Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Run n Spread]

Agreed. I’ve looked at a lot of images tonight.

Only those released recently seem to show the guy rope.

I’ve also found an old shot of Lynn’s typical camp set up.

It highlights how in every camp set up there are usually a lot of guy ropes. There would have been many more around hill and clays tent.

All significant trip hazards in the dark.

But that wasn't the photo of RHs campsite. There was one rope. Unless there were burnt out tarps canopies etc that would necessitate more rope and thus make GLs story fanciful.and thus the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is he is guilty of murder.
That's been my point not I believe GLs story but it's the only other possibility put foward. Prosecution have not spent enough time deconstructing the set up.angle and forensics of the camp. Only gone with actions panic etc and actions after.
Doesnt matter what is believed its what can be proven. As such evidence presented somewhat backs up GLs version. Hard to sustain a double murder conviction based on that.
Plus there have been many instances in history where seemingly unbelievable things happened

 

[MiguelM]

Radio uses very little power, can run off the battery for a long time.

I would be shocked if Lynn didn't have a dual battery system. Any serious camper/hunter/4wd person does, esp in these remote areas.

 

[Badd0g]

So, are you saying these two were also marked up by you? I thought they must have come from the Police, via a newspap

Correct. You'll find 4 photos in my original post with a legend for the colours I used.

Edit: original post bere- https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-lynn-pleads-not-guilty.1239870/post-83666243

 

[ApplesandBananas]

And there is no way you remember the exact details and the order in which they occurred. People who are witnesses to an accident or some sort of dramatic event seldom tell the same story. The mind can't make sense of it or keep up with it as it's rapidly transpiring.

The most telling debunking in psychology is of eyewitness testimony, which as you alluded to, are subject to biases, misconceptions and a variety of errors in recall.
If someone is suggesting that they are panicked, AND can also deliver detail blow by blow. I have no doubt a) they either believe it , or they have told it enough to themselves, that they do believe it

 

[Lady O]

Some more photos were made public today that answer a few things about the campsite - in particular how far apart they were. I'm sure we'll get a mudmap at some stage but in the meantime I had a look at todays photos and some older ones. The first one is one that was marked by someone who identified GLs camp by the black circle. The second and third are side on views of RH car and the fourth is another, slightly different angled aerial view of the campsite. Identifying the same trees in each shot (purple, green, yellow and blue dots), I have marked approximately where it appears the two campsites were: Red for GL and White for RH/CC. Looking from the perspective of pic 3, they don't actually appear to be that close. Close enough to see each other but not exactly in each others' laps. It certainly wouldn't move my needle if someone camped that close to me...

Is there any third party who can identify exactly where Lynn camped? I'm thinking that Lynn, to suit his own narrative, may have suggested that Hill's camp was closer than it actually was, to promote how "arrogant" and lacking in camping etiquette Hill was.

It appears to me that there was some fairly thick scrub around the river which would have blocked their view of each other. Was there confirmation of how far apart their camps were (50mtrs) or is this just a guess too?

 

[Badd0g]

Is there any third party who can identify exactly where Lynn camped? I'm thinking that Lynn, to suit his own narrative, may have suggested that Hill's camp was closer than it actually was, to promote how "arrogant" and lacking in camping etiquette Hill was.

It appears to me that there was some fairly thick scrub around the river which would have blocked their view of each other. Was there confirmation of how far apart their camps were (50mtrs) or is this just a guess too?

One of the pictures had a black circle where the Serbian guys said he was camped. However that only accounts for where his trailer/tent was.. Not his car.

 

[Badd0g]

Have been away but just caught up with the latest ep of the podcast.

Couple more things that stick out and don't fit he story:

Dann speaking of the scene and referring to it as a crime scene before correcting himself and calling it the accident scene.

Lynn answering Prs question re evidence that would have supported his story and referring to his gun bag.... Yet another hurdle for RH to access the gun before GL could.: a zipped up gun bag.

At every turn there's holes in his story but IMO still not enough for a jury to convict x2 murder beyond reasonable doubt.
InagoRaida youve said a couple of times you think mansl is off the table... Curious as to why you believe that to be so.

 

[Lady O]

Have been away but just caught up with the latest ep of the podcast.

Couple more things that stick out and don't fit he story:

Dann speaking of the scene and referring to it as a crime scene before correcting himself and calling it the accident scene.

I made a note of that 'slip up'. Also, under cross examination Pros questioned him about destroying all the evidence; said the tent, (yes), crime scene (yes), removed bodies (yes), destroyed all the evidence (yes).

 

[LeChatNoir]

I made a note of that 'slip up'. Also, under cross examination Pros questioned him about destroying all the evidence; said the tent, (yes), crime scene (yes), removed bodies (yes), destroyed all the evidence (yes).

