Opinion Sack Hinkley 8 - "Ask me in August"

[GremioPower]

Hahahahaha! I’m late to the party, but, mate, what on hell!?

This is “Sack Hinkley EIGHT”. This thread has outlived a Minor Premiership already. A R11 Top-2 is nothing. People are nuts.

On the arguments, I really don’t get the double standards. We are simultaneously:

- such a great club that missing finals 5 years straight (finishing 13th, 10th, 10th, 16th, 14th) is astonishingly bad (“record-breaking” even, according to some); AND ALSO

- such a low club that making finals every now and then, without bottom out, it should be enough to keep us all full of joy forever.

I can’t see how Port could be both. If anyone could show me what I’m missing, I would appreciate it a lot.

 

[edgie]

The tosser hasn't answered me about why Peter Schwab didn't get renewed despite him being a largely successful coach let down by a list in transition. He's a troll.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[naysayer]

You have absolutely no idea. The culture of this football club was built in part on the expectations of the supporter base. Plenty of ex players are on record as fearing the direct feedback given by supporters for not performing to that expectation. We unapologetically demand success and that feedback loop between club and supporters is (was?) a big part of the club's ethos.

I'm not talking about expectations of your team's performance. I have no problem if you think Ken should go, or should've gone years ago. As a moderator I would draw a line at personally insulting players or staff, especially when it's just a cowardly pile-on. It's utterly pathetic, other boards wouldn't allow it. You're letting your own fanbase down.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

the problem now is that we have won 8 in a row, but the people that are blaming him for the losses arent giving him any credit for the wins. they are putting it all on Carr and the midfield.

people cant have it both ways.

Definitely, both sides take it too far.

For me I think the club has just found a system that works for this playing group.

In 2020 and 2021 we had Voss on the bench and Ken and Schoey in the box and that largely worked. Now we have Ken on the bench and Carr in the box and things are going well again. Its about having a system that plays to each coach's strengths.

 

[naysayer]

The tosser hasn't answered me about why Peter Schwab didn't get renewed despite him being a largely successful coach let down by a list in transition. He's a troll.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

Thought I did?

Listen, if Peter Schwab is a "largely successful coach", then Ken Hinkley is Jesus Christ.

47% win rate, one prelim. Finished off in 2004 with ten losses in a row, with an average losing margin of something like 50 points, if memory serves. Not to mention a list age profile that would make Geelong blush. And you wanted to know why he lost his job?

Edit: it's not nice, calling me a tosser. I just find it interesting in here, it's kind of like hanging out with lepers. I guess that makes me a bit like Jesus.

 

[GremioPower]

Just make sure you keep your promises not to attend games while Hinkley is coach, no matter what.

That's all I ask.

You can bet I’m doing it religiously!

 

[GremioPower]

A rare specimen in the wild here team, the poster who has been arrogantly wrong year in year out for a decade wants people to be held accountable for the things they write on an internet forum.

Janus has written a lot of right opinions in here. It’s undeniable!

He writes contradictory opinions. He’ll always be just as wrong as he’s right, but let’s not get stuck in technicalities…

 

[GremioPower]

You are beating a dead horse with these numpties. In their eyes- even if we win a flag it will be in spite of Hinkley.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Janus very specifically doesn't call Ken a good coach, basically ever. He talks in a lot of detail about different metrics and how we're doing at them and why doing well at certain metrics will make us successful. But i'm not sure he's made a direct argument that Ken is a good coach in many years now. His posting is generally in defence of Hinkley but it's basically Hinkley agnostic in it's content. Like the head coach doesn't matter and is the least important factor in winning a flag.

This guy is the other end of the Hinkley support spectrum, where he's just arguing that Hinkley has already been successful with the shallowest depth of knowledge imaginable.

Hes basically parroting Kane's arguments TBH. Wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be one of his kids.

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[Us against the rest]

After 11 years of proof that under our current coach we cannot progress, we get labelled as haters for wanting change.
This would not happen in Victoria, Hinkley would have been gone in 2017. This is mind boggling to the point that I am sick of my own club.

 

[zorbacles]

There is nothing wrong with wanting change.

I'm not a Hinkley supporter, I was very vocal wanting him gone last year and at the start of this year.

