VFL Sandy vs Essendon

[SaintsSeptember]

Steve Johnson was pretty much always a forward. I'm happy if Billings works out like that

 

[stfan]

Steve Johnson was pretty much always a forward. I'm happy if Billings works out like that

Though SJ is also 189cm.

Personally I think Billings needs to develop into a mid or linkman.

 

[hayes]

I'm not sure if Billings will ever be a contested ball beast but there's no reason why he can't do something similar to what Ross is this year. He's already averaging 20 touches a game with plenty of improvement in fitness to come.

Knowing where to run then delivering beautifully like Seb does is fine by me!

 

[Glen Buterol]

Steve Johnson was pretty much always a forward. I'm happy if Billings works out like that

Agree. We seem so desperate to turn him into a midfielder. I don't get it tbh. There's an obsession having particular heights & body types in specific positions when we should simply play the players in their most suited roles if they are best 22. I get the development aspect however there's no reason Billings cannot play 90% fwd with short stints in the midfield as well as developing his midfield craft at training & in the off season. Sometimes I feel we over complicate things meaning players don't have a clear understanding of their role.

 

[plugger66]

Agree. We seem so desperate to turn him into a midfielder. I don't get it tbh. There's an obsession having particular heights & body types in specific positions when we should simply play the players in their most suited roles if they are best 22. I get the development aspect however there's no reason Billings cannot play 90% fwd with short stints in the midfield as well as developing his midfield craft at training & in the off season. Sometimes I feel we over complicate things meaning players don't have a clear understanding of their role.

I think we get confused what a midfielder is. For some it means being in the middle for centre bounces. That will never be billings go imo whoever he surely has the skills and ability to play as an outside mid for example on the wing or the hff. These days they are mids as apart from centre bounces they are basically on the ball. He must learn to really impact the game from these positions. He is capable of that


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[cooperrules]

I think we get confused what a midfielder is. For some it means being in the middle for centre bounces. That will never be billings go imo whoever he surely has the skills and ability to play as an outside mid for example on the wing or the hff. These days they are mids as apart from centre bounces they are basically on the ball. He must learn to really impact the game from these positions. He is capable of that


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too slow for a wingman.

 

[plugger66]

too slow for a wingman.

That position now is just an outside mid. I'm not sure pace really matters. You need to have footy smarts.

 

[Glen Buterol]

That position now is just an outside mid. I'm not sure pace really matters. You need to have footy smarts.

To be an effective outside mid/winger you need to have pace or a tank. Preferably both. Billings has neither. Jack needs to play fwd as a link up target/goal kicker or defense setting up play until he either builds a tank or improves his stoppage game. His pace won't change a great deal at all.

 

[VDS66]

Meh, just give him the same role as Rioli and grab a few more mids.

Stick him om the flank and let him turn games off his boot.

Simples.

 

[saintbill]

Sinclair hasn't matched his first year form in VFL or AFL .
He played 18 AFL games last year.

I don't see it as an issue that we meanwhile get some games into Minchington. Coming up to 23 years old , decision makers will need to know what he can do.
Then there is Curren a year older again.

Reckon that is a tad harsh on Sinclair personally. Has had a few games this year in the seniors where he has had 18+ possession & 2 goals. Last year he was a 12 possession, 2 goal player on a good day. He has had a few quiet games this year, but typically when we have been absolutely smacked. Not an easy gig playing a forward pocket role when your team is getting flogged. His VFL form is very solid.

Also, he probably got gifted a few games last year if we are honest. Therefore, I am not sure that a games played comparison should be the most relevant factor when assessing his progression. The emergence of Membrey and Paddy becoming a more regular fixture in the forward set up means that most likely only 2 of Lonie, Minchi, Gresh, Templeton, arguably Billings (unless they play him elsewhere) are going to get selected every week. All of them are in okay to good form. Last year we were happy to go with a combo of 3 of the above as Membrey and Paddy were not regulars yet.

He also benefited from low expectations last year coming off the rookie list. This year expectations have risen and Richo seems to be in love with Gresh who is keeping him out. I would argue Sinclair has both improved and is a better player than Gresham at the minute.

