Opinion Senior coach options

[Sir Skid]

So he wants the dream position handed to him on a plate. Clearly eitheir he does not rate himself to turn around a poorly preforming team or he thinks he is too good for the hard work. Do not want him then.

In fairness it could also be that he thinks he will likely only get one crack at a senior coaching position if he doesn't get results. From his perspective, I would say the risk to him goes up dramatically with a dysfunctional or factional management group and a playing list that is inexperienced or has too little in substance.
Given our track record of sacking letting go coaches before their contract ends we may as well have a buyer beware sign out the front.
Won't bother Choco (hope I spelled that right for Rain Man) as he has done it before.

 

[VDS66]

If Richardson is that fussy, then maybe no thanks for me. Given our recruiting, trading etc, and what Summers and Pelchen have in place, I reckon we would be as exciting a club as any to coach moving forward... and I ma as cynical as the next fan about this club.

As more details emerge, it appears that sacking Watters was not an old knee jerk reaction... but was of Watters' own making.

I am all in favour of an experienced coach who can teach our players like Lyon did. McCartney is a great example.

what appears to cloud our judgement is that we have hindsight re ex coaches because they have done it already. So we get to see the good and the bad of their previous tenure. On the flipside, with assistants we have just seen what happens if you get it wrong. So we have to weigh this up as well.

Next cab off the rank means nothing if he turns out to be a clapped out falcon with a blown head gasket.

So what's more important?

Premiership experience and personality flaws... or apprenticeship and unproven senior capacity?

It's a tough call... especially given our situation since Lyon left.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I liked this all a helluvalot more when it was: "We dumped Scott to get [insert gun coach here]." This whole, "We sacked him, and now have to go through a length process to figure out how the hell to fix our mess" does not sit well with me, at all.

This SHOULD have played out like the Blues have done it a few times: Dumped somebody (I can't remember who, and don't care) to get Pagan, then dumped Ratts to get Malthouse. Even though in hindsight, Pagan didn't work out, the dump-for-gun-coach thing gave fans a sense of purpose, stability, continuity, etc.

This thread should have finished about five pages ago, and we should instead have a "Welcome to the Saints, [Coach]" thread going already.

 

[Albert Ross]

So he wants the dream position handed to him on a plate. Clearly eitheir he does not rate himself to turn around a poorly preforming team or he thinks he is too good for the hard work. Do not want him then.

Having been an assistant at Richmond (4th, 14th), Dogs (16th, 14th, 9th), Collingwood (5th, 6th, 8th), Essendon (8th, 14th), Carlton (5th, 10th) he has a great knack of helping teams decline (except the Dogs) or the bad luck of joining teams on the way down; he'd want to catch a team on the improve.

He is also probably a bit cynical about AFL job security. He loses his Essendon gig with the Hird-revolution, he loses his Carlton gig with the Malthouse-revolution.

For a guy with 13 years as an assistant he has managed to work for some unimpressive people. Frawley (2 years), Rohde (2), Eade (1), Malthouse (3), Knights (2), Ratten (2), Hinkley (1); and not managed to keep working with anyone for too long.

 

[Persevering Saint]

It's real simple with Robertson. I remember doing this once, but can't be stuffed doing it again: check where each team he assistant-coached finished the year/s he was there, and compare it to where they finished the year before. NO premierships, and some pretty disappointing results.

He is a crap coach, dressed up as gold.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I liked this all a helluvalot more when it was: "We dumped Scott to get [insert gun coach here]." This whole, "We sacked him, and now have to go through a length process to figure out how the hell to fix our mess" does not sit well with me, at all.

This SHOULD have played out like the Blues have done it a few times: Dumped somebody (I can't remember who, and don't care) to get Pagan, then dumped Ratts to get Malthouse. Even though in hindsight, Pagan didn't work out, the dump-for-gun-coach thing gave fans a sense of purpose, stability, continuity, etc.

Pagan didn't work. Verdict is still out on Malthouse. I agree this period is an anxious one and it makes most of us doubt where we are at and where we are going. But we got the coach out because things just weren't working with him. I'd rather us make sure we have the right man for the job and have a few tough weeks as fans than head hunt someone when he may or may not be the best available. The process option isn't bulletproof either, but I think that we are keen on Chocco and we just want to be sure of ourselves that he is the right man.

