Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Kurve]

Must have been something like that. Were the bodies inside at that stage? Weren't they found to have been burnt?

Or Lynn was in the tent potentially leaving his DNA in it imo, rummaging around looking for anything that might have taken an image of him. Phones, drone, cameras etc.

He may have missed the phone in Russell's pocket, which could have been a spare.

 

[Terrafirma]

Let's wait and hear what really happened eh?

Why? What's wrong with an opinion?

 

[Terrafirma]

I want to know why he burned down the campsite.

I would think evidence destruction etc. Also he used their sleeping bags to cart the bodies away. Blood splatter? Def evidence he loves burning things. Bodies as well

 

[Terrafirma]

Where did you get this information from?

TIA.

I think High Country was in the court today perhaps this was released that way? No surprise 1st jury dismissed to me was always on the cards. Trying to cater for 14 people would be hard. Also the judge gave them all plenty of reasons to not want to be on the jury.

 

[highcountry]

I was in court 3 today. The Victorian Supreme Court was built in 1884 and as you’d expect the sense of history is deeply entrenched in the dark wood panelling. The theatrics of the room speak to the gravity of the proceedings. Ned Kelly was convicted in the same court back in 1880. Just prior to the building of the current day court.

No matter the bravado of a defendant - all must feel, to varying degrees, the burden they are up against - being the full weight of the crown.

Justice Michael Croucher, decked out in his official robes, sat front and centre on what is almost a high altar of dark polished wood.

Like the court he looks old school, but tone and manner of speech is softer than expected. He appears to be a dignified, fair-minded jurist who surprisingly has a sense of humour that will help bring some levity to what will be rigorous 6 weeks.

He appeared conscious of the gravity of the proceedings on family and friends of both the victims the accused. In his closing remarks he make a light hearted comment and felt obligated to apologise for his black humour adding words to the effect … this is how we get through such dark matters.

Through the proceedings Lynn had been seated behind his lawyers under the visitors galley and out of sight of all of us.

At the end of proceedings Lynn became visible as he was lead from the court. He looked up to the gallery, obviously looking for someone. When he saw is wife Melanie, the guard let him pause momentarily so he could beckon to her with an open wave. It was about 30 seconds before she realised he was waving to her. There was an excited gasp as she recognised him and they exchanged warm expressions.

They both seemed genuinely excited to see each other and have this encounter. Based on this observation alone, she would appear to be firmly supporting her husband.

Although Lynn was only visable for a minute or so his demeanour seemed composed and relaxed. And to the point of jovial after he sighted his wife. Neatly presented but overly sharp, he seemed smaller and more famished than expected. However being an old courtroom, the visitors gallery sits high and long way from the court floor so it was hard to decern too much.

A new jury of 15 will be selected on Monday. The one today being dismissed on technical grounds.

Opening statements will be on Tuesday.

And then we are into it.

 

[Kurve]

The first thing I found on searching for gunshot wounds and pattern injury in relation to the piece of Carol's skull found 20+m away from the campsite.

I might as well post it in here, it will probably get some discussion in court.

Entrance wounds into skull bone typically produces beveling, or coning, of the bone at the surface, inward into bone at the entrance to the skull and outward away from the weapon on the inner table of the skull. In thin areas such as the temple, this may not be observed. Sternum, iliac crest, scapula, or rib may show similar features. These observations may permit determination of the direction of fire. A small, dense projectile may "punch out" a rounded portion of cranium, while a larger projectile may produce circumferential fractures that radiate outward from the point of entrance. (Jandial et al, 2008) (Berryman, 2019)

A bullet entering the cranial cavity begins to expend energy, but the closed cranium cannot expand, so the energy may be dissipated by fracturing of bone. Both radiating and concentric fracturing may occur. Greater energy imparts more force and more complex fracturing. A circular defect is formed, and the plug of bone that occupied this defect fragments and is carried into the cranial cavity. Bullet caliber is difficult to discern from this defect, even when round and well-defined. (Berryman, 2019)

FIREARMS TUTORIAL

Page contains images and text for pathology education

webpath.med.utah.edu

 

[Terrafirma]

I was in court 3 today. The Victorian Supreme Court was built in 1884 and as you’d expect the sense of history is deeply entrenched in the dark wood panelling. The theatrics of the room speak to the gravity of the proceedings. Ned Kelly was convicted in the same court back in 1880. Just prior to the building of the current day court.