Very happy with how the kid is tracking myself. I said after the Melbourne game, I hope that Richo took notice because Sincs will have bad days particularly playing that small forward role but he needs some leeway as he is fricking awesome when he is on. Unfortunately, all it took was 1 quiet game and the kid was back to the 2's, ridiculous IMO. Blinder against Melbourne, injured against North, comes back for West Coast game, has a bad game (who didn't), dropped! One of the more baffling decisions from the selection committee this year IMO.

FYI - Not advocating dropping Gresham, just think as of right now Sinclair is ahead in terms of output. Gresh will be a good player and glad he is getting an extended run. Surely Sincs needs to be getting games ahead of Wright though? I understand they are not exactly like for like, but Wright came into the side as a forward last week. Pretty pointless really.

#bringbacksincs

 

[cooperrules]

That position now is just an outside mid. I'm not sure pace really matters. You need to have footy smarts.

um smith and hill??????

 

[plugger66]

um smith and hill??????

Yep but plenty without great pace. They are true wingers. Jack can just play as an outside link man. No pace required for that, just footy smarts. And I did also say HFF in the first post.

 

[tom1197]

I'm not sure if Billings will ever be a contested ball beast but there's no reason why he can't do something similar to what Ross is this year. He's already averaging 20 touches a game with plenty of improvement in fitness to come.

Knowing where to run then delivering beautifully like Seb does is fine by me!

He will always know where to run and find the ball
And his kicking is far superior to Ross
This would be a good result
Ross took 5 years, Billings is only in his 3rd

 

[aussierulesrules]

To be an effective outside mid/winger you need to have pace or a tank. Preferably both. Billings has neither. Jack needs to play fwd as a link up target/goal kicker or defense setting up play until he either builds a tank or improves his stoppage game. His pace won't change a great deal at all.

I think the reason he's dropped off again of late is that he's really tired again. One thing that stood out like DB's in his first year was that he looked absolutely knackered almost all the time (when they had the camera on his face) and it's something I've noticed again a fair bit in recent weeks. His face has been almost white and he just looks spent.

I think he went well earlier in the year on the wing because he was fresh and able to run out the games, but going by how tired he's looked again of late, I think it didn't take him long before he was worn out again and as a result, his output really dropped off again and they moved him back to the forward line.

This is why I'm not particularly concerned by his current form/situation, because I just think it's going to take another preseason or two before we see him doing the things we all believe he'll be able to do down the track. He's just not fit enough yet I don't think.

 

[tom1197]

I think the reason he's dropped off again of late is that he's really tired again. One thing that stood out like DB's in his first year was that he looked absolutely knackered almost all the time (when they had the camera on his face) and it's something I've noticed again a fair bit in recent weeks. His face has been almost white and he just looks spent.

I think he went well earlier in the year on the wing because he was fresh and able to run out the games, but going by how tired he's looked again of late, I think it didn't take him long before he was worn out again and as a result, his output really dropped off again and they moved him back to the forward line.

This is why I'm not particularly concerned by his current form/situation, because I just think it's going to take another preseason or two before we see him doing the things we all believe he'll be able to do down the track. He's just not fit enough yet I don't think.

JB doesnt have a bad tank at all for a young fella
Plus they don't all get stacks of the ball, he has that ability

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Reckon that is a tad harsh on Sinclair personally. Has had a few games this year in the seniors where he has had 18+ possession & 2 goals. Last year he was a 12 possession, 2 goal player on a good day. He has had a few quiet games this year, but typically when we have been absolutely smacked. Not an easy gig playing a forward pocket role when your team is getting flogged. His VFL form is very solid.

Also, he probably got gifted a few games last year if we are honest. Therefore, I am not sure that a games played comparison should be the most relevant factor when assessing his progression. The emergence of Membrey and Paddy becoming a more regular fixture in the forward set up means that most likely only 2 of Lonie, Minchi, Gresh, Templeton, arguably Billings (unless they play him elsewhere) are going to get selected every week. All of them are in okay to good form. Last year we were happy to go with a combo of 3 of the above as Membrey and Paddy were not regulars yet.

He also benefited from low expectations last year coming off the rookie list. This year expectations have risen and Richo seems to be in love with Gresh who is keeping him out. I would argue Sinclair has both improved and is a better player than Gresham at the minute.

