Discussion Saints part ways with recruiting manager after restructure

[gringo2011]

We had no-one to develop. We got the most out of guys who were not AFL standard.

Who knows, guys like Billings and Dunny went backwards. We selected badly but then wasted the ones we did get. Acres is another. McCartin and H Goddard were just burnt picks but there were plenty that ended ups GOPs who probably had another 20% in reserve. Boredom, lack of direction, no vision, no skills training all contribute too.

Richo got quite a bit out of some ordinary lists but had no plan to improve it. He hung-on to his job like a barnacle.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Who knows, guys like Billings and Dunny went backwards. We selected badly but then wasted the ones we did get. Acres is another. McCartin and H Goddard were just burnt picks but there were plenty that ended ups GOPs who probably had another 20% in reserve. Boredom, lack of direction, no vision, no skills training all contribute too.

Richo got quite a bit out of some ordinary lists but had no plan to improve it. He hung-on to his job like a barnacle.

The likes of Eli, Minchington, Curren, Milera.

I really couldn't see them doing much more than they did.

 

[Ads734]

We had no-one to develop. We got the most out of guys who were not AFL standard.

I've probably gone on about this a billion times, but it was the

• Playing Acres in the midfield in the twos, then playing him in the ruck/forward pocket at afl level,
• Debuting Ben Paton and playing him at Half Forward.
• Nearly not playing Wilkie at Half back and instead trying him as a second ruck and luckily rescued by Roberton going down.

Trust me when I say this the problems at Sandy have no doubt affected our development.
In addition, this is the list of coaches

since Scott Watters, bear in mind I may have missed a couple
Simon Mcpfee
Paul Hudson
Arron Hamill
Lynsdey Gilbee
Ben Mglynn
Jake Batchelor

 

[Ads734]

Who knows, guys like Billings and Dunny went backwards. We selected badly but then wasted the ones we did get. Acres is another. McCartin and H Goddard were just burnt picks but there were plenty that ended ups GOPs who probably had another 20% in reserve. Boredom, lack of direction, no vision, no skills training all contribute too.

Richo got quite a bit out of some ordinary lists but had no plan to improve it. He hung-on to his job like a barnacle.

Unfortunately, we will never kniw with Paddy and Hugh,

 

[George]

I've probably gone on about this a billion times, but it was the

• Playing Acres in the midfield in the twos, then playing him in the ruck/forward pocket at afl level,
• Debuting Ben Paton and playing him at Half Forward.
• Nearly not playing Wilkie at Half back and instead trying him as a second ruck and luckily rescued by Roberton going down.

Trust me when I say this the problems at Sandy have no doubt affected our development.
In addition, this is the list of coaches

since Scott Watters, bear in mind I may have missed a couple
Simon Mcpfee
Paul Hudson
Arron Hamill
Lynsdey Gilbee
Ben Mglynn
Jake Batchelor

Dard Ball Get

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Dard Ball Get

A fellow Acres connoisseur
I have banished that era from my mind, but I tip my hat to you Adsy

 

[George]

A fellow Acres connoisseur
I have banished that era from my mind, but I tip my hat to you Adsy

View attachment 1881671

Not a fan of Mcpfee, Arron or Lynsdey?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm just glad we have Roflpl Lynrol running stuff now.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Not a fan of Mcpfee, Arron or Lynsdey?

Look I’m trying to turn over a new leaf, please assist me in my quest

 

[George]

Look I’m trying to turn over a new leaf, please assist me in my quest

New year, new you. I get it. You could've rucking said so!

 

[Ads734]

Not a fan of Mcpfee, Arron or Lynsdey?

Check how long they lasted and their success. I know people at Sandy who lets just say wern;t too impressed with any of them although I think McPhee was actually quite well like and had decent enough non listed players.

Been a really big issue for sandy,

Answerth, Cook, Cocky and Seccul etc etc, there is a real lack of talent these days

 

[George]

Check how long they lasted and their success. I know people at Sandy who lets just say wern;t too impressed with any of them although I think McPhee was actually quite well like and had decent enough non listed players.

