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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Setanta O'Hailpin punches and kicks Cameron Cloke
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Then maybe he should moderate a site known as BigAmericanFooty, instead of slagging off at our game, which by the way is a hell of a lot quicker and probably has more contact in any given time period than most sports.
I just wonder how inadequate a lot of those playing american football would feel without their armour? Perhaps a lot would be heaqring footsteps a lot more knowing that the buffer between them and the collision wasnt there anymore. I wonder how many of them have stood under a high ball and allowed a pack to descend on them.
Theres is a tough sport, granted, but ours has a unique randomness that not many other sports has and its the fine line between legal and illegal that sees the physicality in our game occur after which it is adjudicated on.
We've all probably got a whack in the brains while taking part in sport or kung fu fighting with mates in school. Remember how you reacted when it happened? How you assumed the foetal position and covered the traumatised area with your hands and locked your knees together so tight the jaws of life couldn't separate them. Do you honestly think Cloke was kicked in the balls? Watch the footage. He doesn't react in any way to the contact. It hits him in the upper thigh/ass region. BIIIIIIIIIG difference (as we all know). You can see clearly in the video that the impact makes Clokes thighs/glutes move. If someone kicked you in the nads with enough force to do this you would have a serious lump in your throat.
JeffDunne
TheBrownDog
Sure BigXenophobe.com wouldn't be more appropriate for you Fu?
Shocking I now, but there's even a board on BigFooty to discuss American politics.
I wonder how you get through life not only wearing ignorance as badge of honour - but bragging about it publicly?
Usually I'd say to someone in such circumstances that if you're ignorant on a subject, don't comment. In your case though that would probably require a vow of silence.
Should we break out tape measures and start comparing sizes?
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It was simply terrible to hear about a Carlton player doing this to a Carlton player!
He should have done it to someone more deserving of it though such as Brendan Fevola!
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The game has never been more free flowing but hard and blind sided collisions occur more regularly now than ever before because so many possessions are taken with the flight of the ball. It's now more dangerous to a player to keep his eye on the ball than ever before.
Rule changes adapt to the play, not the other way 'round. The sport meandered along for 100 years with little thought put into tactical potential. Until the '90s, it was a game based around grabbing the ball and hoofing it downfield as fast and as far as possible. Soccer, hockey, basketball were light years in front of Australian Rules until the '90s. They, like 'Rules, are team games involving the use of a ball and goals. The principles are the same. Robert Walls, an early innovator, got his idea of the huddle from an assistant coach with a basketball background, according to his speil when he speaks at functions. The game evolves because coaches try to engineer an edge, the rules committees just clean up the mess.
A fundamental difference between Australian Rules and soccer-hockey is the off side rule. In the latter, the players line up facing each other, like armies. Despite that fundamental difference, once the game starts, all are team games with the aim of putting the ball-puck through a goal which the opponent defends.
If anything is to be learned from last night's Coll-WCE game it is that there will be even greater flooding this year as the players power up and down the ground - just as they do in soccer, basketball and hockey. It isn't the rules that bring Australian Rules closer to those games - it's the coaches.
Pie eyed
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A far easier comparison would be to watch the recent superbowl then the Nab Cup match.
The difference in all aspects of the games is not so much glaring, but blinding.
AFL (the aussie version) wins hands down in any comparison other than based solely on patriotism.
You can push any cart you like.
JeffDunne
TheBrownDog
Why would you want to?
Patriotism is for bogans.
And tell me, how does "AFL wins hands down"? Surely that is the most subjective of observations?
Take out domestic audiences and tell me how many people watch the two sports internationally?
The NFL sells out Wembley in the games they host there. The game last year had 300,000 apply for tickets. Can't imagine an AFL game in the old-dart would come close to that and I would consider England the one country that knows something about Australia and our sport.
Anyhow, I'm not into the 'my sports better than your sport' debates, they're moronic. I love both games and I reckon both games are currently being screwed over by their officials.
FWIW, both sports are incredibly tough to play, but both sports still have it's Bryce Gibbs/Aaron Fiora type players that pull out of contests.
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JeffDunne
TheBrownDog
And in the interests of balance, cheap shots happen in all sports :
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I don't know if GG was busy watching a replay of the superbowl last night but you should watch the NAB cup game if you get a chance. You will see a young kid get smashed and break his jaw. Unfortunately he had no helmet to protect him.
Oh, and on a flipside to your comments about Americans perceptions of AFL i should give you my thoughts on the NFL. I have never watched or enjoyed girdiron but decided to watch the superbowl with a few friends. To our amazement we continually found ourselves commenting on how soft it was or altleast how surprised we were that it wasnt a lot tougher. I mean, the QB couldn't even be touched without getting a penalty awarded to him. Whats with that? Are they to fragile to take hip and shoulders?
