Sam Newman- people have had enough of this shameless racist.

[_Mike_]

Hey folks, just a friendly reminder that this thread is about Sam Newman. All discussion on the upcoming referendum - please continue ON THE SRP BOARD

 

[Kappa]

so we can be campaigners as long as there are worse campaigners. Got it.

No, that's not even close to the point I was making...

Like... How do you always completely miss the point I'm making?

Do you really read the things I'm saying ? I can't tell at this point. How could you think I was saying "we can be campaigners as long as other people are worse"? It's really not possible to logically come to that conclusion.

 

[The Lobbster]

...Are you drunk?

Which part of the maths is wrong ?

Your maths are correct but it is a bit of a quirky framing of them that may have led people to be confused. This is the trouble with data science and how to interpret statistics.

There is a concerning trend though that isn’t picked up in your data is due to the framing of deaths as a percentage of PRISON population. Using 2022 data.

Amount of the population being incarcerated.
Indigenous: 1.32% (12989 in 983709)
Non-Indigenous: 0.11% (27602 in 24701703)

Amount of the population dying in custody:
Indigenous: 0.0024% (24 in 983709)
Non-Indigenous: 0.00033% (81 in 24701703)

What these statistics are saying is that when an Indigenous baby and a Non-Indigenous baby is born, the Indigenous baby is significantly more likely to be incarcerated and to die in custody than the Non-Indigenous baby. IMO, that is a problem

 

[Kappa]

you want to dispute black deaths in custody by ignoring that they are 2% of the population and using raw data. I gave you the benefit of the bout when I said "moron". i shouldn't have.

I'm not disputing anything, I'm giving you official statistics. That's literally ALL I'm doing, posting statistics given by official bodies ROFL.

You're seriously calling me a moron and about to call me a racist for quoting statistics given by official sources... You truly are a special one. People like YOU are the EXACT reason we can't make progress, you're given FACTS and instead of talking about them you go sook and abuse people. Shame.

 

[Kappa]

Your maths are correct but it is a bit of a quirky framing of them that may have led people to be confused. This is the trouble with data science and how to interpret statistics.

There is a concerning trend though that isn’t picked up in your data due to the framing of deaths as a percentage of PRISON population. Using 2022 data.

Amount of the population being incarcerated.
Indigenous: 1.32% (12989 in 983709)
Non-Indigenous: 0.11% (27602 in 24701703)

Amount of the population dying in custody:
Indigenous: 0.0024% (24 in 983709)
Non-Indigenous: 0.00033% (81 in 24701703)

What these statistics are saying is that when an Indigenous baby and a Non-Indigenous baby is born, the Indigenous baby is significantly more likely to be incarcerated and to die in custody than the Non-Indigenous baby. IMO, that is a problem

Finally someone who understands the pretty obvious point. Deaths in custody and actually being in custody are two different different issues.

Indigenous people are far more likely to be in custody, that is a big issue.

Once in custody however, they don't die more than white people do... they actually die less. So yes, the deaths in custody is an outdated myth that was probably once true but is no longer if you go by the most recent statistics.

 

[Wolff]

Australia still has a significant amount of people who are horribly racist to Aboriginal people.

Australia still has a significant amount of Aboriginal people who are horribly racist to white people.

 

[Maddo11]

Australia still has a significant amount of Aboriginal people who are horribly racist to white people.

 

[3KZ is Football]

You got through all of that, and didn't get to Jason Horne-Francis. Kudos.

I love watching him play. Wish he was a Lion. He’s old school hard at it and has the capacity to break games open. He does need to improve his ‘tank’, but he is only going to get better.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

No, that's not even close to the point I was making...

Like... How do you always completely miss the point I'm making?

Do you really read the things I'm saying ? I can't tell at this point. How could you think I was saying "we can be campaigners as long as other people are worse"? It's really not possible to logically come to that conclusion.

when the point was made that

Australia still has a significant amount of Aboriginal people who are horribly racist to white people.

