Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[InagoRaida]

From a practicality perspective GL loses irrespective. Whatever sentence he gets, when he gets out he’ll lose all of his club memberships, firearms licence, won’t be able to fly (too old anyway at that time) will probably need to sell the house, use up his super etc.

If you had to balance the books and chose which path to take it would never be the one he chose if it went down like he claims. IMO.

Yes agree..he's almost too old to fly now (in AU, 60 is mandatory retirement age from RPT commercial pilots from memory), the clubs would have ditched him by now, etc.
Of course, the public notoriety in such a publicised case and despeciable actions on the remains of Hill and Clay, to which he has concuured, means he's 'done' as far as a normal life in AU (Vic at least!) regardless of jury outcome...IMO

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

He doesnt need to push a narrative if theres reasonable doubt.

The more that comes out the more the doubt shrinks. Don’t forget Chris Dawson was convicted on NO tangible evidence, not even a body, but on the balance of probabilities. There’s much more evidence here.

 

[Zidane98]

Super? Other assets? (They could sell the Nissan..have to change the colour though!). I can't imagine Mr Dann doing this one pro bono....

Id buy the Patrol as a bush basher. Considering GL's financial state Id offer 7k for it.

 

[InagoRaida]

Ironic that someone who appears cool calm and collected in the witness stand and is trained to think logically in stressful situations and remain calm can let a cranky old man affect him to the point of being antagonistic and playing annoying loud music and a peaceful environment culminating in 2 deaths. It seems that these behaviors are at odds with each other.

Yes agreed its quite the dichotomy....i bet he's feeling like a he's on a hot tin roof now though...

 

[InagoRaida]

Id buy the Patrol as a bush basher. Considering GL's financial state Id offer 7k for it.

Tell 'hm he's dreamin' ! 7k only with the awning refitted!

 

[Thats Ambitious]

As long as the defence dont make the jury watch 'Tucker and Dale Vs Evil', then I reckon he gets done for at least one murder charge.

 

[GladdyDee]

Yes agreed its quite the dichotomy....i bet he's feeling like a he's on a hot tin roof now though...

In the psych world, theres a phenomenon called the ‘shadow self’. The aspects of other people that really push your buttons are the very characteristics that you can’t come to terms with about yourself. It might follow that any assertiveness or power move that RH made in ever so slight way, furnaced rage in GL’s shadow. And the shadow hates being seen.

 

[Pamcake1]

Super? Other assets? (They could sell the Nissan..have to change the colour though!). I can't imagine Mr Dann doing this one pro bono....

IMO
Definitely wouldn't be pro bono however in high profile cases, often a deal is done on the fees bc the Defence gets cache for taking and running a case.
Who knows what the deal is in fact.
Either way as you said before normal life is done and was always done once he harmed another human being.
I was thinking about ancilary means of income; ie. a book etc.
This wouldn't work as a conviction (and there will be one) and GL's method of disposal of the victims rule that out.
Has GL given DD proprietry rights over the story as part of a deal for fees?

 

[taz01]

on a fb page over the weekend someone had shot a dog and dumped the body in a wombat hole, people were upset and angry that someone could do that to a dog, (dispose of it like that), what GL did with RH and CC is beyond forgivable, what he put their families through is a disgrace, having seen a family go through (still going through) having a missing loved one, knowing they have been murdered but not having answers is one of the most heart wrenching things for someone to go through, his thoughts were only for himself, he even said they were gone and it didn't matter to them, they may have been gone but there families are left behind not knowing until he was caught, he is the lowest of low in my book, I am praying and hoping he gets what he deserves.

 

[gymjam]

The ballistics expert did a re-enactment of sorts, though only to ascertain if the slug fired from the position indicated by Lynn could have hit the mirror and subsequently Ms Clay's head.

(He ascertained that in one of the three scenarios, it could. That one matching scenario was conveniently left out of the prosecution's evidence, and Dermot Dann subsequently picked up on it).

It seems from what you have written, there was not 'forensic try-out' regarding the guy rope? Do you know which guy rope Lynn when referring to when both men were bothered by the guy rope during their altercation ? The one on the right front (as you would enter) the loo tent? or the one at the rear of the tent that was tied to the vehicle?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

I can imagine his outrage everytime Dan Andrews was on the tv extending lockdown week after week hehe!

Police can be very understanding at times. If GL explained to them that it was an emergency as he had to get rid of two bodies, I'm sure they would have given him an escort.

