing, though both options are fairly unappealing.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Final Siren tells me,

Hawthorn 11 players under 50 games (Dees 4).
Hawthorn 5 players 50-99 games (Dees 6).
Hawthorn 3 players 100-149 games (Dees 4)
Hawthorn 4 players 150+ games (Dees 9).

The divide in experience is at the extremes.

When we’re putting out a side with 11 players in the 50-99 game zone and only 5 players in the under 50 group, I’d expect us to be a different proposition.

 

[H00t]

Newcombe flies under the radar and is the only bloke that makes us look even remotely likely to score with the ball in hand. He's an absolute star and when we're a better side he'll obviously be our best player. Love Day, but Newc is the one that'll cause the damage.

Got to admit this will be an interesting watch over the coming years. I think our forwards are currently playing to Newk’s strengths more than Day’s.

Newk has insane body strength to get a handball to a player in space and a long leg to kick it 50-60m which is advantaging our forwards currently as they are all trying to get out the back.

When we have forwards who come at the ball carrier, though, I expect Day’s kicking to really come to the fore as he is a lot better at weighting kicks to advantage and super quick to work out where to kick it.

Duke will always have his body strength over Day but I hope Day will at least close that gap a little.

Either way they will be great players for us in the long run.

 

[natio]

Weddle. Liking what this kid brings. Thought he did some good things today, worked into the game. Almost 400m gained. Loved his goal

He has slowly been building with each game. He is going to have at least one game this season that will make people sit up and notice.

 

[H00t]

How does this work?:

“It’s easy to look at the inside 50 numbers and assume our forwards didn’t get the chance to compete. But our inside 50 numbers are so low because our forwards don’t compete.”

Our forwards get the chance to compete every time the ball is near them compared to just when it’s inside the forward 50.

We turn the ball over a lot because our forwards can’t neutralise or win most contests they compete at. As such the ball quickly goes down the other end preventing any chance of us locking the ball in by setting up behind the ball and getting repeat inside 50’s which gives our forwards more opportunities.

It’s also why we get the ball locked into our defensive 50 because we can’t rely on a long kick down the line to a pack and then reset because the opposition win the ball back more often than not and eventually score from these opportunities.

If our forwards win more contests in between the arcs they will get more chances inside 50.

 

[hawkinoz]

I don’t think we wanted to sacrifice Ramma to Gawn and Grundy and ruin any belief that he had built after probably getting a reality check after his first game.

We instead thought Kosi could just compete as the second ruck as he’d done so last year.

I am not sure this is such a big deal.

Jack Watts couldn't handle it 1.5 decades back, doesn't mean every young one won't. There is no indication of Rama being soft and better to learn some hard lessons upfront.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I am not sure this is such a big deal.

Jack Watts couldn't handle it 1.5 decades back, doesn't mean every young one won't. There is no indication of Rama being soft and better to learn some hard lessons upfront.

What has being soft got to do with not wanting to have him get eaten alive by Gawn/Grundy?

It’s about developing and building belief in a raw commodity. You don’t screw with that if you don’t have to.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Weddle. Liking what this kid brings. Thought he did some good things today, worked into the game. Almost 400m gained. Loved his goal

He has slowly been building with each game. He is going to have at least one game this season that will make people sit up and notice.

He had a few soft efforts that I imagine will be pointed out to him in the review. Hopefully he becomes a bit more confident and they get erased from his game quickly.

 

[KermitJagger]

Got to admit this will be an interesting watch over the coming years. I think our forwards are currently playing to Newk’s strengths more than Day’s.

Newk has insane body strength to get a handball to a player in space and a long leg to kick it 50-60m which is advantaging our forwards currently as they are all trying to get out the back.

When we have forwards who come at the ball carrier, though, I expect Day’s kicking to really come to the fore as he is a lot better at weighting kicks to advantage and super quick to work out where to kick it.

Duke will always have his body strength over Day but I hope Day will at least close that gap a little.

Either way they will be great players for us in the long run.

Idk, I think everyone severely underrates Newcombe as a ball user. He's our best kicking inside mid by a fair margin. The 5th highest kicking efficiency of any mid averaging over 10 contested possessions a game. Went at 85% today. He doesn't just bang it on the boot.

