Should Dean Bailey be suspended from all AFL activities...

[saj_21]

..........and the Melbourne Football Club fined and punished for not allowing the team to play on its merits to win. And just in case anyone here has missed the reason, here's the article : http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25871321-5012432,00.html

..........and it is NOT written by Patrick Smith.

Melbourne's blatant effort to tank and sandbag should be reviewed by the AFL. But of course we all know the AFL will do nothing because Vlad reckons that tanking does not exist by any team to get the Priority Pick.

LOL... we lost by a kick after the siren...the changes bailey made actually improved the sides performance!

What are you people talking about , By shifting players and experimenting with positional changes etc that and those moves nearly won the Demons the match .

If the demons had of won this match and they did win , (the umpire did not hear the siren in time that's another story ) everybody would still say the Demons were tanking .

The Eagles have put some of this to bed . Or i bet ya in your eye's they cheated as well .

You can't tell players to lose it just won't happen , How many Grand finals have been won by coach's doing the ridiculous , putting someone up forward who wins the game etc etc .

You have to remember high draft picks don't gaurantee you a grand final or the best player . look at Daniel rich ,pick 7 and the pick of the crop .

Whats Dean Baily supposed to do not make changes ? ask the Journos what he should do , maybe take a public poll and ask the public to pick his team .

The Eagles and the Demons both have teams of promising players that are going to be good enough to take their club further .

Have a look at Carlton all their no1 picks are not going to get them a flag .

Good post, i agree with you comments i just like to add the PP should be removed to stop all this tanking talk.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Caretaker Richmond coach Jade Rawlings was subdued...

A newspaper writer saying that he thinks un-named people within a club think something else about another club?

This is what you call a damning indictment? Don't make me laugh...

LOL... we lost by a kick after the siren...the changes Bailey made actually improved the side's performance!

Exactly. Not that it really matters to these characters what he did or didn't do - all that really matters is that we're on the bottom of the ladder & we have a certain number of wins next to our name

It is ironic that a fan of the "E's" should be having the temerity to be challenging our integrity as a club though, what with their remarkably UNCLEAN recent history- as I said, wife-beating, assault, drugs and extensive salary cap cheating.

Good post, i agree with you comments i just like to add the PP should be removed to stop all this tanking talk.

Amen to that Brother. I heartily agree.

 

[Spartan]

LOL... we lost by a kick after the siren...the changes bailey made actually improved the sides performance.

Do you honestly believe Paul Johnson on Jack Riewoldt and then Nathan Brown or playing your two best defenders in the forwardline with the game on the line improved your performance?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Why don't you go back and read what I've ALREADY said about these moves before now on this thread Spartan... I don't have to repost it again on the same thread surely?

Geez... I've posted a full rundown including every one of these moves on 5 threads now, and people are still trying to pretend it's not there- this apparent ignorance and persistent "amnesia" by certain people strikes me as very convenient...

And, like Sportsdarts said, what exactly would you and the other "witch-hunters" have us do... have some kind of televised phone/SMS polling to choose OUR team and make OUR team selections?

It's absurd.

 

[Spartan]

Why don't you go back and read what I've ALREADY said about these moves before now on this thread Spartan... I don't have to repost it again on the same thread surely?

Geez... I've posted a full rundown including every one of these moves on 5 threads now, and people are still trying to pretend it's not there- this apparent ignorance and persistent "amnesia" by certain people strikes me as very convenient...

And, like Sportsdarts said, what exactly would you and the other "witch-hunters" have us do... have some kind of televised phone/SMS polling to choose OUR team and make OUR team selections?

It's absurd.

Please humour me just this once.

Would you play Paul Johnson on Nathan Brown and have Warnock/Frawley up forward, especially with the game close or would you have Paul Johnson up forward and have your best defenders in the backline.

Simple question. Apologies if you've already addressed it.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I HAVE addressed the moves made. I've addressed them and posted about them - at length - on 6 threads now, including this one.

Hence my extreme exasperation.

Incidentally, referring back to my original comments about the stench of corruption and criminality that resides within the "E's" fraternity... as it happens, the "E's" rorted the salary cap for SIX years.

Make no mistake... these breaches were as severe as any in the history of the game...

 

[Spartan]

Please humour me just this once.

Would you play Paul Johnson on Nathan Brown and have Warnock/Frawley up forward, especially with the game close or would you have Paul Johnson up forward and have your best defenders in the backline.

Simple question. Apologies if you've already addressed it.

