Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Terrafirma]

Evidence that been led that Hill and Clay were in the Valley about the time of their deaths and Lynn also being in the Valley at the same time and camped in an approximate vicinity of each other.

Pray tell. whst evidence has been admitted to Court and cross examined for any altercation between the two?

Zilch

We have evidence that a drone was flying after about 15:00, the evidence of the weed sprayers?

What evidence has been tested in Court that it was flying later?

Zilch

We have evidence, again tested in an open Court, that Clay died of a shotgun slug to the head, whilst probably standing under the vehicle awning, not necessarily crouching, and possibly fired over the bonnet.

Lynn owned a shot gun and was deer hunting, where slugs are the only ammunition legally used for shot guns

If she was standing under the awning (not crouching), the jury may form the opinion that she had not been forwarned of Hill's death

We have evidence, that the campsite was burned, the bodies taken to another area about midnight and dumped. We have evidence that the bodies were left there and later revisited, burned and the bones crushed and scattered

We have evidence of Lynn being seen at Mt Hotham early the next day

Anything beyond that is based on Lynn's ROI

It is up to the jury to determine whether the passage of events in Lynn's ROI are an accurate representation of what happened and form the opinion that they were the actions of a reasonable man making a series of unfortunate decisions.

The average person has reasonable BS detectors, acceptance of "plausible" may not meet the entry level of "reasonable doubt" in the jury's collective mind

The Prosecution's and Defence's summaries are going to so important to the jury's deliberations, as they draw it all together

So from the paragraphs highlighted above I presume the jury will take into consideration his actions after the fact? As the prosecution says his actions afterwards are a version of implied guilt and this appears to be their main line of attack.

In the recording, Mr Lynn said in the months following he thought “someone would have found them” but when news reports said they remained missing he resolved to make “it go away”.

“I’ve got to finish this,” he said he thought.

“I drove back up there and set fire to them ... There’s nothing there, there’s nothing to find, I’m sorry.”

What's interesting to me is I haven't heard about the demeanour of the prosecutor Daniel Porceddu vs Dermot Dan. Dan has been aggressive at times let's hope Porceddu can convince the jury in his closing with something powerful.

 

[Kurve]

Definitely. I've said many times the prosecution is going to have to explain RH's death because it gets much easier to sell a theory that GL then decided to silence her as a witness.

Personally I don't buy a scenario where GL just decides to blow the elderly couple away simply because they were (or mostly RH) annoying him and/or hostile towards him because of his deer hunting / RH's drone flying.

Lynn was under some sort of threat, not necessarily his life. Exposure of some kind imo.

We can see the extremes he went to later to protect his career, his title, his money and his lifestyle. That's the motive. imo.

 

[Spectrix]

Definitely. I've said many times the prosecution is going to have to explain RH's death because it gets much easier to sell a theory that GL then decided to silence her as a witness.

Personally I don't buy a scenario where GL just decides to blow the elderly couple away simply because they were (or mostly RH) annoying him and/or hostile towards him because of his deer hunting / RH's drone flying.

I have the same thoughts here. While GLs version of events sounds unlikely, the prosecution has failed to demonstrate that their version is any more plausible.

Regardless of what I think of GLs actions after the deaths, I would have trouble supporting a double murder verdict as a juror based on the evidence provided.

 

[GardenGnome]

I was in court today. The prosecution admits their case relies on the accused’s conduct after the deaths.

I won’t go into detail about what the judge, prosecutor and defence counsel spoke about after the jury were dismissed for the day but there is no evidence that can prove beyond reasonable doubt that two murders took place. I don’t care what people’s opinions are, you need to focus on the facts as they are admitted into court.

*EDIT: I should clarify; no evidence provided at this stage

I’m interested to know about this exchange… would you be able to give some details now? You may prefer not to.

 

[GardenGnome]

Lynn was under some sort of threat, not necessarily his life. Exposure of some kind imo.

We can see the extremes he went to later to protect his career, his title, his money and his lifestyle. That's the motive. imo.

Yep. He seems to re-iterate the impact/consequences on his own life, career etc, with little to no mention of or remorse for RH/CC or their lives, families etc. it’s chilling.

Gives a real callous vibe of ‘shoot ‘em and move on’, then a sense that he was annoyed by the nuisance of needing to go back and finish it off.

this sentiment alone shows very clearly his lack of regard or respect for human life. It’s sickening.

 

[GardenGnome]

We haven’t heard any updates from highcountry for a while.