Been a really big issue for sandy,

Answerth, Cook, Cocky and Seccul etc etc, there is a real lack of talent these days

Personally I thought they were all shithouse, hard to gauge if they've only been there a minute but these guys were around for years and seemed to not have improved anyone at all.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Check how long they lasted and their success. I know people at Sandy who lets just say wern;t too impressed with any of them although I think McPhee was actually quite well like and had decent enough non listed players.

Been a really big issue for sandy,

Answerth, Cook, Cocky and Seccul etc etc, there is a real lack of talent these days

A problem that seems to have been addressed this year.

 

[Mowman]

Look I’m trying to turn over a new leaf, please assist me in my quest

But you do you so well

 

[sammm]

A problem that seems to have been addressed this year.

also there is a continuity of coach at Sandy, and new players from the Dragons. But still, there is a lack of experienced VFL players.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

there were much better people for the job, it was a rubbish appointment

Thats one of the reasons our development was rubbish for 10 years

Its ok to admit the club gets things wrong

so what candidate did we turn down for the role to be given to Peta ?
who were the more experianced aplicaants for the role that we dismissed for Peta ?

also i ask what tasks day to day did Peta perform that hindered our development in that era ?
if you look at it objectively our poor development from that era was a combination of poor draft selections and unfortunate injurys. in fact lets look at the players we developed in that period and lets see what ones we failed by having Peta in the role over anyone else ...

if you are going to hang her as useless for the guys who didnt make it you then have to also credit her for the guys who did ..

2013 :
Billings -Developed into an AFL player just never reached the heights we hoped
Dunstan - Developed into an AFL player just never reached the heights we hoped
Acres- Developed into an AFL player just never reached the heights we hoped
Templton - Started well injured and never came good

2014:
McCartin - career ended not due to lack of development but constant head injury
Goddard - long term injury followed by consistant soft tissue injury derailed before he could be developed
Mckenzie - took longer but developed into a good player
Lonie- Rookie list player who made the grade to AFL listed player
Sinclair - Rookie list player who is now our best player and latest AA
Payne - Rookie list that never made it

2015:
Gresham - developed into an AFL quality player
White - from a pick 40 project didnt work out
Rice - F/S selection didnt work out
O'Kearney - Rookie didnt work out
Coughlan - Rookie didnt work out

2016:
Long - became an AFL standard player
Battle - currently an above average AFL standard player
Phillips - didnt work out
Marshall - Rookie or second most important player in the best in the AFL

2017:
Clarke - AFL standard player
Coffield - AFL standard player
Claverino - didnt work out
Paton - Fringe AFL level player
Langlands - didnt work out
Peirce - didnt work out

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Who knows, guys like Billings and Dunny went backwards. We selected badly but then wasted the ones we did get. Acres is another. McCartin and H Goddard were just burnt picks but there were plenty that ended ups GOPs who probably had another 20% in reserve. Boredom, lack of direction, no vision, no skills training all contribute too.

Richo got quite a bit out of some ordinary lists but had no plan to improve it. He hung-on to his job like a barnacle.

funny enough Billings and Dunstan started to go backwards only later into the Richo era when they were considered "main list" players so development wasnt the problem development gets them to the AFL level its the senior coaching that didnt push them back to the twos when they wernt progressing its the senior coaching team who were not driving the standards at training to get them to take the next step up .. Our issue is we get players up to the minimum AFL standard but then they become content with that and dont progress to the STAR player we desperatly crave ...
in part that is on the player themselves for not pushing to be better
in part its on the coaching for not driving that motivation to get better
and in part its about drafting the guys who are "safe picks" to become player but have a ceiling that falls short of what we need

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Check how long they lasted and their success. I know people at Sandy who lets just say wern;t too impressed with any of them although I think McPhee was actually quite well like and had decent enough non listed players.

