Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[independant witness]

Yes likewise! Several in the public gallery looked at each other increduously when this was stated. He also mentioned that the police collected multiple bags aftering "raking the site" in their initial visit, then made quite a point about the evidence pic of the slug looked like it had been "placed" on top of foliage.

It belied the humilty etc that I'm sure Dann suggested he show. Also I noted that Dann prompted him to say please. Obviously used to being in charge.

 

[Zidane98]

Maybe more concerned about losing her cheap flights just like Lynn's normal life.

Such an inconvenience this court stuff.

Was there anything stopping her divorcing GL immediately upon arrest to protect her share of the family assets? Instead of long drawn out judicial process surely it would have been better for all if GL entered a plea for manslaughter x 2 and was put away for a significant period of time. Justice for the families, don't suffer the humiliation of their loved one's private lives being the discussion of tabloid gossip.


Sometimes I believe the only winners out of these cases are the lawyers. Earn stupid amounts of money and also get future business from the publicity.

 

[MiguelM]

Was there anything stopping her divorcing GL immediately upon arrest to protect her share of the family assets? Instead of long drawn out judicial process surely it would have been better for all if GL entered a plea for manslaughter x 2 and was put away for a significant period of time. Justice for the families, don't suffer the humiliation of their loved one's private lives being the discussion of tabloid gossip.


Sometimes I believe the only winners out of these cases are the lawyers. Earn stupid amounts of money and also get future business from the publicity.

And the media!

 

[taz01]

I still do not believe for one minute a bare footed RH goes to lynn's unlocked vehicle and takes the shotgun, then chooses the correct magazine for that gun, leaving a rifle and another magazine in the vehicle, if you are taking someone's gun you would have to know you would piss them off, is anybody really going to do this?

 

[Zidane98]

And the media!

Definitely, the amount of clicks they've generated is ridiculous. And we are all guilty of being part of that in this thread.


We'll obviously find out post jury decision just how many discussions there were about a possible deal being done between the DPP & Dann.

 

[Zidane98]

I still do not believe for one minute a bare footed RH goes to lynn's unlocked vehicle and takes the shotgun, then chooses the correct magazine for that gun, leaving a rifle and another magazine in the vehicle, if you are taking someone's gun you would have to know you would piss them off, is anybody really going to do this?

Agree, this doesn't seem likely. It also seems utterly unlikely that GL would simply kill an elderly couple over a disagreement. That also seems completely implausible. Nothing makes sense with this case at all, why would 2 different parties completely unknown to each other even get into a confrontation in remote Wonnangatta where there's often kilometers between campers enjoying the serenity of the place?

I'd imagine the actual truth is probably a highly unlikely chain of events that ended in tragedy that nobody would believe if it were written as a fictional story. It really sucks that GL is the only one that knows what went down and the reality is he has a very clear motive to massage the truth for his own benefit.


As the old saying goes, truth is often stranger than fiction.

 

[jason_recliner]

And the media!

And Big Footy!

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I think the gun may have already been loaded, so that IF Russell got hold of it (somehow in the dark he knew it was there) and Lynn wrestled him for it, it may well have gone off, killing Carol. She could even have still been in the tent or near it, crawling out maybe. Russell rushed to her and Lynn followed, which may have been when Russell grabbed a knife from his equipment, turned to ward Lynn off and in the ensuing struggle Russell was stabbed - whether accidentally or deliberately we'll never know.

The above scenario does paint the killings as "accidents" but they would never have happened but for Lynn and his loaded gun. Him saying Russell loaded the gun sounds like Lynn absolving himself. Leaving a loaded gun unsupervised and accessible is heinous.

IMO

 

[Zidane98]

And Big Footy!

Yep. Kurve getting millions of hits in the crime section these days. It's like a haven for true crime addicts!

 

[Zidane98]

I might add my own experience with hunters out bush.

Was camping with kids at Big River years ago. We were just chilling when a hunter appeared out of nowhere with his hound & gun drawn.

I didn't say a thing and he moved on. I'm glad I didn't have a go at him for busting through our camp!