Oh, and on a flipside to your comments about Americans perceptions of AFL i should give you my thoughts on the NFL. I have never watched or enjoyed girdiron but decided to watch the superbowl with a few friends. To our amazement we continually found ourselves commenting on how soft it was or altleast how surprised we were that it wasnt a lot tougher. I mean, the QB couldn't even be touched without getting a penalty awarded to him. Whats with that? Are they to fragile to take hip and shoulders?
JeffDunne
TheBrownDog
I have always used you as the benchmark, thank you for leading the way
Was that comment an attempt to convince those still in doubt?
If so it's probably your only worthwhile contribution in this thread.
that you lead the way in terms of ignorance?Was that comment an attempt to convince those still in doubt?
If so it's probably your only worthwhile contribution in this thread.
Thank you, my work here is done, you have assumed the mantle of the leader of ignorance
- Banned
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I missed that bit. I'd better watch it again.
Exe Gesis
Kylo was here
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D Mitchell...
Your post genuinely discussing AR etc was a good post.
It's true about how AR remained pretty much innocent for 100 years tactically speaking. Only in the 1980's roughly did we start seeing coaches try all these different things.
But you have to see that the AFL itself, the rules it has been bringing in and re-interpreting, have changed AR and made it closer to Gaelic, and also basketball. Where it's more about body checking, about clogging up zones in the back half as a way to stop ball progress, with increased penalty and emphasis on softening the extent of body contact, almost eradicating it. So in the end, the game has degenerated as a spectacle and contest that it resembles more like soccer or basketball, where players dont tackle, but look to thwart, to clog up lanes, to flood, ball movement up and down the field like basketball, quick rebounds and then flooding back and zone clogging, lots of sideways short uncontested passing to get into shot range. It's become very unattractive to watch with endless whistle-blowing for marks, mainly uncontested sideways marks, like in basketball how players circulate thru the key trying to get that player to come out unmanned to accept an uncontested pass. Players in AFL used to dive in for the ball, about wanting possession of the ball. Now it's more about holding back, waiting for someone else to have the ball so you can stand over him without any physicality, straddle him, hold the ball in with your feet, grab a bit of jersey and raise your hand to the umpire. And the rules all around marking and attempted spoiling, etc.
Ice Hockey is still in essence what it always was. Gridiron is still the same game. But AR has been changing. It was like a blend of Ice Hockey and Soccer. Fast paced, kicking-centric game, but with tackling and vigorous body work. But where it is now and heading it's more like Soccer, the emphasis on body work taken away, like Basketball on grass. Ie, Gaelic. The Irish have said often in the past that the International Rules games were unfair due to how AR was more body-work game than Gaelic, and so Gaelic players at a disadvantage playing hybrid IR game. That to foster international games, the two separate codes should try to hybrid more as a way forward in the future. I would think there's some agenda there to really blend the game. Heard the GAA are gonna bring in marks and some aspects of AR, and the AFL game evolving slowly towards Gaelic concepts related to body-work.
Your post genuinely discussing AR etc was a good post.
It's true about how AR remained pretty much innocent for 100 years tactically speaking. Only in the 1980's roughly did we start seeing coaches try all these different things.
But you have to see that the AFL itself, the rules it has been bringing in and re-interpreting, have changed AR and made it closer to Gaelic, and also basketball. Where it's more about body checking, about clogging up zones in the back half as a way to stop ball progress, with increased penalty and emphasis on softening the extent of body contact, almost eradicating it. So in the end, the game has degenerated as a spectacle and contest that it resembles more like soccer or basketball, where players dont tackle, but look to thwart, to clog up lanes, to flood, ball movement up and down the field like basketball, quick rebounds and then flooding back and zone clogging, lots of sideways short uncontested passing to get into shot range. It's become very unattractive to watch with endless whistle-blowing for marks, mainly uncontested sideways marks, like in basketball how players circulate thru the key trying to get that player to come out unmanned to accept an uncontested pass. Players in AFL used to dive in for the ball, about wanting possession of the ball. Now it's more about holding back, waiting for someone else to have the ball so you can stand over him without any physicality, straddle him, hold the ball in with your feet, grab a bit of jersey and raise your hand to the umpire. And the rules all around marking and attempted spoiling, etc.
Ice Hockey is still in essence what it always was. Gridiron is still the same game. But AR has been changing. It was like a blend of Ice Hockey and Soccer. Fast paced, kicking-centric game, but with tackling and vigorous body work. But where it is now and heading it's more like Soccer, the emphasis on body work taken away, like Basketball on grass. Ie, Gaelic. The Irish have said often in the past that the International Rules games were unfair due to how AR was more body-work game than Gaelic, and so Gaelic players at a disadvantage playing hybrid IR game. That to foster international games, the two separate codes should try to hybrid more as a way forward in the future. I would think there's some agenda there to really blend the game. Heard the GAA are gonna bring in marks and some aspects of AR, and the AFL game evolving slowly towards Gaelic concepts related to body-work.