I'm not convinced he should stay still after the first half this year but it's obvious that something has changed and it's working.

The problem is that everyone ASSUMES it's him handing over the coaching to someone else. But no one here knows. Unless we have an undercover that is actually part of the football department leaking stuff to us.

I'm happy to take it on face value that he is still the head coach. Because that is the official role. Certainly he might be taking more on board from his assistants. But that's what a good head coach will do.

He has a history of good home and away performances, especially after bad years so the current season is true to form for Hinkley.

But as others have said also he needs to prove himself for the entire season including finals. The problem is, as mentioned, that even if we do win the flag this year, these people will still give him no credit and want his head on a stick. Because it's not him coaching. But if we do shit the bed again they will want his head on a stick. Because it's his fault. That is the contradiction that makes people look like fools. According to them Carr is coaching. So if we shit the bed they should also call for Carr's head. But they won't, they will be partying in the street that he was signed because Hinkley is gone and he was the reason.

If we fail, then Hinkley goes. If he succeeds then he must stay. I think the whole 10 years thing is irrelevant. Hardwick did it after 8. People were calling for his head too. If someone can do it at 8 there is no reason it can't be after 10.

There is also zero need for the this like stinkley, donuts, the crappy Photoshop's and the like. It is immature and an embarrassment to the club. If you can't make your argument without all the insults, then maybe your arguments isn't that great.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Contested Marx]

If we fail, then Hinkley goes. If he succeeds then he must stay.

Cool. He's already failed. Then he must go

I think the whole 10 years thing is irrelevant. Hardwick did it after 8. People were calling for his head too. If someone can do it at 8 there is no reason it can't be after 10.

The 10 years thing is more than relevant. It's precisely the problem. This is an unprecedented level of failure. No other coach has been at a club for this long without a grand final

There is also zero need for the this like stinkley, donuts, the crappy Photoshop's and the like. It is immature and an embarrassment to the club. If you can't make your argument without all the insults, then maybe your arguments isn't that great.

Maybe you should try it yourself, given your arguments aren't that great

 

[PowerLil]

There is nothing wrong with wanting change.

I'm not a Hinkley supporter, I was very vocal wanting him gone last year and at the start of this year.

I'm not convinced he should stay still after the first half this year but it's obvious that something has changed and it's working.

The problem is that everyone ASSUMES it's him handing over the coaching to someone else. But no one here knows. Unless we have an undercover that is actually part of the football department leaking stuff to us.

I'm happy to take it on face value that he is still the head coach. Because that is the official role. Certainly he might be taking more on board from his assistants. But that's what a good head coach will do.

He has a history of good home and away performances, especially after bad years so the current season is true to form for Hinkley.

But as others have said also he needs to prove himself for the entire season including finals. The problem is, as mentioned, that even if we do win the flag this year, these people will still give him no credit and want his head on a stick. Because it's not him coaching. But if we do s**t the bed again they will want his head on a stick. Because it's his fault. That is the contradiction that makes people look like fools. According to them Carr is coaching. So if we s**t the bed they should also call for Carr's head. But they won't, they will be partying in the street that he was signed because Hinkley is gone and he was the reason.

If we fail, then Hinkley goes. If he succeeds then he must stay. I think the whole 10 years thing is irrelevant. Hardwick did it after 8. People were calling for his head too. If someone can do it at 8 there is no reason it can't be after 10.

There is also zero need for the this like stinkley, donuts, the crappy Photoshop's and the like. It is immature and an embarrassment to the club. If you can't make your argument without all the insults, then maybe your arguments isn't that great.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Why in his 11th year is it acceptable for him to change and earn a contract extension? Ten years, no flag or grand final appearance. You know what? It's not. He should not be extended under any circumstances. You don't get an infinitum to succeed. Move the * on Ken Hinkley. You've had a fair crack and fallen short.

 

[Us against the rest]

There is nothing wrong with wanting change.

I'm not a Hinkley supporter, I was very vocal wanting him gone last year and at the start of this year.

I'm not convinced he should stay still after the first half this year but it's obvious that something has changed and it's working.

The problem is that everyone ASSUMES it's him handing over the coaching to someone else. But no one here knows. Unless we have an undercover that is actually part of the football department leaking stuff to us.

