Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Royces Hart]

Bugger, I didn't know about this rope when I role played it with my partner. We are going to have to do it all over again. I don't want to play Lynn, partner doesn't want to play Lynn... that leaves the cat.

Please don’t role play with your cat and a rope, or you might end up with your own thread here.

 

[Kurve]

No, but someone posted an image of it recently.

View attachment 2015458

Presuming for a moment that Hill did have Lynn's gun, I don't understand either what Hill was thinking heading for the front of vehicle and getting caught up in a bit of a scrum, particularly if he's so aware of gun safety. It's just so careless and dangerous.

 

[Spectrix]

I took all of the maps and aerial shots published at that point and made a guestimate of where each campsite was. I wasn't far off, but I didn't factor in that GL's car was not with his trailer/camper, so they were in fact much closer
to each other than I originally suspected.

Can you please run us through the meaning of the F S T and T on Lynns map?

 

[tandino]

There was, or should have been, a lot of evidence to support Lynn’s version.

1/ The mirror
2/ Glass from the mirror on the ground
3/ Finger prints on the gun
4/ Clay’s body with gun shot injury
5/ Blood from clay on the ground
6/ Blood splatter from clay on other things like solar panels
7/ The knife
8/ Hill’s body with knife wound
9/ Blood from Hill on the ground
10/ The knife
11/ Drone
12/ Tent and awning

This is not an exhaustive list.

Lynn methodically and systematical took action to destroy and eliminate all evidence that could prove his version of events.

All of it.

An innocent person - even if you wanted to run and hide - would not do that.

Not just, as he claims in the immediate aftermath in a state of panic but over the course of many months.

The gun especially with Hill’s finger print on the trigger - he had time to ponder and could have kept - as the ultimate insurance if the cops came knocking.

When you think about it, there was a lot more evidence of what Lynn said went down, than for any other scenario. Yet the person who most needed and had the most to benefit from such evidence - destroys every shred of it.

How he had initially had left them would have supported his story if he believed the cops were closing in.

At that point it was in his interest of being able to prove his innocence that the bodies should have remained undisturbed.

There was no rational reason to further interfere with the bodies.

At that point his interest would have been best served if the bodies were found.

To be honest, where this type of thinking falls down is that it attributes too much weight to rationality and it's bearing on his guilt/not guilt. We know that for some/most/all people, rational behaviour is not a constant as they go about their day to day lives. If I had to go back and justify every decision I have made to a neutral observer, some would seem absurd and ridiculous, and I've lived a pretty sedate life, nothing near the high stress situation that Lynn found himself in, whatever happened up there.

I think even if you take Lynn at his word, an 'accident' still costs him his career. So the motivation is there to try and cover it up, and I suppose once you've made the decision to walk down that path, it's much harder to turn back around. There is a world where his convenient box ticking story is the actual truth.

Tl'dr, Lynn's subsequent actions don't speak much to his guilt, in my personal view.

Putting aside the tragic deaths of two people, it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out in the end. If I were him I wouldn't be making any long term plans.

 

[champagnegirl]

To be honest, where this type of thinking falls down is that it attributes too much weight to rationality and it's bearing on his guilt/not guilt. We know that for some/most/all people, rational behaviour is not a constant as they go about their day to day lives. If I had to go back and justify every decision I have made to a neutral observer, some would seem absurd and ridiculous, and I've lived a pretty sedate life, nothing near the high stress situation that Lynn found himself in, whatever happened up there.

I think even if you take Lynn at his word, an 'accident' still costs him his career. So the motivation is there to try and cover it up, and I suppose once you've made the decision to walk down that path, it's much harder to turn back around. There is a world where his convenient box ticking story is the actual truth.

Tl'dr, Lynn's subsequent actions don't speak much to his guilt, in my personal view.

Putting aside the tragic deaths of two people, it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out in the end. If I were him I wouldn't be making any long term plans.

Absolutely don’t agree. You are entitled to your opinion but I live in a world where there are causes and consequences.

If we choose to be part of a societal system, then we need to respect law and order. We need to protect values such as decency, compassion and respect that form a basis for civilised behaviour.

Of course he knew his career would be
over but that didn’t give him the right to dispose of two humans, wipe out their existence from this planet just as though they’d never existed. And to condemn their families to living their lives not knowing, hoping, praying every moment of every day to find answers to the fate of the people they loved most in the world.

And now to live a life filled with the bitter and haunting memories of what another human did to their own.

Hill had a wife and 3 adult daughters! Clay had a family who loved her.

We can’t just take it on ourselves to dispose of a human and wipe out their heritage. Not for any reason.

There is nothing that could justify Lynn’s barbaric and irrational actions not only against society but against humanity and decency. IMO

 

[highcountry]

The guy rope tied at the bull bar drivers side and to the toilet, might be information the police held back. (edit: through the investigation)

I can't see it in the images we saw through the press.