Been a really big issue for sandy,

Answerth, Cook, Cocky and Seccul etc etc, there is a real lack of talent these days

Simon McPhee came over to us on request from Watters .. his task was to bring some structure and guidance to our younger players and get them up to speed, he is the type of guy that the younger players warm to easily and becomes popular and respected quick so his apoinment to Sandy coach was a great move (note he coached his WAFL club to back to back grand finals). the issue is the Watters debarkle with the club went sour really quick and the role he was given to lead the VFL team was changed and he became a midfield coach of the seniors - having never played AFL level it was a bit of a reach to get him to suddenly tell experianced AFL players how to play midfield.. he was out of his depth by his own admission and when things strated to go bad for richo everyone was looking at what we had around richo to support him He knew he was going to be arsed out and kinda expected it as he was not doing the job he was brought over to do ...
I maintain had we not done the merry-go-round of Sandy coaches and kept Mcphee to his initial task then Sandy would be in a better situation and in turn our link with Sandy would be better

 

[Billy Shaw]

Who knows, guys like Billings and Dunny went backwards. We selected badly but then wasted the ones we did get. Acres is another. McCartin and H Goddard were just burnt picks but there were plenty that ended ups GOPs who probably had another 20% in reserve. Boredom, lack of direction, no vision, no skills training all contribute too.

Richo got quite a bit out of some ordinary lists but had no plan to improve it. He hung-on to his job like a barnacle.

Richo was the beneficiary of a club that was sick and tired of copping ridicule across the industry for sacking coaches.

It seemed that Finnis and Co. were more concerned about this than on-field performance.

Richo should've been gone after 2017 after we missed the finals from a strong position.

It was clear at that time, and before, that he simply wasn't up to the job. The club was simply to reluctant to pull the trigger. Set us back 5 years, IMHO.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Richo was the beneficiary of a club that was sick and tired of copping ridicule across the industry for sacking coaches.

It seemed that Finnis and Co. were more concerned about this than on-field performance.

Richo should've been gone after 2017 after we missed the finals from a strong position.

It was clear at that time, and before, that he simply wasn't up to the job. The club was simply to reluctant to pull the trigger. Set us back 5 years, IMHO.

in part it was also a show of faith to him ... he came in at possibly the lowest ebb since the late 90's we let him take the heat of the rebuild we needed to have so years of bottoming out and very few wins ... when we looked like it was time to turn the corner it was obvious he was not up to it but we needed to also see if it was him or the "budget buy" team we had around him so we got him some good cred help and he still wasnt up to it so we gave him the arse

 

[Billy Shaw]

so what candidate did we turn down for the role to be given to Peta?
who were the more experienced applicants for the role that we dismissed for Peta?

also, I ask what tasks day to day did Peta perform that hindered our development in that era.
if you look at it objectively our poor development from that era was a combination of poor draft selections and unfortunate injuries. let's look at the players we developed in that period, and let's see what ones we failed by having Peta in the role over anyone else ...

if you are going to hang her as useless for the guys who didn't make it you then have to also credit her for the guys who did.

2013 :
Billings -Developed into an AFL player just never reached the heights we hoped
Dunstan - Developed into an AFL player just never reached the heights we hoped
Acres- Developed into an AFL player just never reached the heights we hoped
Templton - Started well injured and never came good

2014:
McCartin - career ended not due to lack of development but constant head injury
Goddard - long-term injury followed by consistent soft tissue injury derailed before he could be developed
Mckenzie - took longer but developed into a good player
Lonie- Rookie list player who made the grade to AFL listed player
Sinclair - Rookie list player who is now our best player and the latest AA
Payne - Rookie list that never made it

2015:
Gresham - developed into an AFL quality player
White - from a pick 40 project didn't work out
Rice - F/S selection didn't work out
O'Kearney - Rookie didn't work out
Coughlan - Rookie didn't work out

2016:
Long - became an AFL standard player
Battle - currently an above-average AFL standard player
Phillips - didn't work out
Marshall - Rookie or second most important player in the best in the AFL

2017:
Clarke - AFL standard player
Coffield - AFL standard player
Claverino - didn't work out
Paton - Fringe AFL-level player
Langlands - did it work out
Peirce - didn't work out

That list is a Saints' supporters' worst nightmare, st_trav_ofWA.

As for Peta Searle, her publicly stated ambition was to become an assistant coach at the senior level in the AFL. When it was apparent that wasn't going to happen she was shunted to the AFLW, where she stunk up the joint. She was again moved on.

Interestingly enough, no other AFL club offered her that ambitiously aspired to position of a senior assistant in the AFL male league. I believe she is now consulting in the leadership space, although someone on here may know better.

She was a poor appointment on a number of levels, chosen as much for her gender than expertise. In her defense, she was no worse than many other appointments at that time, up to and including the senior coach.