 

[blink185]

I now see why Lynn’s KC wanted the interview struck from the trial – it is extraordinarily damning for Lynn.


Lynn’s concocted story played back in his interview is unreal – it is exclusively self-serving, with zero remorse shown.
The abhorrent actions after their deaths and of course the multiple opportunities he had to come clean if this truly was a terrible accident as he says, will be seen straight thru by jury.

How could this fairy-tale put sufficient “reasonable doubt” in the mind of any sensible juror to say he’s not guilty of at least one murder?

The most likely explanation based on all the evidence presented - is that he and Hill scuffled, Hill is stabbed (intentionally? We’ll never know that) and the start of Lynn’s cover up begins when Clay is shot in the head, in cold blood, cowering between their tent and Hill’s 4wd.

 

[taz01]

Will the jury get to hear any of the secret recordings or are those withheld from evidence?

 

[Sir_Loin]

I now see why Lynn’s KC wanted the interview struck from the trial – it is extraordinarily damning for Lynn.


Lynn’s concocted story played back in his interview is unreal – it is exclusively self-serving, with zero remorse shown.
The abhorrent actions after their deaths and of course the multiple opportunities he had to come clean if this truly was a terrible accident as he says, will be seen straight thru by jury.

How could this fairy-tale put sufficient “reasonable doubt” in the mind of any sensible juror to say he’s not guilty of at least one murder?

The most likely explanation based on all the evidence presented - is that he and Hill scuffled, Hill is stabbed (intentionally? We’ll never know that) and the start of Lynn’s cover up begins when Clay is shot in the head, in cold blood, cowering between their tent and Hill’s 4wd.

Nailed it.

Prosecutors have to prove it though. It’s very circumstantial. That’s not a bad thing jury just has to buy it.

 

[GrayRanga]

Definitely. I've said many times the prosecution is going to have to explain RH's death because it gets much easier to sell a theory that GL then decided to silence her as a witness.

Personally I don't buy a scenario where GL just decides to blow the elderly couple away simply because they were (or mostly RH) annoying him and/or hostile towards him because of his deer hunting / RH's drone flying.

Ahhh, you're working on the premise of a reasonable person.

There has been a few cases in Victoria's criminal history, where someboby with a gun has decided "What if ...." or "An easy target ..."

To take someone's life except in the case of self preservation or real, palpable fear for your life it is an anathema to most reasonable people

Change from fear of life to fear of your live style (as Kurve's post above), especially to someone who is going out to shoot Bambi's mum as a lifestyle choice and a target is a target and a clean, quick kill are bonus points

One of the people who taught me firearms use was a Vietnam Vet; I had successfully shot a rabbit and he asked sarcastically me how did it feel to shoot a cute little bunny.

I answered that once it was in the sights, it was a target and I was concentrating on that. His response was "it's the same in a fire fight"

 

[josephine666]

Yep. He seems to re-iterate the impact/consequences on his own life, career etc, with little to no mention of or remorse for RH/CC or their lives, families etc. it’s chilling.

Gives a real callous vibe of ‘shoot ‘em and move on’, then a sense that he was annoyed by the nuisance of needing to go back and finish it off.

this sentiment alone shows very clearly his lack of regard or respect for human life. It’s sickening.

Spot on. Allegedly he panicked. I can understand him leaving the scene and not calling authorities in a panic, even taking the drone and destroying it. But in this scenario, why on earth would you take the bodies from the scene - how do the bodies identify his involvement? Why desecrate the bodies after the fact? There is only one reasonable answer - the bodies held evidence contrary to his account.

There are just so many holes and contradictions in Lynn's ROI. So, according to Lynn, Hill walked over (barefoot) to Lynn's camp, took the gun and ammunition from his car with wide open doors and music blaring (but Lynn still heard rustling over the blaring music), watched Hill, in the dark, load a gun he was unfamiliar with as he walked back to his own campsite, then went over to confront him, claims Hill told him he was going to take the (now loaded) gun to the police, shoots the gun in the air at which point Lynn decides that's a good time for a wrestle?

Just catching up on the ROI - Lynn claims the knife was a kitchen knife with a plastic handle that burned in the fire. What happened to the remaining blade? It should be there amongst the rubble left by the fire. Or does he claim he was able to pick through the rubble, find the blade and then ditch it?

