Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

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WalshistheGOAT said:
Am I reading this right? You're marking down Judd's leadership vs Pendles because of the Fev pressure point fiasco on Brownlow night? 😂😂😂😂

Under Pendles watch how many players got suspended or banned for doing stupid s***?

  • Thomas and Keefe for drugs
  • Stephenson betting on his own games
  • Degoey bashing blokes all around the world each year
  • Beams had bikies rocking up at training trying to collect debts off him in front of the playing group
  • Had a players mum call up Neil Mitchell and complain that her son's career was ruined by the Pies rampant drug culture
  • Sam Murray for drugs too
  • The Heritier Lumumba scandal

Are we meant to mark down Pendles for being at the helm during these? Or do we recognize them as separate incidents and really having nothing to do with Pendles leadership. Just dumb players doing dumb crap... Ditto Fev.
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Jeremy Strong Yes GIF by SuccessionHBO
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
Am I reading this right? You're marking down Judd's leadership vs Pendles because of the Fev pressure point fiasco on Brownlow night? 😂😂😂😂

Under Pendles watch how many players got suspended or banned for doing stupid s***?

  • Thomas and Keefe for drugs
  • Stephenson betting on his own games
  • Degoey bashing blokes all around the world each year
  • Beams had bikies rocking up at training trying to collect debts off him in front of the playing group
  • Had a players mum call up Neil Mitchell and complain that her son's career was ruined by the Pies rampant drug culture
  • Sam Murray for drugs too
  • The Heritier Lumumba scandal

Are we meant to mark down Pendles for being at the helm during these? Or do we recognize them as separate incidents and really having nothing to do with Pendles leadership. Just dumb players doing dumb crap... Ditto Fev.
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Fev and Judd is one of a few examples.

Which of the examples you provided saw a player publicly belittle their captain?
 
Fadge said:
All valid points, but again, I can only base my conclusions on what has actually transpired for the respective players throughout their careers, and can't second guess what might have happened if a different butterfly flapped its wings in a different location at a different time.
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But that's what you're asking us to do given you proposed that scenario. In any case, if we're going to count Fev at the Brownlow against Juddy, then I guess we have to count these against Pendles:
  • Thomas and Keefe for drugs
  • Stephenson betting on his own games
  • Degoey bashing blokes all around the world each year
  • Beams had bikies rocking up at training trying to collect debts off him in front of the playing group
  • Had a players mum call up Neil Mitchell and complain that her son's career was ruined by the Pies rampant drug culture
  • Sam Murray for drugs too
  • The Heritier Lumumba scandal

Pendlebury therefore gets a zero for leadership.
 

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Fadge said:
Fev and Judd is one of a few examples.

Which of the examples you provided saw a player publicly belittle their captain?
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For me having Bikies show up to training threatening a playing group is a little bit worse than a drunk nuffie with a microphone taking the piss out of his captain for TV entertainment.

Maybe I'm just getting old and bitter.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
For me having Bikies show up to training threatening a playing group is a little bit worse than a drunk nuffie with a microphone taking the piss out of his captain for TV entertainment.

Maybe I'm just getting old and bitter.
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This happened after Beams returned from Brisbane, right?

Nonetheless, my point stands, and it's about how much respect the leader garners from his players.
 
End of the day none of us have a clue whether Pendles is actually a good captain or not. He speaks well, plays well and occasionally points some fingers and yells some stuff. That's about as much insight as us fans have on the matter.

I think it's safe to assume none of us have first hand experience playing under him, coaching him or working with him. To pretend to know his leadership capabilities + all the other players listed and then accurately judge them against one another is just silly.
 
Fadge said:
This happened after Beams returned from Brisbane, right?

Nonetheless, my point stands, and it's about how much respect the leader garners from his players.
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Yes, amongst all the other scandals around that time. Does that make Pendlebury a bad leader? Betting scandals, drug scandals, Bikies... That doesn't sound like leadership had things in order?
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
End of the day none of us have a clue whether Pendles is actually a good captain or not. He speaks well, plays well and occasionally points some fingers and yells some stuff. That's about as much insight as us fans have on the matter.

I think it's safe to assume none of us have first hand experience playing under him, coaching him or working with him. To pretend to know his leadership capabilities + all the other players listed and then accurately judge them against one another is just silly.
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Disagree.

