Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[geoffjennings79]

Neighbors confirm RH picking up CC at 7.30am on the 19th. Phone records prove they travelled via Heyfield / Licola up to Howitt High Plains to where they camped in the 19th.

Thanks, didn't realise that, answers my question below. But still contradicts what the shooter is saying, i.e. they were camped at Wonnangatta for 2 days.

That seems correct though, right? But they left early morning. Question now is, did they camp elsewhere (Howitt per Lady O's quote?) on the 19th, or did they go straight to Wonnangatta and just tell friends/family they were at Howitt?

 

[geoffjennings79]

This is the same witness (blackberry sprayer):
Hours later, as he phoned his boss about 5pm, Williams said he saw a drone flying overhead.
He waved as it flew over him, filming, and it circled several times before flying over nearby campsites, describing it as rude.
"You're going there to have a peaceful camp and somebody's flying a drone over top of you," he said.
He watched it for 35 or 40 minutes before it continued on out of sight."

Both could still be valid though, but like the shooter's comment, there's inconsistency/confusion?

 

[Zidane98]

Thanks, didn't realise that, answers my question below. But still contradicts what the shooter is saying, i.e. they were camped at Wonnangatta for 2 days.

You are talking a 6 hour drive from Pakenham to Howitt High Plains to Wonnangatta so it's possible but it was stated that RH/CC had camped on Howitt High Plains prior to arriving at Wonnangatta.


There is reception on Howitt High Plains so I believe the police would have been able to establish this too.



Witness said he saw RH at "Bucks Camp" around lunch time on the 20th. I can't locate a "Bucks Camp" in the high country on a map myself.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

That was the original narrative, but the shooter's comment now contradicts that. Wasn't the 20th story confirmed by friends who were told that by RH? For whatever reason, RH may not have been truthful with his friends. Not sure why that would be the case, but if the shooter is correct, why would RH lie?

(It's going to be a long week btw, if today's confusion is any guide!)

I think it’s likely most of these “witnesses” can’t offer anything much. One said RH parked close to other campers - but these “other campers” haven’t come forward. No one saw the campsite on fire and it wasn’t even discovered for a few days. Another said he heard a shot at dawn, but that doesn’t fit with the vehicle leaving the area around midnight. Most of these statements will just muddy the waters. Witnesses, especially after all this time, are notoriously unreliable.

 

[geoffjennings79]

You are talking a 6 hour drive from Pakenham to Howitt High Plains to Wonnangatta so it's possible but it was stated that RH/CC had camped on Howitt High Plains prior to arriving at Wonnangatta.


There is reception on Howitt High Plains so I believe the police would have been able to establish this too.



Witness said he saw RH at "Bucks Camp" around lunch time on the 20th. I can't locate a "Bucks Camp" in the high country on a map myself.

Thanks for that, not familiar with the distances myself. I wasn't suggesting they drove from Howitt to Wonnangatta and back on the 19th, btw. But the shooter implies they were camped at Wonnangatta on the 19th AND 20th - or at least what is being attributed to him does.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

That seems correct though, right? But they left early morning. Question now is, did they camp elsewhere (Howitt per Lady O's quote?) on the 19th, or did they go straight to Wonnangatta and just tell friends/family they were at Howitt?

Why would they do that?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Thanks, didn't realise that, answers my question below. But still contradicts what the shooter is saying, i.e. they were camped at Wonnangatta for 2 days.

Then the shooter is wrong

 

[geoffjennings79]

Why would they do that?

Your quess is as good as mine. But didn't his friends know they were camping regularly together, but his wife and family didn't? Not out of the realms of possibility surely?

Anyway Zidane has cleared it up with the confirmation of phone records.

 

[Zidane98]

I think it’s likely most of these “witnesses” can’t offer anything much. One said RH parked close to other campers - but these “other campers” haven’t come forward. No one saw the campsite on fire and it wasn’t even discovered for a few days. Another said he heard a shot at dawn, but that doesn’t fit with the vehicle leaving the area around midnight. Most of these statements will just muddy the waters. Witnesses, especially after all this time, are notoriously unreliable.

The shot to fit the timeline must have been between approx 7.30pm & 10pm. I didn't realise that the shot heard was heard at dawn. After all he got himself on camera @ Hotham that was about 1 and a half hours from the burial location @ Providence Spur track which was a further 2.5 - 3 hours from Abbeyard gate (witnesses have him hear at night).


We have to presume the police have positively identified the other campers in the white ute to rule them out of involvement.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Then the shooter is wrong

But you just said witnesses are unreliable? Maybe everyone else is wrong, and RH has hacked his phone pings from Howitt?!

 

[Zidane98]

Can anyone locate "Bucks Camp" in the general area? I can't.

 

[Awakening]

Post in thread 'Wonnangatta - Russell Hill & Carol Clay vanish *Pilot Greg Lynn charged with murder'
Unsolved - Wonnangatta - Russell Hill & Carol Clay vanish *Pilot Greg Lynn charged with murder

Mention of white dual cab Ute here by Kurve in the early days:

On rogue shooters and a mystery white ute.