 

[Teen Wolf]

Dare I suggest a couple of other character traits:

1 A "concrete", a rigid or binary thinker with little or no concept of "grey' areas of the human experience or subtleties of social or societal interactions.
2 A person who is highly judgmental of others and willing to punish those for actual or perceived breaches of his rigid world view
3 A person who believes that crime (or breaches of his perspective of right or wrong) must be punished
4 A person who has spent too much time reading of, listening to or watching "true crime" articles, books, podcasts and visual media

I found his comment in his ROI of "ticking all the boxes" to be so very telling; he was working to a very specific mindset modelling of what was considered of right and wrong and a very narrow selfish viewpoint of how others would perceive this.

His "ticking all the boxes" indicates that he has spent too many hours watching "CSI" and not enough time watching "Rumpole of the Bailey"

I would suggest that his political leanings would veer towards the extreme ends of the political spectrum (literally a bell end)

Definitely the kind of guy who liked monitoring others, sticking his nose in and policing people.

Dobbed in neighbours to the council all the time, including a certain award-winning AFL player (who lived 3 doors down) for a messy nature strip.

 

[GardenGnome]

If my husband went away hunting and came back minus a set of clothing, I'd ask where they were and finding it unusual he simply lost a whole set, I'd remember it.

I'm sure the cops have probably asked him what he was wearing and where those clothes are but nothing faik has been mentioned in the press.

This leads me to thinking atm, that he probably took them home and he rinsed them out at the motel, hanging them up to dry and that's how some of Russell's DNA sploshed on to the bath mat.

This is something that’s been on my mind for some time. GL clothes.

We don’t know GL camping wardrobe, but my Dad and brother (and me, when I think about it) largely wear the same clothes when going camping. I even have a set of clothes in a box with my camping gear so it’s easier and quicker to pack/get stuff together at short notice.

Lynn doesn’t strike me as the type to have multiple sets of clothing when going camping for a couple of days.

I’ve read in his statement somewhere that he burnt one set of clothing, presumably at the campsite, changed into a new set of clothing which he also burnt later.

This means two sets of clothing burnt. If he was only away for a couple of days… that doesn’t leave too many clothes coming home for washing.

We don’t know the domestic set-up at the Lynn household, or who does the washing, but my mother would certainly notice the diminished amount of clothing coming back for washing and drying.

Just doesn’t add up.

 

[jason_recliner]

This is something that’s been on my mind for some time. GL clothes.

We don’t know GL camping wardrobe, but my Dad and brother (and me, when I think about it) largely wear the same clothes when going camping. I even have a set of clothes in a box with my camping gear so it’s easier and quicker to pack/get stuff together at short notice.

Lynn doesn’t strike me as the type to have multiple sets of clothing when going camping for a couple of days.

I’ve read in his statement somewhere that he burnt one set of clothing, presumably at the campsite, changed into a new set of clothing which he also burnt later.

This means two sets of clothing burnt. If he was only away for a couple of days… that doesn’t leave too many clothes coming home for washing.

We don’t know the domestic set-up at the Lynn household, or who does the washing, but my mother would certainly notice the diminished amount of clothing coming back for washing and drying.

Just doesn’t add up.

It's very plausible that camping clothes are disposed of because they are dirty and old and not worth the effort of cleaning. I quite often return from holidays with less clothes than I took - I take some of my oldest clothes for bumming around and bin them instead of doing the laundry.

 

[Lady O]

This is something that’s been on my mind for some time. GL clothes.

We don’t know GL camping wardrobe, but my Dad and brother (and me, when I think about it) largely wear the same clothes when going camping. I even have a set of clothes in a box with my camping gear so it’s easier and quicker to pack/get stuff together at short notice.

Lynn doesn’t strike me as the type to have multiple sets of clothing when going camping for a couple of days.

I’ve read in his statement somewhere that he burnt one set of clothing, presumably at the campsite, changed into a new set of clothing which he also burnt later.

This means two sets of clothing burnt. If he was only away for a couple of days… that doesn’t leave too many clothes coming home for washing.

We don’t know the domestic set-up at the Lynn household, or who does the washing, but my mother would certainly notice the diminished amount of clothing coming back for washing and drying.

Just doesn’t add up.

My partner used to go fishing and take old work clothes that he wore till they stank and throw them away. I thought not having to wash clothes stinking of fish was a good thing.

 

[GardenGnome]

Didn't Hill suffer from a heart condition? If my memory is correct, then he would most likely have been taking blood thinners and if so, a wound of any kind would have bled profusely.

