Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[nut]

I reckon he would have burnt the bodies too… getting rid of his DNA

 

[Kurve]

makes sense … probably much easier dragging a body around in a sleeping bag

Easier again if he wrapped rope around them and tied it off. They might have even been waterproof.

 

[RachieRach]

They looked for the sleeping bag zippers and couldn't find them, same with Russell's boots where they expected to find evidence of the soles.

They might not have had sleeping bags, just a doona, pretty hard to have a cuddle when your both zipped up lol just a thought

 

[footscray1973]

They might not have had sleeping bags, just a doona, pretty hard to have a cuddle when your both zipped up lol just a thought

Yeah, but haven't the missing sleeping bags been part of the discussion all along? Hill's family and mates would know if he used a sleeping bag or not, and police would then know whether to search for them (assuming she had one as well).

 

[footscray1973]

I reckon he would have burnt the bodies too… getting rid of his DNA

That could complicate things. That drone is key as well - wonder if he was smart enough to dispose of it separately, or burn it completely. Then again, with his other decisions, it could be at his house, or even sold on Gumtree! (as unlikely as that is).

The drone and Hill's phone would compliment each other as evidence, but will they be with the bodies? And I can't remember, but Clay's phone is missing too, right? May not hold as much relevance as Hill's phone, but you never know.

 

[Kurve]

Unless they find DNA evidence in the Patrol, they don't appear to have much at all at this stage but for CCTV he was on the road and he doesn't have anything to gain by telling the police where the bodies are because that will absolutely get him convicted, with or without anything else. Imo.

 

[Kurve]

60 Minutes Show done back in April confirms Hill's drone was seen flying over campsites and the Bush Worker thought this was disrespectful.

How did the bush worker know it was Hill's drone flying over his campsite? This information might tend to put the bush worker who admits to being annoyed, in the frame as a suspect.

A good lawyer which Lynn will have if it goes to trial, might work out a way to use that in the defence.

 

[zedx]

Bradley John Murdoch(?) and the Peter Falconio case the most famous probably.

Forgot who mentioned it a couple of pages ago but I'd never thought of the possibility that Carol was killed first and Russell second. Actually makes more sense if the first death was a genuine accident.

Bradley John Murdoch(?) and the Peter Falconio - were their digital devices tracked??

 

[Zidane98]

A lot of newer cars have gps running in the background now too.

GPS doesn't send out a signal, only receives a signal. Otherwise all our smartphones would also be satphones which they are definitely not. Some cars are equipped with a sim card built in, these are the only cars that are trackable as they communicate with cell towers within range.

 

[Zidane98]

And yet without the cctv footage he (Alleged) might have got away with it!

If the perp had of stayed camping in the valley for another few days, not disturbed and burnt the couple's campsite plus exited via a southerly route where there aren't cameras he most likely definitely gets away with it.


What got him was the panicked dash to leave on the Friday night plus the burning of their campsite which raised suspicions.

 

[Zidane98]

How did the bush worker know it was Hill's drone flying over his campsite? This information might tend to put the bush worker who admits to being annoyed, in the frame as a suspect.

A good lawyer which Lynn will have if it goes to trial, might work out a way to use that in the defence.

Good point. He has just admitted that he knew they were flying drones and that it was pissing him off. If Lynn doesn't make an admission the coppers will have to show they've thoroughly investigated all possible suspects before prosecution. That will mean this guy will probably have to be investigated.


Of course we are all assuming GL isn't admitting anything but not sure that's feasible considering he has (allegedly) given the coppers the location of the burial site.

 

[Zidane98]

Unless they find DNA evidence in the Patrol, they don't appear to have much at all at this stage but for CCTV he was on the road and he doesn't have anything to gain by telling the police where the bodies are because that will absolutely get him convicted, with or without anything else. Imo.

They might have GL's DNA evidence on their vehicle. That would be enough, after all neither of their phones or drone were located.


Or they traced the gas bottle that started the campsite fire back to a purchase made by him. They must have something like that to have him giving up the burial site location. Or anything that links him to either their vehicle or their campsite.