Australia still has a significant amount of Aboriginal people who are horribly racist to white people.

you poor thing

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

That old argument that others are racist, so it's not that bad doesn't sit well with me. Either way, the referendum will make news and we'll be judged internationally by it's result.

It is bad, but people who are anti-Australia criticise it for all it needs to get better at, also fail to look outside our borders at the horrific injustices going on in most other places.

But it's easier to criticise here in Australia because you don't get literally killed over your opinion/differences.

 

[beside the seaside]

If he wants to be ignorant about welcome to country that's his problem, but to suggest people boo it is downright cruel. Is that really the type of society we want to live in? If you don't like it fine but just ignore it.

Imagine if people started booing welcome to country ceremonies all over Australia, that would be seriously ****ed up.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Enough of this thread. Gets me to wound up. Time to concentrate on the footy and the Pies tonight. Never accept racism. Call it out every time. Go Pies.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Welcome to country is over used and not needed. I agree 100% with Sam.

No one should get any special treatment for thing that happened that we had no control over.

On VOG-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Whilst it is now thrown in everyone's face, it doesn't really affect our lives and if indigenous people are happy about it, then just let it go on.

 

[loki04]

I have never forgotten one second of how I was taken. Not one. I can still smell the sweat of the coward who pinned me to the ground whilst my mother was beaten and r*ped repeatedly by several men. I still have nightmares about it. You can hide from it during the day but you can’t hide from it at night. I still remember every beating in captivity, being locked in hot tin boxes for hours on end for not complying. Having my arm shattered, seeing other kids abused so badly that they died, kids beaten to death to their skulls were crushed, having to be told your name no longer exists, your family are evil, having your past wiped. Listening to the girls scream at night whilst they were r*ped. Every time I take off my shirt the mirror reminds me of the scars from the whippings and fern hook beatings. Finding out your mother suicided because she couldn’t live without her kids, your brothers and sisters dead or broken. That was the Stolen generation. Tens of thousands I have spoken to over the years will share these stories. You don’t forget it for one second. You carry it to your grave. There are stories I could tell you that you would not be able to hear. That is the Stolen Ones.
Don’t try and lecture me on the Stolen Generation.

Firstly yes that is vile and atrocious to of happened to you and your family. There were and are some truly disgusting and evil people on this earth.
Im sorry to hear you and your family went through something that horrendous.
Reperations should be there to support those like you who suffers/sufferd through it. I hope you were at some point able to have some justice on said perpertrators.

But I will reiterate I never said none of the people were in that basket but that not all are.
Many, I would imagine the worst of it, was undocumented.

Given the sensitivity of topic it is very hard to have an open and honest discussion with this topic.
As what ever I say whether it be facts presented, or you feel my opinions on it, will come off wrongly because many feel you cant have a empathy for an individual whilst debating the numbers and present all documented facts to the table.

I can both support and emphasise and also debate elements that dont always stack up, which I find many on BF lack the ability to do.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Whilst it is now thrown in everyone's face, it doesn't really affect our lives and if indigenous people are happy about it, then just let it go on.

"thrown in your face" ? come on. you make it sound like its something disgusting.

 

[NarniMagic]

The comments on nearly every Facebook article defending him are disturbing. Australia is utterly screwed when it comes to even remotely respecting the indigenous people of this land. **** Sam Newman the utter campaigner.

 

[kaiserchief13]

"thrown in your face" ? come on. you make it sound like its something disgusting.

It's everywhere now in Australia. Work meetings virtually, in person, sporting events, TV shows

 

[loki04]

40 billion? where's that figure from?

It was iirc in a Jacinta price speech.

There is 34 billion per annum spent in previous decade which you can google quite easily.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Firstly yes that is vile and atrocious to of happened to you and your family. There were and are some truly disgusting and evil people on this earth.
Im sorry to hear you and your family went through something that horrendous.
Reperations should be there to support those like you who suffers/sufferd through it. I hope you were at some point able to have some justice on said perpertrators.

But I will reiterate I never said none of the people were in that basket but that not all are.
Many, I would imagine the worst of it, was undocumented.