As I have said, we see enough and know enough, at least about the elite players (which is what we have been discussing) to form opinions and draw conclusions.
 
Fadge said:
Disagree.

As I have said, we see enough and know enough, at least about the elite players (which is what we have been discussing) to form opinions and draw conclusions.
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Fadge said:
Disagree.

As I have said, we see enough and know enough, at least about the elite players (which is what we have been discussing) to form opinions and draw conclusions.
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Rubbish
 
Fadge said:
On Gawn - his 6 x AA's is indeed impressive, but I suspect much of this is a result of the dearth of other gun ruckman on the scene.

He had Grundy to compete with in the late 2010's, and other ruckman have popped up for a season here or there. This year he had De Koning emerging until he got injured, so his main competitors were Marshall and Cameron (hardly all-timers).
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My opinion, I always rated Cox as the best ruckman I have seen. Great player.

Gawn is catching up.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
Yes, amongst all the other scandals around that time. Does that make Pendlebury a bad leader? Betting scandals, drug scandals, Bikies... That doesn't sound like leadership had things in order?
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Aligns with Hodge at Hawthorn, therefore leadership validated.

But to go from a 4.5 up to a 5 Pendles needed to get done for DUI on the eve of a finals series like Hodge😜
 

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doppleganger said:
Aligns with Hodge at Hawthorn, therefore leadership validated.

But to go from a 4.5 up to a 5 Pendles needed to get done for DUI on the eve of a finals series like Hodge😜
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Which is more to my point, none of these blokes have unblemished records as leaders. To make out as if Judd was an average leader despite captaining a premiership team (something Pendles has never managed) all because Fev got drunk on national TV and made a few crass jokes is just idiotic.

Pendles oversaw plenty of player scandals in his time as captain, he was always a stellar player as an individual but he's certainly not getting a leg up on any of the others for leadership contributions if we're judging it based off dopey players doing dumb stuff while they were at the helm.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
End of the day none of us have a clue whether Pendles is actually a good captain or not. He speaks well, plays well and occasionally points some fingers and yells some stuff. That's about as much insight as us fans have on the matter.

I think it's safe to assume none of us have first hand experience playing under him, coaching him or working with him. To pretend to know his leadership capabilities + all the other players listed and then accurately judge them against one another is just silly.
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Just an insight then, that perhaps might illustrate his leadership and on field coaching abilities.

In July 2023, Pendles sought out the club's fitness advisor (Wade) stating that he wanted to be trained sufficiently (and obviously in excess of his perceived standard to that stage) so that he would NOT need to be rotated from the field during the final quarter of any more of our matches. His belief was that he would sacrifice his own rotation to allow others to get valuable rests whilst also maintaining the midfield coaching role that McCrae so values from him. With Wade's assistance Pendles (at age 35) did the extra work that enabled him to meet his own (and the coaches and team's) goals. He did not miss a final quarter minute for the rest of the '23 season which culminated of course with his magnificent final quarter effort in the GF.

His challenge to Nick Daicos at the centre bounce following Brisbane taking the lead in the final quarter of the granny was footy coaching 101. "Don't you want to be a part of this?" Daicos was following team rotations at the time and heading out of the centre bounce, Pendles over rode that plan with one of his own and his game sense paid off handsomely (as it often does)

Immediately the two of them would combine from a Mason Cox tap out to create the De Goey goal that broke Brisbane's heart.

Ask Matty Lloyd about Pendle's coaching ability and game knowledge, he's got first hand knowledge and speaks in awe of him.
 
Robroy22 said:
Just an insight then, that perhaps might illustrate his leadership and on field coaching abilities.

In July 2023, Pendles sought out the club's fitness advisor (Wade) stating that he wanted to be trained sufficiently (and obviously in excess of his perceived standard to that stage) so that he would NOT need to be rotated from the field during the final quarter of any more of our matches. His belief was that he would sacrifice his own rotation to allow others to get valuable rests whilst also maintaining the midfield coaching role that McCrae so values from him. With Wade's assistance Pendles (at age 35) did the extra work that enabled him to meet his own (and the coaches and team's) goals. He did not miss a final quarter minute for the rest of the '23 season which culminated of course with his magnificent final quarter effort in the GF.