 

[Kwality]

Of course we are all assuming GL isn't admitting anything but not sure that's feasible considering he has (allegedly) given the coppers the location of the burial site.

What is his legal status at the moment?

 

[footscray1973]

If the perp had of stayed camping in the valley for another few days, not disturbed and burnt the couple's campsite plus exited via a southerly route where there aren't cameras he most likely definitely gets away with it.


What got him was the panicked dash to leave on the Friday night plus the burning of their campsite which raised suspicions.

Hadn't Hill's family had already raised the alarm as he was usually in contact with radio mates or family daily, or every second day? Don't think the perp had days up his sleeve, and also probably wasn't to know if Hill/Clay were expecting friends to meet/contact them.

He must have had reason to burn the campsite, or at least in his mind he did. If there was evidence there, he couldn't leave it as it was, assuming his DNA must have been involved. I agree with you even if the murder method was obvious, but he wasn't compromised, he could have left it as it was, but still probably would still want to high-tail it our of there. Next morning may have been too late though, as more chance of others placing him in the general area in daylight.

I'm not convinced there's any way he leaves without raising suspicion though, even if he moved elsewhere for a few days - except for maybe that CCTV image? Could the police have tracked him down without it? Assuming they didn't have it, and no one recorded his plates or a clear description of the Patrol, would they eventually work their way through anyone in a Patrol who was a regular camper in the area? Would the media release have been "we're keen to speak to anyone driving a Patrol who was there on such and such dates", and would someone he knows have said "hey mate, isn't that where you go, and you drive a Patrol"? I suppose if he's lucky, and disposed of the trailer with no traceable transaction, and there is no DNA of the victims on the Patrol, he might have stood a chance.

Edit: missed your post about the gas bottle while posting mine, good point, a lot may come down to either his DNA on their vehicle/bodies, or their DNA on his Patrol and/or trailer.

 

[Kurve]

They might have GL's DNA evidence on their vehicle. That would be enough, after all neither of their phones or drone were located.


Or they traced the gas bottle that started the campsite fire back to a purchase made by him. They must have something like that to have him giving up the burial site location. Or anything that links him to either their vehicle or their campsite.

They've got something else we don't know about yet, I agree. I know it's been suggested he's told them where the bodies are and of course I could be wrong but I'm leaning towards thinking atm that he hasn't.

 

[footscray1973]

They've got something else we don't know about yet, I agree. I know it's been suggested he's told them where the bodies are and of course I could be wrong but I'm leaning towards thinking atm that he hasn't.

If he hasn't told them, what "something else" would they need to be able to pinpoint a search area for the bodies? Did someone spot him, even in the dark, in the Grant Historical area? Is there a device that sent out a ping before the battery died, at the burial site? Seems relatively specific search area, even if still large in itself, relative to the greater area he could have disposed of them.

 

[Zidane98]

If he hasn't told them, what "something else" would they need to be able to pinpoint a search area for the bodies? Did someone spot him, even in the dark, in the Grant Historical area? Is there a device that sent out a ping before the battery died, at the burial site? Seems relatively specific search area, even if still large in itself, relative to the greater area he could have disposed of them.

Is there mobile reception around the grant historic area? Maybe they've been able to recover historical location data from his phone accounts of his movements when in mobile range. IIRC there is reception along ridgelines and some of the higher peaks in the general area. Obviously no reception in valley areas.

Or even they were able to recover historical location data from one of or both of victim's phones that he left on when moving their bodies. And if that data matched the data on perp's phone that's pretty conclusive evidence he had them with him at the time.

It would depend on their being enough mobile phone reception to track his movements though.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

How many CCTV cameras would be out in that area? Surely there can't just be the one random camera that he just happened to be captured on? And if so, how can they prove that Mr. Lynn was the only person in the area at that time?

 

[Zidane98]

Telstra 3g coverage of Grant Historic area. The area itself is between Crooked River, Wonnungarra & Cowa. Pretty much no reception in the area but plenty of reception in the areas around it. If the perp had his phone on it would have left a breadcrums trail of his movements in the area on the day (assuming like everyone else he has a maps or google maps account setup).