I HAVE addressed the moves made. I've addressed them and posted about them - at length - on 6 threads now, including this one.

Hence my extreme exasperation.

Incidentally, referring back to my original comments about the stench of corruption and criminality that resides within the "E's" fraternity... as it happens, the "E's" rorted the salary cap for SIX years.

Make no mistake... these breaches were as severe as any in the history of the game...

You didn't answer the question.

No need for a long bullshit explanation.

Q: Was playing Paul Johnson in defence on Riewoldt/Brown and playing Warnock/Frawley up forward with the game on the line conducive to winning the game.

Yes or no?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Read what I've already said. I'm truly tired of repeating myself and answering the same things over and over.

And I've found myself answering so many uninformed criticisms from people who know nothing about our club or our players, and in most cases didn't even watch the match they're attacking us about.

I've given a full rundown of the moves on 6 different threads, including this one, and I've answered individual questions about these moves at least 20 times more, but I guess I'll do it again:

YES it was "conducive" as you put it, because there was no other option.

We were down to barely 18 fit players, Johnson was a dead weight and there was nowhere else to put him.

And - not that it seems to matter to you, because I've said it before and it seems like I'm talking to the wall here... but Warnock and Frawley played WELL in the roles they were given!

PS- Did you actually watch the match? Because if you didn't, you're in even less of a position to make judgements than you already are, since you haven't been watching our team week in, week out, like we have.

 

[Spartan]

Read what I've already said. I'm truly tired of repeating myself and answering the same things over and over.

And I've found myself answering so many uninformed criticisms from people who know nothing about our club or our players, and in most cases didn't even watch the match they're attacking us about.

I've given a full rundown of the moves on 6 different threads, including this one, and I've answered individual questions about these moves at least 20 times more, but I guess I'll do it again:

YES it was "conducive" as you put it, because there was no other option.

We were down to barely 18 fit players, Johnson was a dead weight and there was nowhere else to put him.

And - not that it seems to matter to you, because I've said it before and it seems like I'm talking to the wall here... but Warnock and Frawley played WELL in the roles they were given!

PS- Did you actually watch the match? Because if you didn't, you're in even less of a position to make judgements than you already are, since you haven't been watching our team week in, week out, like we have.

You still haven't answered the question.

Its a simple question.

If Johnson was a liability he would have been liable in the forward line or the backline.

In the backline, he got 2 goals kicked on him by Brown. In the forward line he might have still been a spud, but wouldn't be conceding goals.

Just because you say something doesn't make it fact.

There was other options and there was somewhere else to put him.

What did Frawley and Warnock do so well in the forward line? How many goals did they kick? How many did they set up?

So back to the very simple question.

Johnson forward and Warnock/Frawley back would have been more conducive for a Melbourne win.

Yes or no?

And to answer your question, i listend to the second half of the match on the radio on the way to the Eagles game. I watched bits and pieces of it later that day.

So yes or no?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I have clearly answered that question in my previous post. I must have answered that or a similar question in different forms from one person or another over 20 times now.

It's seriously getting nutty that we Demons have had to defend every single move in that match so continuously and repetitively- often against utterly bogus claims dreamt up by people who never saw the game.

I'm glad you're doing better than that, and have at least seen/heard the majority of the game too. But nevertheless - asked and answered already, ok?

I mean, it's pretty much got to the point where I reckon I ought to just have a post copied down that I can cut & paste in at the relevant moment.

As for the other stuff you asked me, which is already contained within a previous post on this thread and which I have posted on SIX different threads now... are you actually needing me to re-post it again?

I guess I will if called upon, although I would've thought you could just go back to the post and read it yourself there.

No, I can't remember those statistics, I would have to go back and check, if I was called upon to do so.

My observations of the match, having seen it once on UStream, once on the delayed broadcast, and AGAIN through Bigpond Video, confirm to me that moving Warnock and Frawley to the forward line was the right thing to do.

 

[cannons]

You still haven't answered the question.

Its a simple question.

If Johnson was a liability he would have been liable in the forward line or the backline.

In the backline, he got 2 goals kicked on him by Brown. In the forward line he might have still been a spud, but wouldn't be conceding goals.

Just because you say something doesn't make it fact.

There was other options and there was somewhere else to put him.

What did Frawley and Warnock do so well in the forward line? How many goals did they kick? How many did they set up?

So back to the very simple question.

Johnson forward and Warnock/Frawley back would have been more conducive for a Melbourne win.

Yes or no?