I'm happy to take it on face value that he is still the head coach. Because that is the official role. Certainly he might be taking more on board from his assistants. But that's what a good head coach will do.

He has a history of good home and away performances, especially after bad years so the current season is true to form for Hinkley.

But as others have said also he needs to prove himself for the entire season including finals. The problem is, as mentioned, that even if we do win the flag this year, these people will still give him no credit and want his head on a stick. Because it's not him coaching. But if we do s**t the bed again they will want his head on a stick. Because it's his fault. That is the contradiction that makes people look like fools. According to them Carr is coaching. So if we s**t the bed they should also call for Carr's head. But they won't, they will be partying in the street that he was signed because Hinkley is gone and he was the reason.

If we fail, then Hinkley goes. If he succeeds then he must stay. I think the whole 10 years thing is irrelevant. Hardwick did it after 8. People were calling for his head too. If someone can do it at 8 there is no reason it can't be after 10.

There is also zero need for the this like stinkley, donuts, the crappy Photoshop's and the like. It is immature and an embarrassment to the club. If you can't make your argument without all the insults, then maybe your arguments isn't that great.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

That's why most here want change, when does Hinkley take any responsibility for our lack of success, like 2021 preliminary final, no that was the players and the white noise supporters fault. Ken the master coach when we win, players fault when we lose, you can't have your cake and eat it.
Things could be very different if Sydney played to the siren.

 

[TazD]

There is also zero need for the this like stinkley, donuts, the crappy Photoshop's and the like. It is immature and an embarrassment to the club. If you can't make your argument without all the insults, then maybe your arguments isn't that great.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Us against the rest]

Hinkley has been given all the tools to succeed, even the guarantee of a 10 year coach, he has not delivered the results it's that simple. In any business that wants to prosper and survive results are crucial, especially when your organisation is funded by members and sponsors of a voluntary nature.
I was always taught not to bite the hand that feeds you.
It's time to go Mr Hinkley.
If he really cares about the club, leave now and give a fresh voice a chance while we still are capable on field, Ken has turned over 3 lists, enough is enough.

 

[bomberclifford]

If you examine the reasoning here, you'll see that you're agreeing with me. The pre-game speech is irrelevant - unless it was somehow radically different.

Pre game speech is irrelevant?

So when you said that the coaches job involves motivation, you meant something other than motivating the team before a game?

A coach's job is broadly planning, motivating, maintaining standards, building relationships. Giving the team the best chance of winning.

^
This would involve a pre game speech to the playing group, yes?

Without adequate motivation, planning, standards and positive relationships there's simply no way a team can get to a home preliminary final.

^
So motivating the team is crucial to get to a PF, but not, as it seems, to actually play the PF.
As they say in the classics, cool story bro.

No plan was executed by the players, none of the leadership or energy shown in previous games was displayed. The players got sucked in by the pressure of the moment went away from how they normally play.

^
And this lack of preparedness of the playing group had nothing whatsoever to do with the Head Coach's pre game address to the playing group? Just a coincidence that it happened to most of the team at the same time, directly after their coach 'motivated' them before running out onto the ground.

Was over before the coach could say a word to the players.

^
If the coach talking to the playing group before a game is irrelevant, why would it become relevant after the game has started?


This also raises the issue of Ken now working on the boundary after stubbornly refusing to for years saying he doesn't see the point. It was beneath him.

Perhaps he should have been working on the boundary during the '21 prelim? He could have had the opportunity to 'motivate' the players before the game was lost.

He clearly didn't see winning that game was as important as proving his detractors wrong during a H&A season in a contract renewal year.

 

[Lagooner]

There is nothing wrong with wanting change.

I'm not a Hinkley supporter, I was very vocal wanting him gone last year and at the start of this year.

I'm not convinced he should stay still after the first half this year but it's obvious that something has changed and it's working.

The problem is that everyone ASSUMES it's him handing over the coaching to someone else. But no one here knows. Unless we have an undercover that is actually part of the football department leaking stuff to us.

I'm happy to take it on face value that he is still the head coach. Because that is the official role. Certainly he might be taking more on board from his assistants. But that's what a good head coach will do.