Lynn's account has Hill dying at Lynn's campsite. I think that may be true. I am (now) much more convinced that Hill was shot first (altercation, accidentally in a struggle, it doesn't matter) and then Clay hunted down and killed. He has shown utter callous disregard for the victims families, to me it is just further evidence what he is capable of should there be a witness that might cause a little inconvenience to his life.

 

[Run n Spread]

I have the same thoughts here. While GLs version of events sounds unlikely, the prosecution has failed to demonstrate that their version is any more plausible.

Regardless of what I think of GLs actions after the deaths, I would have trouble supporting a double murder verdict as a juror based on the evidence provided.

I'm the same. If anything the case actually supports GLs view.
At a minimum it's involuntary manslaughter for CC but not guilty for RH.
Prosecution needs to.tie the threads together but hasn't been able to

 

[Run n Spread]

Very little actual evidence surrounding how two people died based on what I saw in court today. The prosecution admits their case relies on the accused’s conduct after the deaths.

I won’t go into detail about what the judge, prosecutor and defence counsel spoke about after the jury were dismissed for the day but there is no evidence that can prove beyond reasonable doubt that two murders took place. I don’t care what people’s opinions are, you need to focus on the facts as they are admitted into court.

*EDIT: I should clarify; no evidence provided at this stage

This. Depends on the jury but you're right. A jury is the arbitration of facts. What can be proven beyond reasonable doubts. Opinions don't matter. Nor does filling in the blanks he was a trained pilot he would've done this or did he do this. Irrelevant.
Forensics need to.be called to go over search and material near CC.
If glass metal isn't establish it strengths their thread GL is guilty of CCs murder

 

[champagnegirl]

Why does crouching make it less likely to be accidental?

I can only think that if she was crouching, she was trying to take cover due to an altercation happening at that time between Hill and Lynn. She ducked down by the closest form of cover
which would be a natural reaction if there was a physical tussle between two men happening right then. I think if she was upright with a gun being pointed in her direction, she would run as far away as she could. Maybe that’s how the reasoning has come about that Hill was killed first and she knew she could be next. I’d be hot footing it rather than staying close to the action. IMO

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

and then Clay hunted down and killed.

During the struggle, Russell might have yelled, “Carol, get on the radio, call [the friend] and tell him to call the police!” Then he was shot or stabbed and GL shot Carol as she was running to the car to get on the radio. IMO

 

[taz01]

"None of my decisions — whichever pathway I took — was going to make any difference to those two," he told police.

"So, yep, I tried to save myself." these comments taken from an article from the abc, He doesn't seem to show any emotion, his only thoughts are for himself, how it will affect his life and how he had to cover up the deaths, so he could just get on with his life, no thoughts for RH and CC families, in his mind it made no difference to them as they were dead, no feelings or emotions for them as they are gone, also no thoughts or emotions for the families left with out answers, - Very close friends of mine have a missing family member - presumed murdered, it is the not knowing that is one of the hardest things to deal with, I honestly can not believe his ROI, he is so cold, the fact that he recalls all the little details after almost 2 years, like where his hands were placed, which hand RH had the knife in etc, it is all lies, he has rehursed his story over and over for almost 2 years and destroyed their bodies so it can not be proven otherwise, he has been very calculating in his methods to just make it all go away.

 

[GardenGnome]

I can only think that if she was crouching, she was trying to take cover due to an altercation happening at that time between Hill and Lynn. She ducked down by the closest form of cover
which would be a natural reaction if there was a physical tussle between two men happening right then. I think if she was upright with a gun being pointed in her direction, she would run as far away as she could. Maybe that’s how the reasoning has come about that Hill was killed first and she knew she could be next. I’d be hot footing it rather than staying close to the action. IMO

Any of the possible positions for CC as suggested above. Or taking into account the fight/flight/freeze instinct… CC wouldn’t have been in a position to fight, there was likely limited option to escape/flee/run away so perhaps on seeing the gun, knife, scuttle… fill in the blanks… her default was to freeze in shock?! thinking about what these final moments may have been, gives me sweaty palms.

I recall a while back that the prosecution was putting a lot of weight into ballistics and drawing up possible crime-scene scenarios.

It seems that Dann grilled Gelatly and that part of the prosecution case was (excuse the pun) shot down by the opposition.

 

[Royces Hart]

The fallen tree where GL cremated their remains, was pretty close to a road/track?

For those familiar with the place, how often would you expect someone to pass by in an area like that?

Surely to destroy their remains so thoroughly, would require a pretty intense fire and for a decent period of time. He must have pretty nervous tending to a random fire, hoping not to attract any attention.