 

[Underarrest_]

It seems from what you have written, there was not 'forensic try-out' regarding the guy rope? Do you know which guy rope Lynn when referring to when both men were bothered by the guy rope during their altercation ? The one on the right front (as you would enter) the loo tent? or the one at the rear of the tent that was tied to the vehicle?

The way GL answered questions about the guy rope seemed telling to me. He seemed to change his version to suit the scenario.
Not sure if the jury was shown re-enactments but will defence challenge this if there’s been no re-enactments with or without the guy rope?

 

[GladdyDee]

I can imagine his outrage everytime Dan Andrews was on the tv extending lockdown week after week hehe!

The flipside is it gave him time to work up a beauty. Lemons to lemonade. A unique opportunity - life as we know it suspended, conveniently, time for all angles to be figured out and pressure tested. Not bad IMO

 

[Underarrest_]

Id buy the Patrol as a bush basher. Considering GL's financial state Id offer 7k for it.

Bush basher? You might wreck the new paint job.

 

[LeChatNoir]

Yes but that’s after they were dead…

“Why should I loose my career because of the actions of a grumpy old man” could have been his justification… he knew his life was ruined if he was linked to the deaths. So in his view he had no option but to cover it up. As sick as it sounds ..

I think we are well past using Lynn's version of events as evidence that Hill was grumpy, hostile, confrontational etc.

The idea that this whole thing was started by a grumpy old man confronting Lynn is just blame shifting. If this really happened, then it was Lynn’s actions of shooting too close to camp that started the chain of events that led to the deaths of two people.

I have always rejected the talk of Hill's infidelity, Viagra pills and idea that the campers were in their tent having sex before they died. This talk served only to muddy the waters and discredit Hill and Clay, to paint them as being not-so-innocent, as cheating, untrustworthy, deceptive and so on.

Once the masses had finished throwing rocks at Hill and Clay, it wouldn't be so hard for the Defence to build Lynn's profile of a family man, worried about the affect the "accidents" would have on his family, a man who helps the cabin crew clean-up, a man who is a member of gun clubs so as to perfect his shooting to ensure the animal suffers as little as possible, a man who would do any menial job to support his family.

In my book, Hill and Clay were lovely. Of course I don't know their stories, but I can see that the truth in a couple who were young sweethearts and then taking different paths because LIFE GOT IN THE WAY. Perhaps as they got older, they wondered about their first love all those years ago, what it would have been like if they had stayed together?

We will never know. What we do know is that life gave them a second and they took it.

They loved each other and wanted to be together. Hill stayed with his wife because she wasn't well. How many people lied or kept the truth from their loved ones because they didn't want to hurt them?

And unlike Lynn who lied to his family to cover up an alleged crime, Hill lied to cover up a "love". I think he is a much nicer person than how he’s represented in the media. He was loved by two women, both wanting him in their lives and he did his best to not hurt either of them.

So, I reject that Lynn was thinking his career would be over because of the "actions of a grumpy old man". Lynn's career would be over because of his own poor behavioural controls, inability to accept responsibility for his own actions, lack of empathy feeding his over inflated sense of self-worth while diminishing the worth of others, his own pathological lying, narcissistic manipulating tendencies projecting blame onto others, and his obvious inability to feel remorse or guilt for his actions.
IMHO

 

[CredibleSauce]

Well, say weeks is 25 sitting days in court, on good authority say 16-20k/day for Dann, thats still 400-500K..let alone disbursements, pre work, assissting counsel McGrath, and all the initial hearings about what evidence was in/out...I know Pilot super is good, but it's going to be a very sizeable sum of money!

How ironic would it be (supposing we were in some alternate reality/fantasy land) if GL was telling the truth - would have been a lot cheaper for old Greg to just cop the gross negligence/involuntary manslaughter charges and at least been able to see a few dollars of his super when he got out.

Oh well.

 

[MiguelM]

I think we are well past using Lynn's version of events as evidence that Hill was grumpy, hostile, confrontational etc.

The idea that this whole thing was started by a grumpy old man confronting Lynn is just blame shifting. If this really happened, then it was Lynn’s actions of shooting too close to camp that started the chain of events that led to the deaths of two people.

I have always rejected the talk of Hill's infidelity, Viagra pills and idea that the campers were in their tent having sex before they died. This talk served only to muddy the waters and discredit Hill and Clay, to paint them as being not-so-innocent, as cheating, untrustworthy, deceptive and so on.

Once the masses had finished throwing rocks at Hill and Clay, it wouldn't be so hard for the Defence to build Lynn's profile of a family man, worried about the affect the "accidents" would have on his family, a man who helps the cabin crew clean-up, a man who is a member of gun clubs so as to perfect his shooting to ensure the animal suffers as little as possible, a man who would do any menial job to support his family.