No matter the bravado of a defendant - all must feel, to varying degrees, the burden they are up against - being the full weight of the crown.

Justice Michael Croucher, decked out in his official robes, sat front and centre on what is almost a high altar of dark polished wood.

Like the court he looks old school, but tone and manner of speech is softer than expected. He appears to be a dignified, fair-minded jurist who surprisingly has a sense of humour that will help bring some levity to what will be rigorous 6 weeks.

He appeared conscious of the gravity of the proceedings on family and friends of both the victims the accused. In his closing remarks he make a light hearted comment and felt obligated to apologise for his black humour adding words to the effect … this is how we get through such dark matters.

Through the proceedings Lynn had been seated behind his lawyers under the visitors galley and out of sight of all of us.

At the end of proceedings Lynn became visible as he was lead from the court. He looked up to the gallery, obviously looking for someone. When he saw is wife Melanie, the guard let him pause momentarily so he could beckon to her with an open wave. It was about 30 seconds behind she realised he was waving to her. There was an excited gasp as she recognised him and they exchanged warm expressions.

They both seemed genuinely excited to see each other and have this encounter. Based on this observation alone, she would appear to be firmly supporting her husband.

Although Lynn was only viable for a minute or so his demeanour seemed composed and relaxed. And to the point of jovial after he sighted his wife. Neatly presented but overly sharp, he seemed smaller and more famished than expected. However being an old courtroom, the visitors gallery sits high and long way from the court floor so it was hard to decern too much.

A new jury of 15 will be selected on Monday. The one today being dismissed on technical grounds.

Opening statements will be on Tuesday.

And then we are into it.

Thanks for that HC that certainly paints a picture. Some information came back as to why some of the Jurors wanted off was that mentioned in court today?

 

[BFew]

A new jury of 15 will be selected on Monday. The one today being dismissed on technical grounds.

Did the magistrate go into any detail on what these technical grounds were?

 

[Pamcake1]

Must have been something like that. Were the bodies inside at that stage? Weren't they found to have been burnt?

Unlikely to have been burnt at the campsite as: there was a very small window of time between the murders and him leaving possibly max 4 hours and in that time he had to put the bodies in the trailer.

 

[Terrafirma]

Unlikely to have been burnt at the campsite as: there was a very small window of time between the murders and him leaving possibly max 4 hours and in that time he had to put the bodies in the trailer.

Yeah you couldn't burn the bodies and then move them within the time frame he was heard leaving the area. They were transported to the burial site via their sleeping bags and then dumped. We know they were burned there but we don't know if he came back and burned them later.? Off course lot's of speculation about did he give up burial site or was he tracked?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Hopefully we’ll find out the answers to all these questions very soon.

 

[Pamcake1]

Yeah you couldn't burn the bodies and then move them within the time frame he was heard leaving the area. They were transported to the burial site via their sleeping bags and then dumped. We know they were burned there but we don't know if he came back and burned them later.? Off course lot's of speculation about did he give up burial site or was he tracked?

I thought that he came back the second time after burning them to chop up the ashes and see if he had to do more to destroy the evidence. I also thought that was reported forensically at the commital.

 

[GrayRanga]

I'm very confident that this is an accurate if not paraphrased account of the transcript to the point that i'm considering deleting these posts, whether Lynn's claims in the interview are at all accurate is another story,

That's his story that he probably won't have to defend under oath.

Most successful storytellers stick very close to the truth; the drone, taking of the camp site. the altercation and Hill not backing down are probably all correct.

The accused is a sports shooter, hunter and a member of Gun Clubs; he would be well versed in firearm best practice, safety rules and regulations.

I can't remember any evidence to date that he was proficient in unarmed combat especially against a tough manual labourer (albeit older) who had probably been involved in a few work site or pub scraps

Firearm safety rules and best practice is you don't carry a loaded gun in a vehicle even if it switched to safe.

Did the accused back down from the altercation in front of Clay and later do a bit of target practice with a rifle.

Only two changes to his story, that the loaded shotgun went off and his successful self defence with a knife

 

[Terrafirma]

I'm not sure how Carol's skull ended up 20m+ away from their campsite, especially if that missing mirror was a part of it all, being knocked off in a scuffle or bullet damaged, it's on the inside of the campsite in a tight space.