 

[Tiger71]

Just some feedback about Choco to balance out some of the complete and utter bullshit posted by some of you who have no idea about the bloke when you refer to his "personality flaws". People who have zero knowledge of him other than from media reports and "impressions" take his excitement and passion for the game and the list his working with for Choco being over the top. Or some suggest he likes it his way and can be unreasonable etc etc.

Complete and utter tripe. There is a reason for our young kids improving out of site since his arrival. A more patient and considerate teacher you will not find anywhere. There is also a reason he is on the boundary match day. He has a amazing knack in reading the feel of the game. If he believes a switch or match up needs to be made he is at the boundary so he can make it happen ASAP. Hardwick allows him full licence to do that.

When he was at port in the last years, there board and club was as about as rotten as it could get. Even though he was in that environment which was even during his premiership year, he still managed to get his his list to a flag and pinch one. If you guys are lucky enough to get him, you will get a bloke who will do everything he can to make you guys successful and make sure the players, admin and coaching team are all rowing the same way.

Oh one last thing. Choco does not suffer fools or those that dont have the same drive to succeed. He will not put up with anyone straying from the direction he and his coaching team set. Trust me on this, if he comes across he will be firm, focused but fair.

 

[boncer34]

Simon Goodwin entered anyones thoughts?

 

[Q TRAIN]

Tudor has some high praise going for him, also has the personality of a pet rock.
Harves has too many people worried he might fail like Bartlett, Knights, Schimmelbusch,Voss etc etc and tarnish his Favourite son standing.
Richardson has been around a while. Does that mean he has a lot of experience like Hinkley or is he being overlooked for a reason ?
Matty Knights? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Will Ratten and Voss do better 2nd time around or are they damaged goods?
Who knows
Just give Choco a Saints Polo shirt and a bloody whistle and let the new era begin

 

[L_W_P]

Just some feedback about Choco to balance out some of the complete and utter bullshit posted by some of you who have no idea about the bloke when you refer to his "personality flaws". People who have zero knowledge of him other than from media reports and "impressions" take his excitement and passion for the game and the list his working with for Choco being over the top. Or some suggest he likes it his way and can be unreasonable etc etc.

Complete and utter tripe. There is a reason for our young kids improving out of site since his arrival. A more patient and considerate teacher you will not find anywhere. There is also a reason he is on the boundary match day. He has a amazing knack in reading the feel of the game. If he believes a switch or match up needs to be made he is at the boundary so he can make it happen ASAP. Hardwick allows him full licence to do that.

When he was at port in the last years, there board and club was as about as rotten as it could get. Even though he was in that environment which was even during his premiership year, he still managed to get his his list to a flag and pinch one. If you guys are lucky enough to get him, you will get a bloke who will do everything he can to make you guys successful and make sure the players, admin and coaching team are all rowing the same way.

This guy knows what he is talking about

 

[phantom13]

Williams is the best available, it really is that simple.

 

[VDS66]

Just some feedback about Choco to balance out some of the complete and utter bullshit posted by some of you who have no idea about the bloke when you refer to his "personality flaws". People who have zero knowledge of him other than from media reports and "impressions" take his excitement and passion for the game and the list his working with for Choco being over the top. Or some suggest he likes it his way and can be unreasonable etc etc.

Complete and utter tripe. There is a reason for our young kids improving out of site since his arrival. A more patient and considerate teacher you will not find anywhere. There is also a reason he is on the boundary match day. He has a amazing knack in reading the feel of the game. If he believes a switch or match up needs to be made he is at the boundary so he can make it happen ASAP. Hardwick allows him full licence to do that.

When he was at port in the last years, there board and club was as about as rotten as it could get. Even though he was in that environment which was even during his premiership year, he still managed to get his his list to a flag and pinch one. If you guys are lucky enough to get him, you will get a bloke who will do everything he can to make you guys successful and make sure the players, admin and coaching team are all rowing the same way.

with respect... factual logic has no place on footy forums.

I might also just point out that where a coach has worked as an assistant has zero to do with their capabilities. You can twist stats to suit any argument... because if it did, then Neeld, Rhode, Watters, Bailey and co would all be senior coaches.

HTF people can say that Harvey is bad because of the team's over all performance is beyond me.