In my book, Hill and Clay were lovely. Of course I don't know their stories, but I can see that the truth in a couple who were young sweethearts and then taking different paths because LIFE GOT IN THE WAY. Perhaps as they got older, they wondered about their first love all those years ago, what it would have been like if they had stayed together?

We will never know. What we do know is that life gave them a second and they took it.

They loved each other and wanted to be together. Hill stayed with his wife because she wasn't well. How many people lied or kept the truth from their loved ones because they didn't want to hurt them?

And unlike Lynn who lied to his family to cover up an alleged crime, Hill lied to cover up a "love". I think he is a much nicer person than how he’s represented in the media. He was loved by two women, both wanting him in their lives and he did his best to not hurt either of them.

So, I reject that Lynn was thinking his career would be over because of the "actions of a grumpy old man". Lynn's career would be over because of his own poor behavioural controls, inability to accept responsibility for his own actions, lack of empathy feeding his over inflated sense of self-worth while diminishing the worth of others, his own pathological lying, narcissistic manipulating tendencies projecting blame onto others, and his obvious inability to feel remorse or guilt for his actions.
IMHO

Yeah I bet if prosecution could include Lynn's past rumours they could paint a bad picture too.

The viagra stuff should not have been allowed imo. Nothing to do with the case at all.

 

[LeChatNoir]

Narcissistic Personality Disorder comes to mind. Or borderline. IMO.

IMO, put the cherry on top....Psycho!

 

[Underarrest_]

How ironic would it be (supposing we were in some alternate reality/fantasy land) if GL was telling the truth - would have been a lot cheaper for old Greg to just cop the gross negligence/involuntary manslaughter charges and at least been able to see a few dollars of his super when he got out.

Oh well.

This is so true. Did he really think he would have gone on with life and never been suspected. There was witnesses who saw him at the camp area.

 

[LeChatNoir]

Yes agree..he's almost too old to fly now (in AU, 60 is mandatory retirement age from RPT commercial pilots from memory), the clubs would have ditched him by now, etc.
Of course, the public notoriety in such a publicised case and despeciable actions on the remains of Hill and Clay, to which he has concuured, means he's 'done' as far as a normal life in AU (Vic at least!) regardless of jury outcome...IMO

Don't you ever sleep? Really appreciate your commenting for all of us who can't be in court.

 

[MiguelM]

This is so true. Did he really think he would have gone on with life and never been suspected. There was witnesses who saw him at the camp area.

Absolutely thought he could disappear, said so himself. So close to getting away with it. Had he not driven past the Hotham camera (skiers might have known about this camera) or taken Hills phone he might have suceeded.

Now he has destroyed any evidence that might have got him off.

Deserves everything he gets IMO.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Yesterday's summary

EX-PILOT’S MURDERS EVIDENCE ‘FANCIFUL’

EX-PILOT’S MURDERS EVIDENCE ‘FANCIFUL’

todayspaper.theaustralian.com.au

 

[GladdyDee]

Absolutely thought he could disappear, said so himself. So close to getting away with it. Had he not driven past the Hotham camera (skiers might have known about this camera) or taken Hills phone he might have suceeded.

Now he has destroyed any evidence that might have got him off.

And if he’d immediately told his wife about the accidents, it could have sounded like a remote possibility not a madman dreaming IMO

 

[LeChatNoir]

In the psych world, theres a phenomenon called the ‘shadow self’. The aspects of other people that really push your buttons are the very characteristics that you can’t come to terms with about yourself. It might follow that any assertiveness or power move that RH made in ever so slight way, furnaced rage in GL’s shadow. And the shadow hates being seen.

I could be convinced of this... would explain why he wanted to totally wipe out all traces of Hill and Clay's existence. I never bought the BS story of 'disappearing' evidence. He could just as easily have buried them with the same amount sweat it took him to burn them. He went a step too far, IMO

 

[InagoRaida]

IMO
Definitely wouldn't be pro bono however in high profile cases, often a deal is done on the fees bc the Defence gets cache for taking and running a case.
Who knows what the deal is in fact.
Either way as you said before normal life is done and was always done once he harmed another human being.
I was thinking about ancilary means of income; ie. a book etc.
This wouldn't work as a conviction (and there will be one) and GL's method of disposal of the victims rule that out.
Has GL given DD proprietry rights over the story as part of a deal for fees?

Very interesting comments Pamcake! Yes i imagine there is financial concession from Dann in exchange for the Publicity, but that possibility of the assignment of rights is a good point/possibility?