Agreed. I’ve looked at a lot of images tonight.

Only those released recently seem to show the guy rope.

I’ve also found an old shot of Lynn’s typical camp set up.

It highlights how in every camp set up there are usually a lot of guy ropes. There would have been many more around hill and clays tent.

All significant trip hazards in the dark.

 

[Badd0g]

Can you please run us through the meaning of the F S T and T on Lynns map?

The second map is one I marked up

This is not the second one. I also don't know what the FT and ST R
refer to

 

[Pamcake1]

Bugger, I didn't know about this rope when I role played it with my partner. We are going to have to do it all over again. I don't want to play Lynn, partner doesn't want to play Lynn... that leaves the cat.

Lucky it's the Kings Birthday holiday then.
Expect cat will shortly be looking to do podcast for us at BF.

 

[highcountry]

In Lynn’s drawing of the scene what stands out are the 4 doors of his car being left open.

No one would ever do that camping at night. Not only to prevent pests and animals getting in, but you absolutely would not leave all 4 doors open if you had a gun and ammo clearly visible. Which is Lynn’s story.

If you accept his story that he turned the music up to annoy Hill you’d only want and need to open the front doors with the big base speakers in them. And there would be be no need to open the far side door as that would dissipate the music away from Hill and Clay.

4 doors all flung open looks odd. Because it is. Especially at night. Doubly so with unsecured guns.

 

[highcountry]

Interesting fact that Lynn has a tough on crime stance.

Or he did.

 

[Pamcake1]

In Lynn’s drawing of the scene what stands out are the 4 doors of his car being left open.

No one would ever do that camping at night. Not only to prevent pests and animals getting in, but you absolutely would not leave all 4 doors open if you had a gun and ammo clearly visible. Which is Lynn’s story.

If you accept his story that he turned the music up to annoy Hill you’d only want and need to open the front doors with the big base speakers in them. And there would be be no need to open the far side door as that would dissipate the music away from Hill and Clay.

4 doors all flung open looks odd. Because it is. Especially at night. Doubly so with unsecured guns.

I do hope that there are members of the jury who understand what camping and being in the Australian bush actually means in practice and functional amenity.
The reality of all the little tells that GL's story just aint right, that stick out to experienced campers (and hunters) compel disbelief in it's credibility.

 

[highcountry]

I do hope that there are members of the jury who understand what camping and being in the Australian bush actually means in practice and functional amenity.
The reality of all the little tells that GL's story just aint right, that stick out to experienced campers (and hunters) compel disbelief in it's credibility.

I would have liked to have seen the jury on a field trip to crime scene with tents and cars set up as claimed.

And then to visit again in the dark of night.

That would have sealed the deal about what in all likelihood happened.

And what absolutely did not.

Let’s hope there are campers on the jury who can share their experience of camp set ups and life in camp after the sun sets.

 

[Pamcake1]

Interesting fact that Lynn has a tough on crime stance.

Or he did.

IMO
He is the sort of character that reveals;
a/ that he would always do a superior job of being an armchair crime crusader.
b/would employ a sliding scale of morality depending on whether the/a crime was of personal interest or impact.
c/never in any doubt of self serving preservation in all opinions.
d/adhered to rigid belief system of a dictatorial flavour.
e/ineffable belief in self sufficiency and self actualisation.
f/was somehow believing to be magically protected from hubris.
g/has a sufiet of misanthropy.

 

[Lady O]

The second map is one I marked up, it did not come from the prosecution at all.
I took all of the maps and aerial shots published at that point and made a guestimate of where each campsite was. I wasn't far off, but I didn't factor in that GL's car was not with his trailer/camper, so they were in fact much closer
to each other than I originally suspected.

So, are you saying these two were also marked up by you? I thought they must have come from the Police, via a newspaper.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Yep, not one scrap of useful evidence remains to support GL’s account

He should be a scriptwriter, has all the moves mapped out. In a completely random, chaotic, terrifying situation he remembers every nuance, every angle.

Except the rope but aaah, yes, he got under the rope, he's sure of it.

 

[GrayRanga]

IMO
He is the sort of character that reveals;
a/ that he would always do a superior job of being an armchair crime crusader.
b/would employ a sliding scale of morality depending on whether the/a crime was of personal interest or impact.
c/never in any doubt of self serving preservation in all opinions.
d/adhered to rigid belief system of a dictatorial flavour.
e/ineffable belief in self sufficiency and self actualisation.
f/was somehow believing to be magically protected from hubris.
g/has a sufiet of misanthropy.

