Autopsy Round 3, 2024: Essendon v St.Kilda

[tomjoad]

I reckon our midfield is stuffed, regardless of who goes in there. Can't put together four quarters as a unit, and seem the get the ball stripped off them too easy at centre bounces and stoppages- don't get enough of the ball to do enough on the scoreboard. I know Steele and Ross try hard, but that kind of setup won't get us deep in the finals. Windy is a bit in and out, and I don't think Dow will improve things hugely. One can only hope.

Windy will get there. He needs to stay in there though and be backed in for a solid block of games. He'll no doubt frustrate until he does get there, but I am almost certain that he makes it, and will be very, very good.

 

[Joffaboy]

Jack Hayes can be important to this teams structure.

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[beside the seaside]

yeah OK - I'll bite.

How do we get better mids, where from and at what cost?

It will be interesting to get a good look at our "proper" midfield later this year. I thought Henry was looking really promising as a run through option. Then you've got Dow. Reports were that Clark was going well in there over pre-season too. Windy showed against Pies he can be a beast in there but needs to find consistency.

Hopefully the parts of a decent midfield are already on the list.

 

[MordySaint]

You draft them. That's where sos and dalrymple come in

If SOS and dalrymple are listening... here's my two cents worth.

Concentrate on drafting midfielders please. No washed up superannuation seekers please, just players who are young and have a career in front of them.

That is all.

 

[MightySaintas]

If SOS and dalrymple are listening... here's my two cents worth.

Concentrate on drafting midfielders please. No washed up superannuation seekers please, just players who are young and have a career in front of them.

That is all.

and can we please have a second ruck option. Owens is NOT the answer there.

 

[BrutThough]

Jack Hayes can be important to this teams structure.

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At worst, he provides another option and puts pressure on the other forwards to perform.

At best, he performs well enough to be that fwd/ruck many feel we lack.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The main advantage to having Owens in the ruck, is he gets some time in the midfield , where he can be pretty effective.

So yeah, move Owens to the midfield, if he gets a bit puffed out so be it. Hayes was ok in the midfield as well ( he's short to be a serious ruck ), so it makes sense to have Hayes in the previous Owens role.

At least while the team is so depleted.

 

[SG34]

I assumed that Michito was used as a ‘Clayton’s Ruck’ .. Just get him in some bullocking contested work, see where he is at as a potential old skool ruck/rover type, while Marshall is doing other stuff. Also, I notice that a lot of talk here is if recruitment. I would add that retention, especially of back-up talls, and talls altogether.

 

[saintmike65]

Show me the midfield that we have developed.

We have our three best (if fit) midfielder starters as Jones, Crouch and Steele. All from other clubs, not developed in our system.

We have ignored building a midfield or done a pretty poor job at doing it.

6 years of Elshaugh have hurt us big time!

 

[SteeleSaints]

At worst, he provides another option and puts pressure on the other forwards to perform.

At best, he performs well enough to be that fwd/ruck many feel we lack.

Just watching his (Hayes) return game in the VFL you can see how important he will be for our AFL team structure. What a shame the past 2 years have been for him, because I see him making a huge difference to our F50 effectiveness. He is excellent forward and creates space for other players and the fact that he can go into the ruck and remain competitive will give the coaches the opportunity to rotate Marshall forward for short bursts.

Posters were highlighting Marshall's turnovers last week, generally the majority of those errors came from complete exhaustion. We simply cant expect him to continually compete against two big ruckman for entire games. Having a real chop out like Hayes will make a huge difference to Rowans game also.

 

[The Punter]

Just watching his (Hayes) return game in the VFL you can see how important he will be for our AFL team structure. What a shame the past 2 year have been for him, because I see him making a huge difference to our F50 effectiveness. He is excellent forward and creates space for other players and the fact that he can go into the ruck and remain competitive will give the coaches the opportunity to rotate Marshall forward for short bursts.

Posters were highlighting Marshall's turnovers last week, generally the majority of those errors came from complete exhaustion. We simply cant expect him to continually compete against two big ruckman for entire games. Having a real chop out like Hayes will make a huge difference to Rowans game also.

Without making a suggestion we should ignore Hayes, most teams don't play two proper ruckmen in the same team.

But we play Essendon again later this season - we need to address this for that game and any others where a team may go in with two proper ruckmen.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Without making a suggestion we should ignore Hayes, most teams don't play two proper ruckmen in the same team.

But we play Essendon again later this season - we need to address this for that game and any others where a team may go in with two proper ruckmen.

Hayes isn't a proper ruckman, but he wins a few hitouts when he plays there.

 

[Baldur]

Losing to Essenscum is never acceptable.

 

[St Significant]

If SOS and dalrymple are listening... here's my two cents worth.

Concentrate on drafting midfielders please. No washed up superannuation seekers please, just players who are young and have a career in front of them.

That is all.

I agree but how do you do that without a top 5 pick for the cream of the crop? That's where you pick up the elite midfielders which is what we desperately need. History shows it is difficult to prise these young players out of the club they drafted at unless you are a power club like Collingwood. I say we throw the kitchen sink at Harley Reid.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Without making a suggestion we should ignore Hayes, most teams don't play two proper ruckmen in the same team.

But we play Essendon again later this season - we need to address this for that game and any others where a team may go in with two proper ruckmen.

Agreed, but he is good forward and would give us an edge against teams who dont have 2 ruckman. The more I think about it, when fit Hayes should come straight in and replace Sharman or Caminiti forward. It could free Owens up to play more minutes in the midfield or give the coaches two options as big forwards or 2nd ruck options.