He has a history of good home and away performances, especially after bad years so the current season is true to form for Hinkley.

But as others have said also he needs to prove himself for the entire season including finals. The problem is, as mentioned, that even if we do win the flag this year, these people will still give him no credit and want his head on a stick. Because it's not him coaching. But if we do s**t the bed again they will want his head on a stick. Because it's his fault. That is the contradiction that makes people look like fools. According to them Carr is coaching. So if we s**t the bed they should also call for Carr's head. But they won't, they will be partying in the street that he was signed because Hinkley is gone and he was the reason.

If we fail, then Hinkley goes. If he succeeds then he must stay. I think the whole 10 years thing is irrelevant. Hardwick did it after 8. People were calling for his head too. If someone can do it at 8 there is no reason it can't be after 10.

There is also zero need for the this like stinkley, donuts, the crappy Photoshop's and the like. It is immature and an embarrassment to the club. If you can't make your argument without all the insults, then maybe your arguments isn't that great.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

So people should call for Carr’s head after 1 year of not even being officially in charge, but wrt Ken time is an irrelevant human construct?

Pretty glaring contradiction here wouldn’t you say?

 

[Lagooner]

Pre game speech is irrelevant?

So when you said that the coaches job involves motivation, you meant something other than motivating the team before a game?


^
This would involve a pre game speech to the playing group, yes?



^
So motivating the team is crucial to get to a PF, but not, as it seems, to actually play the PF.
As they say in the classics, cool story bro.



^
And this lack of preparedness of the playing group had nothing whatsoever to do with the Head Coach's pre game address to the playing group? Just a coincidence that it happened to most of the team at the same time, directly after their coach 'motivated' them before running out onto the ground.



^
If the coach talking to the playing group before a game is irrelevant, why would it become relevant after the game has started?


This also raises the issue of Ken now working on the boundary after stubbornly refusing to for years saying he doesn't see the point. It was beneath him.

Perhaps he should have been working on the boundary during the '21 prelim? He could have had the opportunity to 'motivate' the players before the game was lost.

He clearly didn't see winning that game was as important as proving his detractors wrong during a H&A season in a contract renewal year.

I love how fuzzy the scope for a head coach becomes when the “can’t kick it for them!” excuse gets rolled out.

“Planning” - What exactly? Is this strategy? Does it include back up plans for when things go against you? You know, tactical decisions that can be made in the moment.

“Maintaining standards” - Is this skill development? Might help a player kick it for you. Does this include selection standards?

Intentionally vague bullshit.

 

[bomberclifford]

I love how fuzzy the scope for a head coach becomes when the “can’t kick it for them!” excuse gets rolled out.

“Planning” - What exactly? Is this strategy? Does it include back up plans for when things go against you? You know, tactical decisions that can be made in the moment.

“Maintaining standards” - Is this skill development? Might help a player kick it for you. Does this include selection standards?

Intentionally vague bullshit.

Exactly. It also fails the "Okay, so if this is all he does, it doesn't matter if we sack him" test.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

It also means he hasn't been kicking it for them the last 8 games, meaning Ken is still 1-2 this year. Or maybe he just wasn't kicking it for them in the losses, which means he is 9-0.

Its the silliest nonsense ever.

 

[MrPlow]

Don’t feed the troll

 

[tribey]

Trying to poke holes in your own coach's good record strikes me as a low point for any supporter.

Countering your lazy superficialities with a dollop of factual context ≠ ‘trying to poke holes’, guy.

He is what his record says he is.

 

[tribey]

maybe your arguments isn't that great.

Aren’t you the guy who claimed that “plenty of teams haven’t made finals in the past 11 years”?

Maybe sit this one out.

 

[tribey]

Judging the coach on the outcomes of individual matches is not fair - especially when it's one as out-of-the-box as the 2021 prelim. Coaches look at trends.

If it’s about trends and not individual results, what was the result of Port’s very next home game?

Played with the benefit of six and a months of reflection, and against a vastly inferior opponent who you claim to be intimately familiar with.

Granted, Hinkley’s players no longer had the incentive of qualifying for a Grand Final to drive them, but they did have the incentive of honouring the memory of the club’s recently-departed GOAT.

How did that go?