Detective says police considered possibility 'rogue shooters' killed missing Victorian High Country pair​

The detective leading the investigation into the disappearance of two people in the Victorian High Country says police have considered whether the pair were harmed by "rogue shooters."
www.abc.net.au

“Mystery white ute still to be identified
Victoria Police are appealing for the public to help them identify a white dual cab ute that was seen in the Wonnangatta Valley on March 19, the night before Mr Hill last made contact with friends.

Detective Inspector Stamper said the ute was seen parked close to a long-drop toilet and a suspension bridge over the Wonnangatta River at the Wonnangatta campsite and the occupants of the car could have been camping there.

"We are not suggesting that these people are suspects in this investigation, it is just that we can't eliminate them at the moment," he said.”

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I don’t see any relevance of alleged sightings of the couple before the 20th, when it’s been established that this is when they arrived at Wonnangatta. They weren’t murdered before then. Anything they supposedly did or anywhere they might have been earlier doesn’t tell us anything about the 20th and thereafter.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Can anyone locate "Bucks Camp" in the general area? I can't.

Is it possibly just a name used by regular visitors, or the blackberry sprayer and his associates, so not on any maps? Or maybe media have misquoted the name? (Certainly not coming up on online searches.)

 

[Zidane98]

Is it possibly just a name used by regular visitors, or the blackberry sprayer and his associates, so not on any maps? Or maybe media have misquoted the name? (Certainly not coming up on online searches.)

Considering it was given in evidence that would be pretty poor if it was. Perhaps the media got it wrong. Would be interesting to see where that sighting was in relation to Wonnangatta @ lunch time on the 20th.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

But you just said witnesses are unreliable? Maybe everyone else is wrong, and RH has hacked his phone pings from Howitt?!

He’s not even a witness. He heard something, sometime. It could have been a branch falling from a tree. They make a CRACK!

 

[geoffjennings79]

I don’t see any relevance of alleged sightings of the couple before the 20th, when it’s been established that this is when they arrived at Wonnangatta. They weren’t murdered before then. Anything they supposedly did or anywhere they might have been earlier doesn’t tell us anything about the 20th and thereafter.

Only if they were already at Wonnangatta on the 19th, surely that could be relevant? Seems implausible and unlikely, but if they had contact with GL before the 19th could be important. As is the claim by the shooter and his mate that RH parked his ute right up next to GL's car. Had they crossed paths before in say, an earlier dispute over the same campsite?

 

[geoffjennings79]

He’s not even a witness. He heard something, sometime. It could have been a branch falling from a tree. They make a CRACK!

I was referring to the shooter (and his mate) following RH in his ute to the campsite - which they say was the day before the the shooter saw them again returning from viewing a gravesite the NEXT day. Nothing to do with gunshot.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Only if they were already at Wonnangatta on the 19th, surely that could be relevant? Seems implausible and unlikely, but if they had contact with GL before the 19th could be important. As is the claim by the shooter and his mate that RH parked his ute right up next to GL's car. Had they crossed paths before in say, an earlier dispute over the same campsite?

We know they weren’t there until the 20th. Not sure what difference any of the rest makes. It’s GL’s movements that need to be examined, not the victims’.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I was referring to the shooter (and his mate) following RH in his ute to the campsite - which they say was the day before they the shooter saw them again returning from viewing a gravesite the NEXT day. Nothing to do with gunshot.

Which day was that? I’d say they saw someone else. Some other time. Maybe another older couple of campers. Honest mistake. It doesn’t fit. They probably think they have a clear memory. But if you’re not actively looking for something you don’t really notice these things. It’s very easy to misremember.

 

[Awakening]

With no idea when this image was taken, it appears to show the car the police were looking for as connected to potential witnesses on the night before Russell and Carol showed up. I've enlarged the image and there's what might be a dark blue 4WD, the back end obscured by trees.

View attachment 1298282

Gah, I don’t know how to share this post from Kurve with photo of cars.

Try this;

 

[geoffjennings79]

We know they weren’t there until the 20th. Not sure what difference any of the rest makes. It’s GL’s movements that need to be examined, not the victims’.

Which is what I alluded to in the post you quoted - prior contact. Anyway, whatever.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Which day was that? I’d say they saw someone else. Some other time. Maybe another older couple of campers. Honest mistake. It doesn’t fit. They probably think they have a clear memory. But if you’re not actively looking for something you don’t really notice these things. It’s very easy to misremember.

It's in the quote in several posts on page 168 from media articles today:

Melbourne campers seen before alleged murder as court hears of odd drone and gunshot

www.9news.com.au

 

[Kurve]

My understanding is that you can only postpone a subpoena for health reasons. If you receive a subpoena to court, you go, regardless of what else you have on at the time.

Covid?

 

[Kurve]

Yeah that drone could have been anyones.


Where is "Bucks Camp" located? That may be on the trip from Howitt High Plains to Wonnangatta.

The blackberry worker might have a nothing burger.

The third witness to be called on Monday, Robert Williams told the court he was “definitely” sure he saw Mr Hill and Ms Clay in the Wonnangatta Valley on March 19 in a white Toyota Landcruiser.

Under questioning by Mr Lynn’s lawyer, Dermot Dann KC, Mr Williams conceded he thought it was “rude”, saying people went to the area for a “peaceful camp”.

He did not know who was piloting the drone.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/carol-clay-and-russell-hill-murder-allegations-against-pilot-gregory-lynn-to-be-revealed/news-story/c92aa7172053848e40fd506feb6ffdd8