Maybe the last ping they got from his device or couples devices was along one of the tracks approaching the area. And maybe when his phone reappeared hours later but theirs didn't that would be pretty good evidence they are buried somewhere within the grant historical area.


I don't see any other feasible way that they could have located a possible burial site without perp making an admission.

 

[L756]

Zidane98. Quote:

Is there mobile reception around the grant historic area? Maybe they've been able to recover historical location data from his phone accounts of his movements when in mobile range. IIRC there is reception along ridgelines and some of the higher peaks in the general area. Obviously no reception in valley areas.

Or even they were able to recover historical location data from one of or both of victim's phones that he left on when moving their bodies. And if that data matched the data on perp's phone that's pretty conclusive evidence he had them with him at the time.

It would depend on their being enough mobile phone reception to track his movements though.



This sounds feasible. And would it matter whether or not he turned the victims' phones off? Thinking of the Theo Hayez case where phones can be tracked even when turned off


(I clicked 'quote' re: your comment but your comment didn't show at the commencement of my reply. There's a minus sign before the 'quote'. Is that normal? If not, anyone know how to rectify it, thanks in advance)

 

[Zidane98]

This sounds feasible. And would it matter whether or not he turned the victims' phones off? Thinking of the Theo Hayez case where phones can be tracked even when turned off

Phones can't be tracked when they are off, that's a myth. Theo Hayez' phone was on and they were able to recover his movements by guessing his google account password.

 

[Zidane98]

How many CCTV cameras would be out in that area? Surely there can't just be the one random camera that he just happened to be captured on? And if so, how can they prove that Mr. Lynn was the only person in the area at that time?

Out around Grant HA? I'd say next to none. Nearest CCTV would be in Dargo or Hotham.

 

[imho]

snipped ... that CCTV image? Could the police have tracked him down without it? Assuming they didn't have it, and no one recorded his plates or a clear description of the Patrol, would they eventually work their way through anyone in a Patrol who was a regular camper in the area? Would the media release have been "we're keen to speak to anyone driving a Patrol who was there on such and such dates", and would someone he knows have said "hey mate, isn't that where you go, and you drive a Patrol"? I suppose if he's lucky, and disposed of the trailer with no traceable transaction, and there is no DNA of the victims on the Patrol, he might have stood a chance.

if he did sell the trailer through gumtree i would think the buyer must be traceable somehow through their site. his phone records from the time might also reveal the buyer, unless he simply published his address in the ad.


he may have been identified as one of those in the area at the time of the disappearance, or perhaps he came forward himself, because i did read somewhere that he HAD been spoken to late last year, and that he had told investigators he had not seen the elderly couple. sorry, i'v no link to verify that info.


imho

 

[Kurve]

I don't see any other feasible way that they could have located a possible burial site without perp making an admission.

There might be a gap in tracking him and it's been pinpointed to the Grant area or, he explained a time gap by saying he stopped at the Grant Historic camp site.

Any of them might have been wearing some sort of high tech watch, the cops have been solving crimes with information contained in people's smart watches for ages. The Apple watch will even send out alerts if it detects you fell over and ask if you need an ambulance.

 

[L756]

Phones can't be tracked when they are off, that's a myth. Theo Hayez' phone was on and they were able to recover his movements by guessing his google account password.

Watched the Theo Hayez case on 60 minutes last week. Impression I gained from the tech expert was that Google has tools running in the background which continue to track phones even when the user thinks he's switched it off. I could be wrong. Someone else might have seen it and be able to clarify it. The same tech guy said Hayez' phone was turned off at point A, but he was able to track it around the headland and for quite some distance. He needed permission to access an additional piece of information which would then reveal potential hand-shakes between Hayez' phone and the phones of others who were in the same vicinity. But that permission was being withheld by a particular authority and this alone prevented furtherance of the case and possible identification of one or more individuals who were with Hazez that night.