Play King, Hayes, Owens & Membrey as the lead up forwards and all allow more rotations given their games. Hayes can also genuinely play full forward where required, his flexibility is exactly what we need.

 

[crasha301]

I agree but how do you do that without a top 5 pick for the cream of the crop? That's where you pick up the elite midfielders which is what we desperately need. History shows it is difficult to prise these young players out of the club they drafted at unless you are a power club like Collingwood. I say we throw the kitchen sink at Harley Reid.

A mate of mine suggested this.

Offer him a Boyd like deal.

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[St Significant]

A mate of mine suggested this.

Offer him a Boyd like deal.

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Absolutely!!! He must he be hating being over there & playing for the bottom side.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I agree but how do you do that without a top 5 pick for the cream of the crop? That's where you pick up the elite midfielders which is what we desperately need. History shows it is difficult to prise these young players out of the club they drafted at unless you are a power club like Collingwood. I say we throw the kitchen sink at Harley Reid.

You have to draft what's there. Sometimes that's mids.

In 2012, we tried to draft mids ( Wright, Murdoch ) but there were no good mids in that draft.
In 2013 we traded in Bruce and Longer, and drafted Billings and Dunstan missing out on Bont, Cripps, M Crouch, Merrett, Hewett.
The following year Touk Miller went well after McKenzie. It wasn't that we didn't draft mids, it was that we didn't draft the right mids.

Our talent scouts need to read the draft and respond accordingly.
Imagine if we'd drafted Bont, Cripps and Merrett instead of Billings , Wright and White.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Curious to hear people's views on an ideal ruck set up given Marshall's strengths and weaknesses.

We'd lose so much around the ground if he isn't playing first ruck but his tap ruck skills are poor and using Owens as the back makes that even worse.

So do we aim to get a better tap ruck who replaces Marshall who then plays as a fwd/ruck or do we continue to put up with poor tap work and hope that one of Hayes, Caminiti, Heath or Keeler comes on enough to be a significant improvement on using Owens.

Unpopular opinion but l think he needs a rocket or a different ruck coach. He's fallen into accepting the situation

 

[St Significant]

You have to draft what's there. Sometimes that's mids.

In 2012, we tried to draft mids ( Wright, Murdoch ) but there were no good mids in that draft.
In 2013 we traded in Bruce and Longer, and drafted Billings and Dunstan missing out on Bont, Cripps, M Crouch, Merrett, Hewett.
The following year Touk Miller went well after McKenzie. It wasn't that we didn't draft mids, it was that we didn't draft the right mids.

Our talent scouts need to read the draft and respond accordingly.
Imagine if we'd drafted Bont, Cripps and Merrett instead of Billings , Wright and White.

Did you have to go and open up old wounds? I'm trying to wipe those past draft years out of my memory completely.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Our ruckman issues are pretty easy to fix.
Cripple Matty Allison.
Grab that kid from the Falcons in the MSD
Grab the best we can in trade season without losing a 1stRDP.
Delist TC and one of Moose or the new kid.

 

[The Punter]

We had one of only three ruckmen in the AA squad last season, and we have "ruckman issues".

The overreaction continues.

Also, if we had drafted Merrett instead of Billings in 2013, Merrett would be the one at Melbourne. Billings was the consensus pick at that spot at that time - you should only judge decisions based on what information is available at the time the decision was made (this is why McCartin over Petracca is different - it was clearly a needs-based call and a gamble based on that, and that commentary was made at the time of the decision).

 

[seasonedsainter]

Agreed, but he is good forward and would give us an edge against teams who dont have 2 ruckman. The more I think about it, when fit Hayes should come straight in and replace Sharman or Caminiti forward. It could free Owens up to play more minutes in the midfield or give the coaches two options as big forwards or 2nd ruck options.

Play King, Hayes, Owens & Membrey as the lead up forwards and all allow more rotations given their games. Hayes can also genuinely play full forward where required, his flexibility is exactly what we need.

Totally agree, have been thinking very similar.

 

[gubby88]

We had one of only three ruckmen in the AA squad last season, and we have "ruckman issues".

The overreaction continues.

Also, if we had drafted Merrett instead of Billings in 2013, Merrett would be the one at Melbourne. Billings was the consensus pick at that spot at that time - you should only judge decisions based on what information is available at the time the decision was made (this is why McCartin over Petracca is different - it was clearly a needs-based call and a gamble based on that, and that commentary was made at the time of the decision).

Not to mention if we have got cripps, ol mate richo would have played him as a forward pocket/ruckman as well

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We had one of only three ruckmen in the AA squad last season, and we have "ruckman issues".

The overreaction continues.

Also, if we had drafted Merrett instead of Billings in 2013, Merrett would be the one at Melbourne. Billings was the consensus pick at that spot at that time - you should only judge decisions based on what information is available at the time the decision was made (this is why McCartin over Petracca is different - it was clearly a needs-based call and a gamble based on that, and that commentary was made at the time of the decision).

Merrett would have been instead of Dunstan or Acres.
You think that Dunstan's issue was lack of development? I disagree.

If someone didn't think that Longer was the ants pants, it would have been possible for us to draft.
M Crouch , Z Merrett, T Nancurvis . Instead of Dunstan and Acres.

If our recruiters were worth their salt, they wouldn't have rated Longer so highly after seeing his exposed form.