Yeah, pies are going backwards... and then int he next breath we accept that they are going through a rebuild of sorts. Go figure.

 

[phantom13]

Having said that, i feel like we will find a way to complicate it, f**k it up completely and wind up with Gary Ayres or some other stupid option.

 

[Winners Only]

Choco is the man for me!

Would be a good fit for the Saints, he has had time to reflect on his past experiences at three different clubs. He has won a flag and had lead a club through an era of success.

He is a little older than the others but is as passionate for the game as he ever was. That sort of drive is infectious and it wouldn't take long for him to get the place 'buzzing' again !

Just remember the golden rule in football - the first option is always the best !

 

[Squizz]

There is a reason for our young kids improving out of site since his arrival.

Without having watched much of Richmond, can I ask who these kids are (that weren't high draft picks)? Daniel Jackson appears to have been a revelation, Troy Chaplin was an excellent pickup getting 3rd in the B&F (with other imports in Houli and Grigg in the top 10), and Maric has been a really solid choice. Any team should be competitive with Cotchin, Deledio, Martin, Foley, Grigg (and whoever else) running through the midfield.

Coburg finished below Sandringham (who is widely considered to have had a poor season) and Nahas finished 2nd in the B&F there.

 

[From 45]

Just some feedback about Choco to balance out some of the complete and utter bullshit posted by some of you who have no idea about the bloke when you refer to his "personality flaws". People who have zero knowledge of him other than from media reports and "impressions" take his excitement and passion for the game and the list his working with for Choco being over the top. Or some suggest he likes it his way and can be unreasonable etc etc.

Complete and utter tripe. There is a reason for our young kids improving out of site since his arrival. A more patient and considerate teacher you will not find anywhere. There is also a reason he is on the boundary match day. He has a amazing knack in reading the feel of the game. If he believes a switch or match up needs to be made he is at the boundary so he can make it happen ASAP. Hardwick allows him full licence to do that.

When he was at port in the last years, there board and club was as about as rotten as it could get. Even though he was in that environment which was even during his premiership year, he still managed to get his his list to a flag and pinch one. If you guys are lucky enough to get him, you will get a bloke who will do everything he can to make you guys successful and make sure the players, admin and coaching team are all rowing the same way.

Oh one last thing. Choco does not suffer fools or those that dont have the same drive to succeed. He will not put up with anyone straying from the direction he and his coaching team set. Trust me on this, if he comes across he will be firm, focused but fair.

A majority of us have stated he's great one on one but my issue with him is I think he will have holes in his game plan( defensive set ups) as I reckon the game has gone past him. How do I know? I've spoken to him a fair few times

 

[Tiger71]

Without having watched much of Richmond, can I ask who these kids are (that weren't high draft picks)? Daniel Jackson appears to have been a revelation, Troy Chaplin was an excellent pickup getting 3rd in the B&F (with other imports in Houli and Grigg in the top 10), and Maric has been a really solid choice. Any team should be competitive with Cotchin, Deledio, Martin, Foley, Grigg (and whoever else) running through the midfield.

Coburg finished below Sandringham (who is widely considered to have had a poor season) and Nahas finished 2nd in the B&F there.

In reference to coburg. This year was the last year of our relationship, it had a huge effect on Coburg and hence there performance. In regards to Marks effect on our kids. Dusty's improvement this year was fantastic, Rance stepped up again, Vlaustin and Ellis had great years. Matt Whites another that Chocco worked with.

As development coach, he also drove to make sure other then Vlaustin who is a freak, the rest of our 2012 picks stayed in the VFL to develop. Kids like Mcbean who kicked over 35 goals in 15 games ( on par to hogan and co), williams developing a huge inside game, hell the list goes on and on. All guided by Choco and his team.

Dont misunderstand me, all coaches need credit for that but if Choco was a really important kog in our development team. He has an amazing way of seeing things in our kids and challenging them to work on developing them. Arnot is a perfect example, prior to choco it looked like he was going to be delisted. After choco go his hands on him, he challenged him and once Arnot stepped up he started playing seniors and more importantly had a impact

 

[Tiger71]

A majority of us have stated he's great one on one but my issue with him is I think he will have holes in his game plan( defensive set ups) as I reckon the game has gone past him. How do I know? I've spoken to him a fair few times

On this. Richmond finished as the 3rd best defensive side, scores against in the comp. IMO do not judge him from a old game plan used when he was head coach. A long time has past and IMO if he was your head coach he would already have "his version" of today's and more importantly tomorrows game plan. One thing he is, is a thinker

 

[From 45]

On this. Richmond finished as the 3rd best defensive side, scores against in the comp. IMO do not judge him from a old game plan used when he was head coach. A long time has past and IMO if he was your head coach he would already have "his version" of today's and more importantly tomorrows game plan. One thing he is, is a thinker

Agree to disagree with this one but nonetheless he will have my support if he's appointed.