Very happy with how the kid is tracking myself. I said after the Melbourne game, I hope that Richo took notice because Sincs will have bad days particularly playing that small forward role but he needs some leeway as he is fricking awesome when he is on. Unfortunately, all it took was 1 quiet game and the kid was back to the 2's, ridiculous IMO. Blinder against Melbourne, injured against North, comes back for West Coast game, has a bad game (who didn't), dropped! One of the more baffling decisions from the selection committee this year IMO.

FYI - Not advocating dropping Gresham, just think as of right now Sinclair is ahead in terms of output. Gresh will be a good player and glad he is getting an extended run. Surely Sincs needs to be getting games ahead of Wright though? I understand they are not exactly like for like, but Wright came into the side as a forward last week. Pretty pointless really.

#bringbacksincs

No last year he was a 19 possession ( 7 contested ) , 2 goal player on a good day. He had 11 disposals on AVERAGE.
He also managed to average a goal a game last year, and has not managed to repeat it this year.

I just don't feel he's built on his last season.
That's not to say i don't think he'll end up a 200 game player for us.

His game against Melbourne was great. Won contested ball, couple of goals, 5 tackles.

If we measure the effectiveness of our small forwards simply by goals kicked per game.
Lonie is winning, followed by Gresham.

By comparison, Eddie Betts was averaging around a goal a game in 2005/2006.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Reckon that is a tad harsh on Sinclair personally. Has had a few games this year in the seniors where he has had 18+ possession & 2 goals. Last year he was a 12 possession, 2 goal player on a good day. He has had a few quiet games this year, but typically when we have been absolutely smacked. Not an easy gig playing a forward pocket role when your team is getting flogged. His VFL form is very solid.

He has only had one game this year from the seven he's played where he had either 18 disposals or kicked 2 goals, and that was when he did both in round six against Melbourne. His last couple of games have been very poor (8 & 9 disposals with 0 goals). Sinclair is definitely having a tougher time thanks to Gresham and Minchington putting more pressure on him for that half forward spot. He also had seven sub-affected games last year, so perhaps the coaching staff liked him as a sub option more than a full timer each week. He never played more than three full games in a row last year, possibly to help manage his workload.

 

[gringo2011]

I think the reason he's dropped off again of late is that he's really tired again. One thing that stood out like DB's in his first year was that he looked absolutely knackered almost all the time (when they had the camera on his face) and it's something I've noticed again a fair bit in recent weeks. His face has been almost white and he just looks spent.

I think he went well earlier in the year on the wing because he was fresh and able to run out the games, but going by how tired he's looked again of late, I think it didn't take him long before he was worn out again and as a result, his output really dropped off again and they moved him back to the forward line.

This is why I'm not particularly concerned by his current form/situation, because I just think it's going to take another preseason or two before we see him doing the things we all believe he'll be able to do down the track. He's just not fit enough yet I don't think.

He's also a really shy quiet kid, I heard him on SEN the other night at a charity thing and he's painfully uncomfortable in the spot light. I think it will take him time to deal with the fame and focus. I think it will come but he won't be an overnight superstar. Will be one though.

 

[King_Steele]

Reckon that is a tad harsh on Sinclair personally. Has had a few games this year in the seniors where he has had 18+ possession & 2 goals. Last year he was a 12 possession, 2 goal player on a good day. He has had a few quiet games this year, but typically when we have been absolutely smacked. Not an easy gig playing a forward pocket role when your team is getting flogged. His VFL form is very solid.

Also, he probably got gifted a few games last year if we are honest. Therefore, I am not sure that a games played comparison should be the most relevant factor when assessing his progression. The emergence of Membrey and Paddy becoming a more regular fixture in the forward set up means that most likely only 2 of Lonie, Minchi, Gresh, Templeton, arguably Billings (unless they play him elsewhere) are going to get selected every week. All of them are in okay to good form. Last year we were happy to go with a combo of 3 of the above as Membrey and Paddy were not regulars yet.

He also benefited from low expectations last year coming off the rookie list. This year expectations have risen and Richo seems to be in love with Gresh who is keeping him out. I would argue Sinclair has both improved and is a better player than Gresham at the minute.