- Banned
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If it's true that there is less body contact, then that's because the coaches dictate getting on with the game, not the rules. I think there's just as much, if not more conact now. Tackling is fiercer and more damaging because the players are bigger, faster and practice full time. There are more collisions between blokes coming from different directions. There are fewer contests but that's because the coaches dictate not to kick to a contest. There's no rule which forbids a player kicking to a pack.
Players preferring to sweat on the player winning the ball has always existed, if there's more of it, it's because players tackle better now, the rules haven't changed. The players are now so quick with their hands that they can get the ball and feed it out quickly. There's as much of that which means fewer packs as players sweating on the ball winner, anyway, who wants to see a mountain of blokes over the ball ?
The rules around marking and attempted spoiling haven't changed. Over the years taking out the arms and pushing in the back were allowed to creep in by lax umpiring. They are now stricter - good thing too. The bloke who risks getting to the front of the pack should be encouraged, not those who take the easy way and push the bloke in front out of the contest or swipe his arms instead of going for the ball. More contests, fewer spoils.
The sideways movement of the ball annoys us all but that's not the rules, that's the coaches. Is extending the length of the kick from 10 to 20 metres before a mark one of the rule changes you disapprove of ? If the game is going to be a possession game then that rule change is designed to introduce more uncertainty, which is what we want.
Do I detect a conspiracy theory that the AFL and GAA are attempting to merge the games by stealth ?
Exe Gesis
Kylo was here
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Like I said, your points in the first post I agree with, that THAT has influenced it. But the AFL rules committee has ALSO changed rules, and re-interpreted them. That's where I'm touching on.
New rules brought in about charging and shirt-fronts when players are over the ball. That wasnt a rule before. Is now. Argument: safer now. But, all these applications of new rules do mold the game and hence players have to adapt and play 'softer'....ie, half-hearted physicality because penalties are harsher. Eg: better now to not go in for the ball, and fight for possession of it, lest you be penalized for holding. In the past, players diving in for the ball looking for possession, and a way to dish the ball off.
Hand on the back, even if not applying force, was being penalized. Players in front often diving or exaggerating contact to get a free. Rules about having to use the forearms only. Etc. What im pointing out is merely that the AFL are always fiddling with the game's physicality and extent of contact.
They're trialing rules. What about the no-mark backwards kick? That's only going to increase flooding. But overall, the game of AR is now predominantly a game about uncontested football. That's where it's been ruined. The Coaches as you said have influenced that, and I agree. But the AFL are to blame as well because they're also interested in that.
Yes, Im saying that also. You're seeing with all these changes etc a less body-work game (AR) and more conceptual rules about use of hands, forearms, about checking rules used in Gaelic that are probably on the AFL agenda---like if a player beats you you cant tackle them from behind etc. And that it's also an effort to make AFL more soccer-like for soccer fans to choose that instead of soccer, marketing to soccer moms, etc. Dual agenda.
Exe Gesis
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This thread is way off-topic now and posts could be merged to another thread. Apologies for that. Anyone still wishing to discuss the Cloke-Setanta issue feel free to re-focus thread back on topic.
Talk about cheap shots - thought you were above that JD.
Shouldn't that have been Farren Ray now rather than Aaron Fiora.
evo
Let's hit the f*ken road!
Still no public outpouring of rage from Damir.
Dissapointing.
Dissapointing.
JeffDunne
TheBrownDog
Thank you for getting the thread back on topic.
What were you saying about cheap shots? Clearly they're not above you.
(FWIW, I was simply picking out the most obvious examples)
Exe Gesis
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All sports see cheap-shots...
Boxing (biting, low blows)
Racing (bumping cars off the road)
Horseracing (impeding/bumping horses)
Football (head-hunting, eyegouging, biting, nut-twisting, pinching, ass-poking)
Soccer (knee kicks, ankle stomping, elbows, head buts)
Baseball/Cricket (full tosses at the head, running into batters/bowlers or pegging the ball at them)
Hockey (range of stuff with the stick or without)
Basketball (elbows, knees to the groin, pushing over a player in mid flight)
etc
Boxing (biting, low blows)
Racing (bumping cars off the road)
Horseracing (impeding/bumping horses)
Football (head-hunting, eyegouging, biting, nut-twisting, pinching, ass-poking)
Soccer (knee kicks, ankle stomping, elbows, head buts)
Baseball/Cricket (full tosses at the head, running into batters/bowlers or pegging the ball at them)
Hockey (range of stuff with the stick or without)
Basketball (elbows, knees to the groin, pushing over a player in mid flight)
etc
Mr Smiff
Club Legend
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
JD, i hate you for posting that Pinkston video again.
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