Given the sensitivity of topic it is very hard to have an open and honest discussion with this topic.
As what ever I say whether it be facts presented, or you feel my opinions on it, will come off wrongly because many feel you cant have a empathy for an individual whilst debating the numbers and present all documented facts to the table.

I can both support and emphasise and also debate elements that dont always stack up, which I find many on BF lack the ability to do.

translation - "I can't say what I really want to say because there's a victim in the room. But how about giving me a medal for being empathetic while I'm questioning the seriousness of indigenous living conditions in this country?

 

[Reg Grundy35]

It's everywhere now in Australia. Work meetings virtually, in person, sporting events, TV shows

so what. does it hurt?

 

[Feraligatr]

I have never forgotten one second of how I was taken. Not one. I can still smell the sweat of the coward who pinned me to the ground whilst my mother was beaten and r*ped repeatedly by several men. I still have nightmares about it. You can hide from it during the day but you can’t hide from it at night. I still remember every beating in captivity, being locked in hot tin boxes for hours on end for not complying. Having my arm shattered, seeing other kids abused so badly that they died, kids beaten to death to their skulls were crushed, having to be told your name no longer exists, your family are evil, having your past wiped. Listening to the girls scream at night whilst they were r*ped. Every time I take off my shirt the mirror reminds me of the scars from the whippings and fern hook beatings. Finding out your mother suicided because she couldn’t live without her kids, your brothers and sisters dead or broken. That was the Stolen generation. Tens of thousands I have spoken to over the years will share these stories. You don’t forget it for one second. You carry it to your grave. There are stories I could tell you that you would not be able to hear. That is the Stolen Ones.
Don’t try and lecture me on the Stolen Generation.

My Dad was stolen generation as well.

I feel horribly sick that this happened to you and I hope that you are looking after yourself and getting the help and support you need to work through the trauma.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

It was iirc in a Jacinta price speech.

I bet you hang on her every word.

 

[loki04]

you want to dispute black deaths in custody by ignoring that they are 2% of the population and using raw data. I gave you the benefit of the bout when I said "moron". i shouldn't have.

Because you are ignoring the mass raw data numbers of whites also dying in custody so you can claim racism.

2% of population which iirc is more 3.8%.

30% of prison population.

23% of deaths which includes large numbers of suicide and deaths in car chases. Google the break down. Death by custodians or neglect is a much smaller % of that number.

 

[The Lobbster]

Finally someone who understands the pretty obvious point. Deaths in custody and actually being in custody are two different different issues.

Indigenous people are far more likely to be in custody, that is a big issue.

Once in custody however, they don't die more than white people do... they actually die less. So yes, the deaths in custody is an outdated myth that was probably once true but is no longer if you go by the most recent statistics.

Following up on the data science. Whilst the 7% difference leading to the 'die less' idea may seem large, given the small population of people who die in custody, one or two people can affect things quite a lot so I wouldn't say less. Furthermore, it only appears the same because the statistics are drawn from the already tainted prison population data (where Indigenous people are massively overrepresented).

It also treats all deaths in custody as the same, even though some can be from medical issues whilst some come as a result of violence from other prisoners or in the worst case, mistreatment from guards. To determine who is more likely to die from misconduct in custody would take years of highly controlled research, which will likely never be possible. Basically, whilst your statistics were correct, I don't really see why it matters.

IMO the only thing that matters is that despite being around 4% of the population, 32% of prisoners are Indigenous and 23% of people who die in prisons are indigenous. That is only 2 statistics I found on google in about 15 minutes, meaning that if I had to guess, there would be others all leading to the same conclusion.

As for Sam Newman, he is clearly in the wrong here, by a country mile. At the worst a welcome to country is something you can just ignore. At their best they can be genuinely informative, something which is desperately needed surrounding Indigenous issues.

 

[loki04]

I bet you hang on her every word.

Why not?

Only a fool would want only one sided facts and feelings.

She'd make a great priminister, very intelligent, well respected indigenous Australian woman.

 

[loki04]

give it a f***#@g rest mate.

Stop talking shot then. You only want to hear things that fit your narrative.