 

[Zidane98]

I think the gun may have already been loaded, so that IF Russell got hold of it (somehow in the dark he knew it was there) and Lynn wrestled him for it, it may well have gone off, killing Carol. She could even have still been in the tent or near it, crawling out maybe. Russell rushed to her and Lynn followed, which may have been when Russell grabbed a knife from his equipment, turned to ward Lynn off and in the ensuing struggle Russell was stabbed - whether accidentally or deliberately we'll never know.

The above scenario does paint the killings as "accidents" but they would never have happened but for Lynn and his loaded gun. Him saying Russell loaded the gun sounds like Lynn absolving himself. Leaving a loaded gun unsupervised and accessible is heinous.

IMO

Yes, leaving a loaded gun unattended is horrendous negligence.

GL saying RH loaded the weapon is possibly an attempt to mitigate manslaughter of CC from voluntary to involuntary. Although a sentence of 25 years is technically possible for involuntary manslaughter it usually ends up around the 5-10 year mark at sentencing.

 

[Kurve]

Yep. Kurve getting millions of hits in the crime section these days. It's like a haven for true crime addicts!

It's pretty good for a sub forum on a footy blog, the quality and levels of discussion generally and in here particularly is quite high.

So, well done all.

 

[independant witness]

Agree, this doesn't seem likely. It also seems utterly unlikely that GL would simply kill an elderly couple over a disagreement. That also seems completely implausible. Nothing makes sense with this case at all, why would 2 different parties completely unknown to each other even get into a confrontation in remote Wonnangatta where there's often kilometers between campers enjoying the serenity of the place?

I'd imagine the actual truth is probably a highly unlikely chain of events that ended in tragedy that nobody would believe if it were written as a fictional story. It really sucks that GL is the only one that knows what went down and the reality is he has a very clear motive to massage the truth for his own benefit.


As the old saying goes, truth is often stranger than fiction.

 

[independant witness]

Absolutely spot on.

 

[LeChatNoir]

Ok, Those who said he was taking the stand to show more remorse might be correct.

I think his words are just that ... words. He talks about fear, panic, remorse, feeling sick etc but they are just words he uses to describe emotions and feelings he is incapable of experiencing. No person who genuinely feel any of these things would do what he did. Where is his overwhelming feeling of guilt? He is well practiced in victim blaming, and using strawman arguments, especially when it comes to Russell. A real piece of work is our boy Lynn.

 

[independant witness]

So interesting.. If there is that sort of information, it is a pity police/prosecution weren't able to use it. Falls into the category of prior convictions etc.

 

[LeChatNoir]

Agree, this doesn't seem likely. It also seems utterly unlikely that GL would simply kill an elderly couple over a disagreement. That also seems completely implausible. Nothing makes sense with this case at all, why would 2 different parties completely unknown to each other even get into a confrontation in remote Wonnangatta where there's often kilometers between campers enjoying the serenity of the place?

I'd imagine the actual truth is probably a highly unlikely chain of events that ended in tragedy that nobody would believe if it were written as a fictional story. It really sucks that GL is the only one that knows what went down and the reality is he has a very clear motive to massage the truth for his own benefit.


As the old saying goes, truth is often stranger than fiction.

What I love about this forum is the way people are so set in their beliefs. Nothing wrong with that. I think it is an admirable quality to not be capable of believing that someone would cold bloodily murder people for no reason or for a petty reason. But it does happen. And such people exist in our world, not just in movies. And such people are very good at hiding in plain site. If crime showed on a person's face... we'd have no mirrors!

 

[Awakening]

Yes, i share that view very much. He was very subdued, tried to show humility. One other thing, Ms Lynn was also very subdued, no OTT waving or gushing gestures, as in all my previous days of attendance. Very quiet, all subdued. Compared to previous days, it felt Mr AND Mrs had been counselled to be on best behaviour, maximum humility! I think Mrs. Was fi ding that very hard. With a full house yesterday, her and her entorage barged up the stairs of waiting public to be head of the line so she coulld get "her seat". Very bold, "more front than Myer" as one patron next to me commented. We are all different, but ifI was in that position, i'd be very low key, not trying to stand out, and talking in a crowd in a loud voice, seemingly wanting to be heard by those standing nearby.
Trying to get back there today for the legal arguments and directions debate between both Counsel and Justice Coucher. I think will be quite intriguing.

You’re back! I was worried murdery stuff had done murdery stuff to you.