Wasn't her whole skull Kurve just a portion of which makes sense via shotgun blast

 

[Terrafirma]

That's his story that he probably won't have to defend under oath.

Most successful storytellers stick very close to the truth; the drone, taking of the camp site. the altercation and Hill not backing down are probably all correct.

The accused is a sports shooter, hunter and a member of Gun Clubs; he would be well versed in firearm best practice, safety rules and regulations.

I can't remember any evidence to date that he was proficient in unarmed combat especially against a tough manual labourer (albeit older) who had probably been involved in a few work site or pub scraps

Firearm safety rules and best practice is you don't carry a loaded gun in a vehicle even if it switched to safe.

Did the accused back down from the altercation in front of Clay and later do a bit of target practice with a rifle.

Only two changes to his story, that the loaded shotgun went off and his successful self defence with a knife

The accused might be well versed with guns and safety as you say however it doesn't explain why his defense attorney might state Lynn approached the Hill's campsite with a loaded gun that accidentally went off in a persuant struggle with Russell Hill and struck Carol Clay? This was I believed put forward by Lynn's attorney in one the pre hearings.

 

[Kurve]

Wasn't her whole skull Kurve just a portion of which makes sense via shotgun blast

Yeh I know but she was presumably in between the ute and tent. I accept that it might have flipped up that far, or maybe a bird of a bush rat found and moved it.

The prosecution might not even present a scenario of how it all unfolded but we'll see.

I'm not convinced there isn't two crime scenes yet.

 

[Terrafirma]

Yeh I know but she was presumably in between the ute and tent. I accept that it might have flipped up that far, or maybe a bird of a bush rat found and moved it.

The prosecution might not even present a scenario of how it all unfolded but we'll see.

I'm not convinced there isn't two crime scenes yet.

Agreed. Between ute and tent etc. Yeah we might not hear? Interesting theory on 2 x crime scenes? What are you suggesting might have happened?

 

[Kurve]

Agreed. Between ute and tent etc. Yeah we might not hear? Interesting theory on 2 x crime scenes? What are you suggesting might have happened?

I've always wondered if there was two crime scenes but it seemed a bit more possible after Lynn's lawyer made suggestions about what happened and the cops said they were going back to Wonnangatta for a further search. Like they realised they may have missed something.

Lynn's lawyer said if I remember this correctly, that there was an earlier incident Lynn admitted having with Russell indicating two encounters.

 

[Badd0g]

Lynn's lawyer said if I remember this correctly, that there was an earlier incident Lynn admitted having with Russell indicating two encounters.

Not sure on the 2 crime scenes part but its possible the other encounter could have occurred up on the high plains - it was reported that Russell and Carol spent the night prior to their murders (19th) up there and GL had allegedly been in the area for a couple of days. It's spectacular country that is prime for drone footage.

I have wondered for some time if the drone was the cause of "words" up there perhaps, and then Russell finds the same person camped in "his" spot the following day when they head down into the valley. A second drone incident could have been the trigger (pardon the pun) for an altercation on 20th. All MOHI of course

 

[Badd0g]

The prosecution might not even present a scenario of how it all unfolded but we'll see.

I think they would have to, in order to use the the pathology and ballistics results.

 

[Badd0g]

I was in court 3 today. The Victorian Supreme Court was built in 1884 and as you’d expect the sense of history is deeply entrenched in the dark wood panelling. The theatrics of the room speak to the gravity of the proceedings. Ned Kelly was convicted in the same court back in 1880. Just prior to the building of the current day court.

Thanks for the wrap up HC, it's quite the imposing environment, isn't it?

 

[revo333]

I don't mind people discussing their theories as long as the discussions stick to the facts and we don't end up with 2-3 pages of fantasy speculation like it's a script for a tv show.

 

[highcountry]

Did the magistrate go into any detail on what these technical grounds

 

[highcountry]

It’s not correct to refer to bodies being found.

The police were careful to use the term human remains.

 

[Badd0g]

The accused might be well versed with guns and safety as you say however it doesn't explain why his defense attorney might state Lynn approached the Hill's campsite with a loaded gun that accidentally went off in a persuant struggle with Russell Hill and struck Carol Clay? This was I believed put forward by Lynn's attorney in one the pre hearings.

That would be to cast reasonable doubt on the charges of murder. They only need to plant the seed of it being accidental death and/or self defence by introducing an alternate theory that fits with the evidence.

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