 

[Tiger71]

Agree to disagree with this one but nonetheless he will have my support if he's appointed.

Just on this though. He will have a team around him. He is excellent as you say in one on one development/motivation and reads the feel of a game better then most but if your worried that his game plan will have holes, he I am sure will have assistants around him to cover those. I have not heard from the club that Choco has an issue with delegation, the reverse in fact.

 

[From 45]

Just on this though. He will have a team around him. He is excellent as you say in one on one development/motivation and reads the feel of a game better then most but if your worried that his game plan will have holes, he I am sure will have assistants around him to cover those. I have not heard from the club that Choco has an issue with delegation, the reverse in fact.

Yep fair point

 

[Hva sher a]

Pechen understandably has a major say, as he is head of football operations. I smiled as I thought it was an interesting question coming from a pies supporter, with King Eddie ruling the roost there. Eddie wanted Buckley as coach, Eddie got Buckley as coach. How is that working out for you? Pelchen isn't King Eddie, so the question maybe is best directed at your club.

I would agree that Bucks is still learning on the job. Difference is that while Eddie has a lot of influence he (a) has the runs on the board, having overseen a lot of good off-field changes for us. And few will argue that we haven't been an off field success since Eddie took the helm. Secondly (b) while Ed is the front man, outsiders don't realise the influence and balance others provide eg Pert, Hine and previously Walsh.

Finally, while I'm not yet convinced of Bucks as a match day tactician, he has clearly rejuvenated the list. Mick was great for us but it's doubtful he would've done much better than 4th in 2012 given the injuries we had (its not like he's set the world on fire at Carlton either). Everyone will argue that Bucks inherited a good one but the list was starting to get overtaken by others so we needed to refresh and avoid bottoming out like the Dogs and to some extent the Saints have had to do.

 

[Albert Ross]

Just on this though. He will have a team around him. He is excellent as you say in one on one development/motivation and reads the feel of a game better then most but if your worried that his game plan will have holes, he I am sure will have assistants around him to cover those. I have not heard from the club that Choco has an issue with delegation, the reverse in fact.

This is probably going to be the bigger problem for the Saints in '14. Whoever gets appointed will then have to think about his support team, and won't really be able to get too much organised pre-Christmas break. Whoever gets the job will barely be able to work with the players before the New Year, and may not even have a support team in place by then.

 

[Squizz]

All guided by Choco and his team.

Where'd Hardwick go?

Dusty's improvement - been a good player for some time? (3rd in the B&F in 2011)

Rance - not really a kid any more, and has been a regular for a while (played well last year IIRC).

Vlaustin and Ellis - Ellis looked a great pick before Williams arrived (I seem to remember him playing well last year)? Vlaustin looks good (has he developed "out of sight" or was he just a good player as his pick 9 would indicate?).

Matt White - maybe he was a sub-type, but averaging 12.6 possessions doesn't appear mind-blowing. Pretty old kid BTW!

Mcbean - big call to not credit Brendon Lade (who is the one I saw at the VFL games).

Arnot - I don't know who he is, so I'll take your word for his 4 AFL games.

I'd guess the improvement of mature players like Jackson (and players from other clubs like Chaplin) to have been more pivotal. There should always be a few kids on the improve, as we saw at the Saints this year.

 

[Moral Decay]

So he wants the dream position handed to him on a plate. Clearly eitheir he does not rate himself to turn around a poorly preforming team or he thinks he is too good for the hard work. Do not want him then.

It's about perspective isn't it, his version will include, he won't go to a club in disarray and is afraid of being burned, like Bailey. A career coach that will never be the messiah, ala Mathews or Malthouse, (not my opinion that they are), he has to make the most of his chances, as I understand it's a very calculated position.