 

[taz01]

I think that they may have been sitting under the awning of the vehicle, that would present as CC in a crouched position, maybe he had dealt with RH and then come over the front of the vehicle and shot CC whilst she was sitting under the awning, chairs are then thrown on to the tent when he has cleaned up and everything is set on fire.

 

[Kurve]

Lynn introducing the mirror in to the incident where Clay was shot, might be part of his defence. I read somewhere he said the shot went straight through the mirror and somewhere else it was ricochet which indicates in my understanding of ricochet, the bullet skimmed the outer edges of the mirror and altered the trajectory.

There's probably no way to prove whether the mirror was shot right through or not.

What he's probably going to say is, that he couldn't have been hunting Clay down because the mirror would have obstructed his view of her head.

 

[GladdyDee]

The Age today reports GL tape pt 2 as follows

Lynn said that after the pair died, he panicked and knew that if he reported it to police, he would lose his career and memberships to exclusive clubs he had recently been accepted into.

In touch with reality?
Able to react as a normal person?

Nup nup
IMO

 

[Kurve]

The fallen tree where GL cremated their remains, was pretty close to a road/track?

For those familiar with the place, how often would you expect someone to pass by in an area like that?

Surely to destroy their remains so thoroughly, would require a pretty intense fire and for a decent period of time. He must have pretty nervous tending to a random fire, hoping not to attract any attention.

If I was the cops I'd be looking right in to his history from childhood on, for signs of arson.

 

[champagnegirl]

During the struggle, Russell might have yelled, “Carol, get on the radio, call [the friend] and tell him to call the police!” Then he was shot or stabbed and GL shot Carol as she was running to the car to get on the

The fallen tree where GL cremated their remains, was pretty close to a road/track?

For those familiar with the place, how often would you expect someone to pass by in an area like that?

Surely to destroy their remains so thoroughly, would require a pretty intense fire and for a decent period of time. He must have pretty nervous tending to a random fire, hoping not to attract any attention.

I read

The fallen tree where GL cremated their remains, was pretty close to a road/track?

For those familiar with the place, how often would you expect someone to pass by in an area like that?

Surely to destroy their remains so thoroughly, would require a pretty intense fire and for a decent period of time. He must have pretty nervous tending to a random fire, hoping not to attract any attention.

I read somewhere that the area where Lynn burned the remains was also a tourist attraction area. So yes agree, he was taking a big chance setting up an intense long burning fire there. Nothing like a tourist 4WD convoy stopping
by for a friendly hello. He says he used 2 litres of kerosene which wouldn’t seem like much compared to the intense and prolonged fire heat he would need. Strangely, he says the next morning there was nothing left except small fragments. I wonder whether that was how it really happened. He said he had planned on tossing any large bones into a river but in the end, there were none. It just gets worse. Totally devoid of any empathy, decency or remorse, so it would seem. All IMO. Can’t even begin to image the total detachment required.

 

[Terrafirma]

How are these for statements by Lynn.!

Accused murderer Greg Lynn told police he burned the remains of missing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay after he realised his plan to disappear off the radar was unravelling.

Lynn told police once he realised they were both dead, he used his experience as an airline pilot to formulate a plan to "save" himself.

"The objective was not to make them disappear, it was to make me disappear,"

The airline pilot said he tried to go back to normal life but he started receiving some odd questions and then police came to his home in July 2020.
"I realised it was unravelling," Lynn said.
"I realised I had to go back ... I had to wait for the (COVID-19) lockdowns to finish and the roads to open up, and I steeled myself for the task."

If I was a juror I'd be reading this as a confession of guilt.

 

[independant witness]

Lynn introducing the mirror in to the incident where Clay was shot, might be part of his defence. I read somewhere he said the shot went straight through the mirror and somewhere else it was ricochet which indicates in my understanding of ricochet, the bullet skimmed the outer edges of the mirror and altered the trajectory.

There's probably no way to prove whether the mirror was shot right through or not.

What he's probably going to say is, that he couldn't have been hunting Clay down because the mirror would have obstructed his view of her head.

Interesting that Carol Clay was in her pjs. G.L. also said his loud music must have disturbed them in their tent "having fun". maybe there are some kernals of truth here that might add to the scenario? G.L. has said in great detail what he stood to lose..the initial altercation must have been ugly. Just have to assume that whatever R.H. caught him out on was serious.