What a terrible era that was for the club. First, we misplaced one of the best coaches in the competition and replaced him with Scott Twatters.

Then we compounded the problem by appointing AR, without even conducting an interview! A bizarre decision as Twatters had beaten him for the job last time around.

Then we surrounded AR with a conga line of assistants who performed poorly. Throw in the anchor that was the incompetent half-wit, Elshaug, and was it any wonder we struggled.

At least now, Bassat and Lethlean seem to have swept the joint clean and made some shrewd appointments. Only time will tell if they are the right ones.

 

[Billy Shaw]

in part it was also a show of faith to him ... he came in at possibly the lowest ebb since the late 90's we let him take the heat of the rebuild we needed to have so years of bottoming out and very few wins ... when we looked like it was time to turn the corner it was obvious he was not up to it but we needed to also see if it was him or the "budget buy" team we had around him so we got him some good cred help and he still wasnt up to it so we gave him the arse

Too late, though.

 

[Joffaboy]

Who knows, guys like Billings and Dunny went backwards. We selected badly but then wasted the ones we did get. Acres is another. McCartin and H Goddard were just burnt picks but there were plenty that ended ups GOPs who probably had another 20% in reserve. Boredom, lack of direction, no vision, no skills training all contribute too.

Richo got quite a bit out of some ordinary lists but had no plan to improve it. He hung-on to his job like a barnacle.

Billings and Dunstan were just not that good.
Ended up burning pick 3 in hindsight. Pick 19 on Dunstan was hit or miss, he turned out to be a miss.
Acres and DMAC both proved to be AFL players but we never saw the best of either.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

That list is a Saints' supporters' worst nightmare, st_trav_ofWA.

As for Peta Searle, her publicly stated ambition was to become an assistant coach at the senior level in the AFL. When it was apparent that wasn't going to happen she was shunted to the AFLW, where she stunk up the joint. She was again moved on.

Interestingly enough, no other AFL club offered her that ambitiously aspired to position of a senior assistant in the AFL male league. I believe she is now consulting in the leadership space, although someone on here may know better.

She was a poor appointment on a number of levels, chosen as much for her gender than expertise. In her defense, she was no worse than many other appointments at that time, up to and including the senior coach.

What a terrible era that was for the club. First, we misplaced one of the best coaches in the competition and replaced him with Scott Twatters.

Then we compounded the problem by appointing AR, without even conducting an interview! A bizarre decision as Twatters had beaten him for the job last time around.

Then we surrounded AR with a conga line of assistants who performed poorly. Throw in the anchor that was the incompetent half-wit, Elshaug, and was it any wonder we struggled.

At least now, Bassat and Lethlean seem to have swept the joint clean and made some shrewd appointments. Only time will tell if they are the right ones.

again though as a club we were totally on the nose to others we had burnt bridges with Lyon and the industry saw us as a basket case for letting that happen ... we then had Harves take over as an intrim and burnt him by bringing in Watters for the main gig so rightly so he left disgruntled to Collingwood again the industry look at St Kild wondering what the hell was going on .. we then sacked Pelchen we then sacked Nettlefold we changed President the place was a shambles we were not getting a higly credited assistant coach (heck we couldnt attract a highly credited head coach) so when it came to looking for a development coach we had a fairly shallow pool to look at ... i maintain that while yes it was a feel good appointment to be the first club to employ a full time female coaching staff member and yes there was certainly some virtue signalling with that appointment i dont believe we turned down any better candidates for the role at the time ...

and yeah she had ambititions (who can blame a person for that ) but i dont think she did a worse job then anyone else we would have overlooked for her .. We were in a phase of scrimp and save at all costs so we patched up roles by having people do duel roles and we pushed people into roles they were not up to cause again we were rebuilding so winning games wasnt the main priority (especially under Richo).. but it was the dark days we needed to have to get through the other side ... we were in the scrimp and save mode in the GT era as well and it prob cost us a flag at that time .. this time we were already bottom so it was possibley the best time to do it to right the ship

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Billings and Dunstan were just not that good.
Ended up burning pick 3 in hindsight. Pick 19 on Dunstan was hit or miss, he turned out to be a miss.
Acres and DMAC both proved to be AFL players but we never saw the best of either.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I thought Billings was winning Melbourne a flag? HS said so.