And to answer your question, i listend to the second half of the match on the radio on the way to the Eagles game. I watched bits and pieces of it later that day.

So yes or no?

Spartan, I thought your rinse and repeat exploits were confined to the bay, obviously not.

 

[Spartan]

I have clearly answered that question in my previous post. I must have answered that or a similar question in different forms from one person or another over 20 times now.

As for the other stuff you asked me, which is already contained within a previous post on this thread and which I have posted on SIX different threads now... are you actually needing me to re-post it again?

I guess I will if called upon, although I would've thought you could just go back to the post and read it yourself there.

No, I can't remember those statistics, I would have to go back and check.

I have read some of your comments. Unfortunately your opinion isn't fact.

The reason you continue to dodge the question is either because you realise what the obvious answer is or you really do believe the bullshit you're trying to sell.

An U14s coach would have told you when the game is on the line you need to play your best players in their best positions. Warnock and Frawley might have played average/ok up forward but they are your best defenders.

The fact that Bailey played a spud ruckman on the opposition's most dangerous KPP in Riewoldt and then on their dangerous small forward who kicked two goals on him tells me Bailey either isn't a coach's ar$ehole or that he was tanking.

Pathetic really.

 

[Spartan]

Spartan, I thought your rinse and repeat exploits were confined to the bay, obviously not.

This isn't the bay, so try and leave your lame off topic posts there.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Referring to your second-last post, is this like when you asserted that Chris Masten was a hair's breadth away from being an elite player?

READ what I've already said - on thread, after thread, after thread - about these moves now. If you can make a credible case that I'm somehow wrong in what I said about these things, in the NUMEROUS posts I have made now, then let's hear it.

If you want to continue to make these "authoritative" claims about our coach, it only stands to reason that YOU should say what YOU would have done if you were coaching in that position, where we had barely 18 fit players on the field, and were missing essential people in different positions.

I have made a cogent argument, along with other Demons supporters, on thread after thread, as to why these moves were made, and what the benefits of these moves were.

NOBODY seeking to rabble-rouse against us has made any sort of cogent argument against the points made.

Which shows the utter lack of credibility in those seeking to continue the witch-hunt against us.

 

[cannons]

This isn't the bay, so try and leave your lame off topic posts there.

I fail to see how it's off topic when it clearly relates to the topic at hand, as you continue to post the same thing over and over even though W33 has responded to the positional changes in question earlier in the thread.

 

[Spartan]

You mean like when you said Chris Masten was a hair's breadth away from being an elite player?

READ what I've already said - on thread, after thread, after thread - about these moves now. If you can make a credible case that I'm somehow wrong in what I said about these things, in the NUMEROUS posts I have made now, then let's hear it.

If you want to continue to make these "authoritative" claims, it only stands to reason that YOU should say what YOU would have done if you were coaching in that position, where we had barely 18 fit players on the field, and were missing essential people in different positions.

Yes, i do believe Chris Masten will become an elite player if he continues the improvement shown over the last couple of months. Quite a few people on the main board agree.

You forget that this isn't bay 13.

Anyway not sure why you're bringing up Masten in this thread.

Unfortunately i'm not the only one who questions the stupid moves made by Bailey during the game.

You still haven't answered a simple question. If Johnson (a ruckman come forward) is such a spud why was he playing on the most dangerous forwards when the game was on the line when you had perfectly fit and good defenders playing as forwards?

Its not a hard question.

 

[Spartan]

I fail to see how it's off topic when it clearly relates to the topic at hand, as you continue to post the same thing over and over even though W33 has responded to the positional changes in question earlier in the thread.

I'll be happy to stand corrected if you point out where it was explained that your spud ruckman was better in defence marking the opposition's most dangerous forwards when you had multiple defender options playing in attack.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

If you are so sure that the moves which were made were wrong, and you are so sure that my assessment of these moves is also somehow wrong (have you even read what I said in my rundown of each move and the reasons & merits of those moves that I supplied?) it's time you made a case as to what you think should have been done then.

Once again, you have not backed up what you're saying with any kind of coherent argument at all worth noting.

All you seem to be doing, as Cannons said, is just repeating the same stuff over and over again, irrespective of what anyone else is saying to you.

 

[cannons]

I'll be happy to stand corrected if you point out where it was explained that your spud ruckman was better in defence marking the opposition's most dangerous forwards when you had multiple defender options playing in attack.

Spartan, I think you're missing the point, to an extent.