His challenge to Nick Daicos at the centre bounce following Brisbane taking the lead in the final quarter of the granny was footy coaching 101. "Don't you want to be a part of this?" Daicos was following team rotations at the time and heading out of the centre bounce, Pendles over rode that plan with one of his own and his game sense paid off handsomely (as it often does)

Immediately the two of them would combine from a Mason Cox tap out to create the De Goey goal that broke Brisbane's heart.

Ask Matty Lloyd about Pendle's coaching ability and game knowledge, he's got first hand knowledge and speaks in awe of him.
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I'm not arguing Pendlebury isn't a good leader. I have family that work at the Pies and know how highly everyone in that organisation views him on and off field.

I'm arguing that Fadge's assessment of Judd's leadership based on something a drunken fool did on Brownlow night is ridiculous unless he's equally willing to attach the misdemeanours and scandals many Pies players have been caught up in to Pendlebury during his time as captain.

Both were fantastic leaders in their own rights. Judd captained a team to a premiership, Pendlebury consistently captained his team through finals campaigns but ultimately never achieved the ultimate success in the role.

My view is that neither Fevs idiotic actions nor the Pies players drug issues or run ins with the law should be attached to either players reputation as leaders. They were almost never in trouble themselves and presented as ultimate professionals throughout.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
I'm not arguing Pendlebury isn't a good leader. I have family that work at the Pies and know how highly everyone in that organisation views him on and off field.

I'm arguing that Fadge's assessment of Judd's leadership based on something a drunken fool did on Brownlow night is ridiculous unless he's equally willing to attach the misdemeanours and scandals many Pies players have been caught up in to Pendlebury during his time as captain.

Both were fantastic leaders in their own rights. Judd captained a team to a premiership, Pendlebury consistently captained his team through finals campaigns but ultimately never achieved the ultimate success in the role.

My view is that neither Fevs idiotic actions nor the Pies players drug issues or run ins with the law should be attached to either players reputation as leaders. They were almost never in trouble themselves and presented as ultimate professionals throughout.
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Where are the similar anecdotes to the above re: Pendlebury around Judd's leadership capabilities?
 
Fadge said:
Where are the similar anecdotes to the above re: Pendlebury around Judd's leadership capabilities?
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I'm not going to bother digging up old anecdotes re Judd's leadership. Objectively what occurred under Pendlebury's watch as captain was far worse than Judd's.

One is a premiership captain. One is a premiership player.

One is considered one of the greatest players of all time. One is considered one of the greatest Pies of all time.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
I'm arguing that Fadge's assessment of Judd's leadership based on something a drunken fool did on Brownlow night is ridiculous unless he's equally willing to attach the misdemeanours and scandals many Pies players have been caught up in to Pendlebury during his time as captain.
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That was a simple example of the lack of respect garnered by a leader.

The lack of anecdotes around Judd's leadership capabilities was another.

His inability to turn around the rampant drug culture at West Coast, and the behavioural issues at Carlton another.

They all point to him not being a 'great leader'.

I've no doubt he was a 'good leader' - you don't captain multiple AFL clubs for multiple years if you're not. But he's comfortably behind the Selwoods, Hodges and Pendleburys that we are talking about, and comparing him to, in this thread.
 
Fadge said:
That was a simple example of the lack of respect garnered by a leader.

The lack of anecdotes around Judd's leadership capabilities was another.

His inability to turn around the rampant drug culture at West Coast, and the behavioural issues at Carlton another.

They all point to him not being a 'great leader'.

I've no doubt he was a 'good leader' - you don't captain multiple AFL clubs for multiple years if you're not. But he's comfortably behind the Selwoods, Hodges and Pendleburys that we are talking about, and comparing him to, in this thread.
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Why were so many Pies players done for drug use and other issues under Pendlebury's captaincy if he was such a fantastic leader?
 
Obviously a champion of the game and the most significant Pie since Buckley, but at some point, the force-feeding by the media and the Collingwood marketing machine just makes you sick of hearing about them.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
I'm not going to bother digging up old anecdotes re Judd's leadership. Objectively what occurred under Pendlebury's watch as captain was far worse than Judd's.

One is a premiership captain. One is a premiership player.

One is considered one of the greatest players of all time. One is considered one of the greatest Pies of all time.
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Cousins was still the main man at the Eagles when they won that flag, he was the effective on-field leader and tactician despite losing the captaincy after his booze-bolt

Judd was a poor leader at Carlton and had zero impact in that respect

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

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Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

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