 

[Rowie6]

I have just arrived home from the football and read through 18 pages of this after game diagnosis and someone I don’t think gets enough criticism is Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

25

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

he runs all day and tries his heart out!
But he lacks impact and I feel his major issue is he doesn’t have a gear change he is always in third gear and I hate to say it but I cannot see him ever being any better than he is right now !
Not sure where he goes from here and Wee Little Baby Seamus is looking way the better prospect after being on the Re-Rookie list .
I hope I am not being to harsh!
There are others that probably deserve more criticism but that has already been observed on this forum!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rocket72]

I have just arrived home from the football and read through 18 pages of this after game diagnosis and someone I don’t think gets enough criticism is Dylan Moore he runs all day and tries his heart out!
But he lacks impact and I feel his major issue is he doesn’t have a gear change he is always in third gear and I hate to say it but I cannot see him ever being any better than he is right now !
Not sure where he goes from here and Wee Little Baby Seamus is looking way the better prospect after being on the Re-Rookie list .
I hope I am not being to harsh!
There are others that probably deserve more criticism but that has already been observed on this forum!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

He’s our only forward who is élite statistically so he gets a lot of attention. He’s learning to deal with it and is still remaining handy

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

I have just arrived home from the football and read through 18 pages of this after game diagnosis and someone I don’t think gets enough criticism is Dylan Moore he runs all day and tries his heart out!
But he lacks impact and I feel his major issue is he doesn’t have a gear change he is always in third gear and I hate to say it but I cannot see him ever being any better than he is right now !
Not sure where he goes from here and Wee Little Baby Seamus is looking way the better prospect after being on the Re-Rookie list .
I hope I am not being to harsh!
There are others that probably deserve more criticism but that has already been observed on this forum!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yes he has had a poor last month or so but opposition only really plan seriously for two of our forwards - Lewis and Moore

He will come again, he is going through a bit of a rough patch at present

 

[Accipiter]

Yes he has had a poor last month or so but opposition only really plan seriously for two of our forwards - Lewis and Moore

He will come again, he is going through a bit of a rough patch at present

And of course he demands a very good opposition defender, which provides opportunities for our other small forwards (or at least when we develop the new breed of small forwards).

 

[Stottzy]

First half I had my head in my hands and doubting everything. But that 3rd quarter.... phoaw!!!!

We are young, we're rebuilding. I keep reminding myself, "This is the year we had to have". We've got some great talent.

And Will Day.... oh my goodness!! What a player!!! Captain material!!!

 

[theiaofseed]

7.6 to 10.8 after quarter time and only lost the second half by 9 points.

Huge step in the right direction of staying in the game and stopping the bleeding which is something we've struggled with this year.

 

[Lickmesocks]

What has being soft got to do with not wanting to have him get eaten alive by Gawn/Grundy?

It’s about developing and building belief in a raw commodity. You don’t screw with that if you don’t have to.

Ramma is eating 6 main meals a day to get his body somewhere near ready to compete at AFL level .

Until then let’s leave him at Box Hill and not kill him.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Cant say I noticed the umpiring being poor today, other than the Oliver tap from Newcombe. Last week was horrendous though

yeah they seemed to not be paying much either way, which is fine as long as it appears consistent (and it seemed more consistent than usual)

 

[Dr.J]

You build a team around its spine
Right now we have Day in the middle and Lewis up forward.

That’s it

Compare that to all the Top 8 teams and there’s a stark difference

 

[Rowie6]

Yes he has had a poor last month or so but opposition only really plan seriously for two of our forwards - Lewis and Moore

He will come again, he is going through a bit of a rough patch at present

Sorry I cannot see it !
I think he has been found out, I just hope I am wrong?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[OnTheRocks]

You can add Hardwick to the list of experienced players who are turnover maestros.
Every week he tries ridiculously ambitious 50 meter bullet passes that miss the target or go straight to the opposition.
There were at least two today that resulted in Melbourne goals.
The other maestros have been named several times. Hardwick always seems to get a pass for some reason.
What hurts most is that these are our most experienced players who should be at their peak not making the same old mistakes week in week out.


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Speaking of missing the target.....

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Can't really complain about umpiring when Melbourne had only 5 free kicks to 3/4 time

It was 11-5 frees into the last. Hardly one-sided given Melbourne played the man all day and tried to intimate. It as a credit to our boys they played the game with their heads up.

Umps missed really obvious frees which is the issue. There was passages of play where thered be 3 or 4 extremely obvious frees. 1st missed, ok, benefit of the doubt. Second, well maybe... 3 and 4 in the space of a couple of seconds? Now ya taking the proverbial

 

[peetoo]

You build a team around its spine
Right now we have Day in the middle and Lewis up forward.

That’s it

Compare that to all the Top 8 teams and there’s a stark difference

Melbournes reserves fwd line is better than ours right now. Love Ward but van rooyen was picked later