Dare I suggest a couple of other character traits:

1 A "concrete", a rigid or binary thinker with little or no concept of "grey' areas of the human experience or subtleties of social or societal interactions.
2 A person who is highly judgmental of others and willing to punish those for actual or perceived breaches of his rigid world view
3 A person who believes that crime (or breaches of his perspective of right or wrong) must be punished
4 A person who has spent too much time reading of, listening to or watching "true crime" articles, books, podcasts and visual media

I found his comment in his ROI of "ticking all the boxes" to be so very telling; he was working to a very specific mindset modelling of what was considered of right and wrong and a very narrow selfish viewpoint of how others would perceive this.

His "ticking all the boxes" indicates that he has spent too many hours watching "CSI" and not enough time watching "Rumpole of the Bailey"

I would suggest that his political leanings would veer towards the extreme ends of the political spectrum (literally a bell end)

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

How an innocent person would act. How would you know? Fine to theorise but say it was a total accident + he's been irresponsible with the guns. It's actually a ****ing unbelievable situation. Who honestly knows how anyone reacts?
Who hear has been in emergency high stress situations? (All be it not like this). There is no way of knowing how you act until your in it

And there is no way you remember the exact details and the order in which they occurred. People who are witnesses to an accident or some sort of dramatic event seldom tell the same story. The mind can't make sense of it or keep up with it as it's rapidly transpiring.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Absolutely don’t agree. You are entitled to your opinion but I live in a world where there are causes and consequences.

If we choose to be part of a societal system, then we need to respect law and order. We need to protect values such as decency, compassion and respect that form a basis for civilised behaviour.

Of course he knew his career would be
over but that didn’t give him the right to dispose of two humans, wipe out their existence from this planet just as though they’d never existed. And to condemn their families to living their lives not knowing, hoping, praying every moment of every day to find answers to the fate of the people they loved most in the world.

And now to live a life filled with the bitter and haunting memories of what another human did to their own.

Hill had a wife and 3 adult daughters! Clay had a family who loved her.

We can’t just take it on ourselves to dispose of a human and wipe out their heritage. Not for any reason.

There is nothing that could justify Lynn’s barbaric and irrational actions not only against society but against humanity and decency. IMO

I've told you before, please deliver the prosecutions summary.

 

[GladdyDee]

No mention of any altercation on radio call at 6:00 pm byHill.

Might have been overheard by GL, if he had been mouthy about it. But we’re also relying on the radio pals recollection of what went down on an otherwise unotable night. Who knows some zingers might have been put out to annoy GL but gone over that persons head? We will never know and can drive ourselves batty figuring it out IMO

 

[GladdyDee]

And there is no way you remember the exact details and the order in which they occurred. People who are witnesses to an accident or some sort of dramatic event seldom tell the same story. The mind can't make sense of it or keep up with it as it's rapidly transpiring.

Yeah the lack of confusion or even admitting that things have been replayed in his mind and got blurry due to the trauma. There was no mention of ‘I had no idea what was happening or time stood still etc etc’ . Instead a cold narrator, ticking boxes.

 

[MiguelM]

Yeah the lack of confusion or even admitting that things have been replayed in his mind and got blurry due to the trauma. There was no mention of ‘I had no idea what was happening or time stood still etc etc’ . Instead a cold narrator, ticking boxes.

I have seen people panic and generally they are quite irrational.

 

[fargo in dargo]

The reality of all the little tells that GL's story just aint right, that stick out to experienced campers (and hunters) compel disbelief in it's credibility.

Lynn has asked me to believe in a "looney tune" chain of events. His BS story is straight out of an Elma Fudd/Duffy Duck toon.! And trying to avoid getting on my high horse so to speak, I am outraged that I am expected to believe this BS. Seriously.

 

[LeChatNoir]

In Lynn’s drawing of the scene what stands out are the 4 doors of his car being left open.

No one would ever do that camping at night. Not only to prevent pests and animals getting in, but you absolutely would not leave all 4 doors open if you had a gun and ammo clearly visible. Which is Lynn’s story.

If you accept his story that he turned the music up to annoy Hill you’d only want and need to open the front doors with the big base speakers in them. And there would be be no need to open the far side door as that would dissipate the music away from Hill and Clay.

4 doors all flung open looks odd. Because it is. Especially at night. Doubly so with unsecured guns.

Didn't Lynn say somewhere that the lights in the car were turned off because he didn't want to drain the battery? Does't playing the radio with the motor turned off drain the battery?

 

[jason_recliner]

Didn't Lynn say somewhere that the lights in the car were turned off because he didn't want to drain the battery? Does't playing the radio with the motor turned off drain the battery?

Radio uses very little power, can run off the battery for a long time.

 

[LeChatNoir]

Radio uses very little power, can run off the battery for a long time.

^^^ Cheers. I'm running through my "Lynn BS paper" and I'm trying to tick all the boxes.