Very happy with how the kid is tracking myself. I said after the Melbourne game, I hope that Richo took notice because Sincs will have bad days particularly playing that small forward role but he needs some leeway as he is fricking awesome when he is on. Unfortunately, all it took was 1 quiet game and the kid was back to the 2's, ridiculous IMO. Blinder against Melbourne, injured against North, comes back for West Coast game, has a bad game (who didn't), dropped! One of the more baffling decisions from the selection committee this year IMO.

FYI - Not advocating dropping Gresham, just think as of right now Sinclair is ahead in terms of output. Gresh will be a good player and glad he is getting an extended run. Surely Sincs needs to be getting games ahead of Wright though? I understand they are not exactly like for like, but Wright came into the side as a forward last week. Pretty pointless really.

#bringbacksincs

#wewantsinc

 

[Ads734]

I've g

The flip-side of that though is that it's good in a way that they get to go back to the VFL where we have more freedom to play them in different roles, that can help fast-track their development in other ways. ie, if there was no-one putting heat on Lonie's spot earlier in the year he may have kept it, whereas now he's had the chance to go back to the VFL and spend a lot of time playing in the midfield, which ought to bring forward the time he's able to spend more time in the midfield at AFL level and it helps give them a more rounded game. Ditto Sinclair and Minchington and Gresh when he went back there.

There's nothing wrong with guys developing in the VFL. In the 80's guys like Tuck and Dipper at Hawthorn spent years in the ressies and Jack Steven and Armo spent plenty of time there, as did Joey I think and last year Membrey spent a good amount of time there and it doesn't seem to have hurt his ability to play well at AFL level this year and in fact may have helped it.

ot no issue with players developing in the twos I've got a problem with players seemingly going backwards in terms of their afl form

 

[stfan]

To be an effective outside mid/winger you need to have pace or a tank. Preferably both. Billings has neither. Jack needs to play fwd as a link up target/goal kicker or defense setting up play until he either builds a tank or improves his stoppage game. His pace won't change a great deal at all.

But someone of Billings stature needs pace even more to be able to play in the forward line as he needs pace to to be able to get back in the forward line after it empties and he does not have it.

Nor does he have Lonies agility to play the crumbing type small forward role.

Nor is he a great mark for his size.

So his skillset is thin at the various alternatives of winning the ball in the forward line.

As present Billings looks destined to play the midfield/ hb receiver distributor role who then sets up play with his one elite skill, his field kicking. For this role he seeks space and is fed the ball. You do not need great pace for this, just smarts and the ability to then give the ball off well quickly with your kicking and Billings ticks these boxes very well.

 

[Persevering Saint]

On another note. What did everybody think of Joe Baker-Thomas' VFL debut? Any chance he'll get awarded an international rookie spot next year?

 

[TheLonieRanger]

But someone of Billings stature needs pace even more to be able to play in the forward line as he needs pace to to be able to get back in the forward line after it empties and he does not have it.

Nor does he have Lonies agility to play the crumbing type small forward role.

Nor is he a great mark for his size.

So his skillset is thin at the various alternatives of winning the ball in the forward line.

As present Billings looks destined to play the midfield/ hb receiver distributor role who then sets up play with his one elite skill, his field kicking. For this role he seeks space and is fed the ball. You do not need great pace for this, just smarts and the ability to then give the ball off well quickly with your kicking and Billings ticks these boxes very well.

poor assessment

 

[stfan]

poor assessment

So you don't think Billings is an elite kick then?

If you wish to disagree that is fine and is what forums are for. But without saying why it is pretty meanigless. From what I have seen Billings will not become a absolute gun for the Saints playing in a small forward role. I believe that we will see his best by playing another role, and indeed he has mainly played other roles in games this year.

Billings may well be on a slow burn as different players develop at different rates, but at present compared to players of his age his delivered play does not scream future gun IMO, but rather good to very good. Being a Top 3 pick has no meaning from the moment a players name is called out.

I like virtually all StKilda fans hope that he does become a gun as we desperately need some. But if you speak with opposition fans there is a huge gulf between how the they rate him, and how many StKilda fans do.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Wow, pretty amazed at the lack of love for JBT.