There is a difference between throwing matches and experimenting with positional changes. Nathan Jones, for example, commented prior to the match that Warnock had been playing forward at training and kicking goals. It wasn't as if Dean just said 'shit, we're starting to win, let's throw Matty up forward.' No, he was aware of the players abilities, had considered this as a posibility prior to the match (and probably for a good few weeks) and implemented it accordingly. To Dean's credit, this move was actually quite successful.

Also, the fact we had no players on the bench meant that players were forced to play in positions they otherwise wouldn't. McDonald, for instance, wouldn't have been in the backline if there was an option for him to come off the field. The situation meant that there was a greater need for some improvisation, not only from the coaching staff, but also from the players, and I think most of them managed this situation quite well.

 

[Valve Bounce]

And this has WHAT to do with the Melbourne Football Club exactly? What does Mick Malthouse have to do with us, Valve?

Stop posting endless torrents of irrelevant ad hominem material and present a SERIOUS argument, backed up by real information about US, and actual facts, real quotes, that say we are "tanking".

If you want to start a thread accusing Terry Wallace or Mick Malthouse of tanking, then go ahead and do that. Maybe you might even break the habit of a lifetime and be able to back up what you say about them with some sort of real factually-based argument.

But it has NO relevance here, because it has nothing to do with our coach or our club.

If you had ANY kind of real evidence that was relevant to us, you would've used it by now. You know that and I know that.

Let me put this to you quite clearly: my discussion with you on this subject is over, period!! You can post whatever you like regarding what I post here, but there will be no further response whatsoever from me to whatever you post.

I hope that clarifies why I will be ignoring you.

 

[Spartan]

Spartan, I think you're missing the point, to an extent.

There is a difference between throwing matches and experimenting with positional changes. Nathan Jones, for example, commented prior to the match that Warnock had been playing forward at training and kicking goals. It wasn't as if Dean just said 'shit, we're starting to win, let's throw Matty up forward.' No, he was aware of the players abilities, had considered this as a posibility prior to the match (and probably for a good few weeks) and implemented it accordingly. To Dean's credit, this move was actually quite successful.

Also, the fact we had no players on the bench meant that players were forced to play in positions they otherwise wouldn't. McDonald, for instance, wouldn't have been in the backline if there was an option for him to come off the field. The situation meant that there was a greater need for some improvisation, not only from the coaching staff, but also from the players, and I think most of them managed this situation quite well.

I fear you're the one thats missing the point.

Ok you had injuries and had to play some players out of position.

Fine.

However shouldn't common sense prevail?

A spud ruckman marking the opposition's best small forward?

When you guys hit the front, shouldn't Bailey have flooded back to win the game? Maybe sent his real defenders back to defend the win?

The fact is he didn't want to win. Sure he was experimenting.. but some of the experimentation was bullshit.. and even a junior coach would have made some/better changes to try and win the game.

Since W33 keeps ignoring the question maybe you can help.

Why was Johnson playing on Riewoldt then Brown with the game on the line? Would he not have been better off up forward and sending one of your real defenders back to defence?

 

[cannons]

Let me put this to you quite clearly: my discussion with you on this subject is over, period!! You can post whatever you like regarding what I post here, but there will be no further response whatsoever from me to whatever you post.

I hope that clarifies why I will be ignoring you.

Because you have nothing to back up your stance on this issue?

 

[Valve Bounce]

Because you have nothing to back up your stance on this issue?

Let me say this: from all the facts the fellow had posted, in glorious red and so on, I took it the guy was in full knowledge of Melbourne's tactics and in fact I assumed he was a member of their coaching staff or close to one. I didn't know he was a loyal supporter from out of state and had no connections with the coaches at all. His "facts" are just his opinions, and my posts are my opinions, plus I did refer to many reporters/journalists who are regarded by Melbourne fans as untrustworthy.

You really don't need anything more to back up my opinions, just read the Melnourne papers - they are available online.

I will tell you one thing which is my opinion: Melbourne will not win another two games this year, you can put your house on it. Bailey knows it too, because if he does, he will be fired. Yeah! that is my opinion, and that's what we are discussing here: opinions. That's allowed.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Because you have nothing to back up your stance on this issue?

Exactly right Cannons - methinks the kiddie should drop a couple of E's and calm down....

 

[Spartan]

Exactly right Cannons - methinks the kiddie should drop a couple of E's and calm down....

Got an answer yet?

PJ playing on Riewoldt/Brown instead of up forward and Warnock/Frawley down back.

Just cut and paste your previous post if you have to.

Or perhaps link me to the post.

Whenever you're ready.