 

[Zidane98]

What I love about this forum is the way people are so set in their beliefs. Nothing wrong with that. I think it is an admirable quality to not be capable of believing that someone would cold bloodily murder people for no reason or for a petty reason. But it does happen. And such people exist in our world, not just in movies. And such people are very good at hiding in plain site. If crime showed on a person's face... we'd have no mirrors!

Oh definitely. When it does happen there is usually evidence to suggest it is possible. Past offences, crimes etc. It's also possible for someone to commit such a heinous crime without having any record too but this is usually extremely rare. That's why for me with the evidence presented I don't see it likely that GL's going to murder an elderly couple in the middle of vast open Wonnangatta over a simple disagreement. Especially when we know that GL was there already and they stayed the night on the 19th with no issues. Now if further information came to light that suggested otherwise than I could be convinced of other scenarios. I try to look at the known facts of what happened and go off those only. I imagine the judge will be instructing the jury to do the same.

 

[jason_recliner]

So interesting.. If there is that sort of information, it is a pity police/prosecution weren't able to use it. Falls into the category of prior convictions etc.

yes, I don't understand why prior convictions and behaviors are not able to be used as evidence against somebody. If somebody undertakes a criminal activity, they are more likely to do another criminal activity than somebody who does the right thing.

 

[taz01]

Oh definitely. When it does happen there is usually evidence to suggest it is possible. Past offences, crimes etc. It's also possible for someone to commit such a heinous crime without having any record too but this is usually extremely rare. That's why for me with the evidence presented I don't see it likely that GL's going to murder an elderly couple in the middle of vast open Wonnangatta over a simple disagreement. Especially when we know that GL was there already and they stayed the night on the 19th with no issues. Now if further information came to light that suggested otherwise than I could be convinced of other scenarios. I try to look at the known facts of what happened and go off those only. I imagine the judge will be instructing the jury to do the same.

he said in his own words what he had to loose, any firearms offence could mean he looses a lot, his memberships and job obviously meant a lot to him, clearly the elderly couple meant nothing to him, he even said they were gone, it didn't matter to them, not for one moment thinking of their families left behind, he is cold and heart less, to go on and do what he did to those bodies, shows how heart less he is, I still can not believe his attitude towards them, it is hard to prove anything really as he has destroyed all the evidence, even the evidence that could prove his story.

 

[Kurve]

So interesting.. If there is that sort of information, it is a pity police/prosecution weren't able to use it. Falls into the category of prior convictions etc.

The jury isn't to know of a defendant's prior convictions as it can taint with bias, priors are to be taken in to consideration at sentencing by the judge.

That is, unless the prosecution can successfully have the judge permit as propensity or tendency evidence. This is really difficult to do in front of a jury, easier judge only trials.

 

[Zidane98]

The jury isn't to know of a defendant's prior convictions as it can taint with bias, priors are to be taken in to consideration at sentencing by the judge.

That is, unless the prosecution can successfully have the judge permit as propensity or tendency evidence. This is really difficult to do in front of a jury, easier judge only trials.

Can the prosecution bring up known prior convictions if it's related to the trial? I imagine this is all agreed pre trial in hearings.

 

[FranklinBluth]

He did answer a line of questions from the Prs. yesterday that was directed about lying to his wife. He stated until yesterday, ge had not discussed it durectly with his wife or kids...and ultimately conceded in his answer to Prs. pressurung.."yes, yes, i have lied to my wife. I have lied to my wife"

To which the prs said something along the lines of 'so you are comfortable to lie when you deem it necessary'... A very good point, well made. How can we trust that he is telling the truth NOW when he has lied so many times in the past?

 

[Kurve]

I still do not believe for one minute a bare footed RH goes to lynn's unlocked vehicle and takes the shotgun, then chooses the correct magazine for that gun, leaving a rifle and another magazine in the vehicle, if you are taking someone's gun you would have to know you would piss them off, is anybody really going to do this?

That didn't happen imo.

There's a small possibility that Lynn's music was annoying them and Hill's gone up there to get him to turn the music down and he's approached the car going too close to Lynn's guns, Lynn's reacted straight away and stabbed him with his own knife.

There's been some mention of a particular knife that Lynn uses and has on his waist at all times. I'll try and find it.