Yes, I recall RH wife on the stand mentioning various medications; if blood thinners were on that list, then certainly would lead to profuse bleeding, as you’ve mentioned.

I read somewhere, or heard maybe in the podcast? That during the knife struggle and after being stabbed, RH fell on top of GL, he rolled him over, he crawled a bit, stopped then bled out!

Sorry I can’t remember where this was reported but recently, in his statement or while on the witness stand.

Also that part of the “story” doesn’t seem right either. While I’ve never stabbed someone, I can’t imagine they’d fall forward?

 

[Kurve]

Without knowing all the detail of what Lynn said happened when Hill died, it might be another case of him telling on himself if he said Hill bled out because a stab to the heart doesn't really do that. A stab to the spleen, liver or cutting a major artery will cause bleed out to death but what would have probably killed Hill, was not specifically the stab to the heart with a kitchen knife but when the knife was pulled out.

If imo Hill likely didn't die from being stabbed once falling on his kitchen knife.

 

[GardenGnome]

Radio uses very little power, can run off the battery for a long time.

OMG, just imagine the scenario if GL car battery died out there after all this went down

 

[GardenGnome]

My partner used to go fishing and take old work clothes that he wore till they stank and throw them away. I thought not having to wash clothes stinking of fish was a good thing.

Maybe GL disposed of his clothing because it was Jetstar branded - right down to the gloves

 

[justallyone]

Yes, I recall RH wife on the stand mentioning various medications; if blood thinners were on that list, then certainly would lead to profuse bleeding, as you’ve mentioned.

I read somewhere, or heard maybe in the podcast? That during the knife struggle and after being stabbed, RH fell on top of GL, he rolled him over, he crawled a bit, stopped then bled out!

Sorry I can’t remember where this was reported but recently, in his statement or while on the witness stand.

Also that part of the “story” doesn’t seem right either. While I’ve never stabbed someone, I can’t imagine they’d fall forward?

Why no blood, DNA or scorch marks at RH fall and crawl site?

 

[Spectrix]

Also that part of the “story” doesn’t seem right either. While I’ve never stabbed someone, I can’t imagine they’d fall forward?

As far as I understand, Lynn was suggesting that both men fell as a result of the struggle, and the knife injury happened as a result of that fall.

 

[GardenGnome]

Why no blood, DNA or scorch marks at RH fall and crawl site?

Yes! Exactly. Just another part that doesn’t add up.

Also re:the guy ropes from toilet to front right bumper of RH vehicle.

If there was an epic struggle at that location, one would assume that the rope would be an impediment (as suggested before in this thread).

But also I reckon that the toilet tent would’ve somehow become damaged, or at least the rope would’ve pulled on the tab of the toilet tent in such a violent struggle. It also looks awfully close to the vehicle, not leaning much room for this alleged incident to have occurred in that spot.

 

[Royces Hart]

Definitely the kind of guy who liked monitoring others, sticking his nose in and policing people.

Dobbed in neighbours to the council all the time, including a certain award-winning AFL player (who lived 3 doors down) for a messy nature strip.

Tbf, that nature strip was ****ed.

 

[Underarrest_]

I would have liked to have seen the jury on a field trip to crime scene with tents and cars set up as claimed.

And then to visit again in the dark of night.

That would have sealed the deal about what in all likelihood happened.

And what absolutely did not.

Let’s hope there are campers on the jury who can share their experience of camp set ups and life in camp after the sun sets.

An initial recorded re-enactment of the incident at the scene
would have been helpful (GL not remembering the guy rope) and then another reenactment later for the jury (with the guy rope.)

 

[Lady O]

Someone asked why Hill took the (unfamiliar) shotgun and slugs and left the rifle and bullets. I wonder if it because a bullet from a rifle is able to be traced to the rifle, but a slug from a shotgun is only identifiable by the marks on the casing, which Lynn was very careful to pick up?

 

[Spectrix]

Bugger, I didn't know about this rope when I role played it with my partner. We are going to have to do it all over again. I don't want to play Lynn, partner doesn't want to play Lynn... that leaves the cat.

re-enactment of the incident at the scene
would have been helpful (GL not remembering the guy rope) and then another reenactment later for the jury (with the guy rope.)

These re-enactments of course are subject to the schedules of LeChatNoir and their partner, and the cat, and whether or not any of them are prepared to play Lynn.

 

[Kurve]

Why no blood, DNA or scorch marks at RH fall and crawl site?

There may not have been a lot and if there was, Lynn who admitted to cleaning up the side of the ute only had to throw a bucket of water over it. Burning would have been obvious there may be another crime scene away from Hill's campsite.

The police didn't get there for a few days anyway, it would be gone.