Should Dean Bailey be suspended from all AFL activities...

[Wonaeamirri33]

I believe it's the overall ad hominem "tar and feather" approach you have that I disagree with.

Producing articles featuring general comment and reportage about Melbourne FC matches, and articles where former players are asked to comment about issues associated with "tanking", constitute NO evidence, and NO argument.

You have no proper argument at all, you have presented NOTHING that shows that we are "tanking."

All you seem to be doing is hoping that if you say it enough, and produce enough comment from former players etc. about the subject, that mud will stick

Because you HAVE NO EVIDENCE! NO EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND!

If this isn't trolling, I don't know what is!

Show me some EVIDENCE...

 

[Valve Bounce]

I believe it's the overall ad hominem "tar and feather" approach you have that I disagree with.

Producing articles featuring general comment and reportage about Melbourne FC matches, and articles where former players are asked to comment about issues associated with "tanking", constitute NO evidence, and NO argument.

You have no platform to stand on, you have presented NOTHING that shows that we are "tanking."

All you seem to be doing is hoping that if you say it enough, and produce enough comment from former players etc. about the subject, that mud will stick

If this isn't trolling, I don't know what is!

I'll give you this much - Demetriou is on your side. I can only put here in words what is reported. For once, why don't you have a look at the issue from the other point of view?

And having Melbourne supporters sing the Richmond song after the game? I would rather eat my own vomit than sing another club's song that has just beaten Essendon.

It is sad that you feel it necessary to label anyone whose view you disagree with a Troll. But, that is your prerogative.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Geez Valve, you say something as absurd as that our coach should be banned based on unfounded tanking claims, and you don't expect to be called a troll?

Unfounded claims for the purpose of firing at a club's supporters is pretty much in with the definition of a troll around BF.

I love my club and I hate the notion of "tanking". AND I haven't seen ANYTHING that actually shows that we are either.

Moreover, I've presented plenty of information to support my arguments, but you haven't presented anything to back up your claims.

To quote a WCE supporter who has contributed excellently well on this subject:

You are perpetuating the belief based on absolutely no factual evidence at all. Give me proof almost every (any) club has tanked or don't say it at all.

Or even perhaps more succinctly, from a loyal Demon:

This is not the Bay, present some facts or get lost.

And yet ANOTHER highly appropriate quote from another loyal Demons fan, which makes a great point:

To be honest, not many club supporters can sit there and get on their high horse about Melbourne. Do we need to go over the list of players acquired by a large majority of clubs from priority picks?

People forget it used to be even easier to get a priority pick. Remember when it was based on 1 season's win-loss record. We only won 3 games last year as well and 5 the year before that. A lot of people on BigFooty at the moment throwing stones from glass houses.

 

[stickman11]

wonder if he'll have frawley and warnock in the forward line this week

Would be more dangerous than Miller and Newton.

This whole tanking thing is purely made up by the media. Bailey has been playing players all over the field all year.

To bust the myth:

Jones on his twitter thread mentioned Warnock would play up forward

Sylvia was never going to be brought back in after his suspension and nor should he have. (You have to earn your way back just like Robbo.)

Malthouse claim that Jones is the best at winning the ball is crap. All year he has been caught while trying to dispose the ball.

There is nothing strange about playing a ruckman down back, especially when he can't ruck or play forward

Johnson played all but five minutes on Brown

Morton was cutting up Warnock regardless, moving him was a good idea

 

[KickLongTackleHard]

I hope you're not going to blow your load over Scully next year, because that would be extremely hypocritical of you.

Do I want Tom Scully? Yes

Do I want to say Melbourne threw games to get him, when I don't know -100% - what Bailey's motives were? No

 

[Valve Bounce]

Geez Valve, you say something as absurd as that our coach should be banned based on unfounded tanking claims, and you don't expect to be called a troll?

Unfounded claims for the purpose of firing at a club's supporters is pretty much in with the definition of a troll around BF.

I love my club and I hate the notion of "tanking". AND I haven't seen ANYTHING that actually shows that we are either.

Moreover, I've presented plenty of information to support my arguments, but you haven't presented anything to back up your claims.

To quote a WCE supporter who has contributed excellently well on this subject:



Or even perhaps more succinctly, from a loyal Demon:



And yet ANOTHER highly appropriate quote from another loyal Demons fan, which makes a great point:

It seems you are right, and all the media and opposition clubs are just conspiring against you. Including me.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Since you seem to be avoiding what we're saying, in order to continue these wrong-headed claims, I've posted this quote from a previous post of mine on TWO different threads now, so there is no possible way it can be ignored.

The moves were forced on Bailey by the injuries and the fact we had barely 18 fit players on the field...

- McDonald & Jones couldn't be rotated off the ground, so had to be "rested" on the field, in the back or fwd pockets, like the old days before interchange.

- Johnson & Newton were passengers all day, they had to be hidden somewhere. If we had a full team, they would have been off the ground for most of the second half.

- We were playing the corridor anyway, so Newton on the wing wasn't going to cause too much difficulty for us. Johnson at fullback relied on us keeping the ball out of their deep attack, which we did for most of the time... how many goals did Riewoldt get on him? We couldn't play him anywhere he might get his hands on the ball when we were going forward.

- And Whelan could hardly walk, but at least he could stand, which was more than Bennell or Martin could do, so he had to stand in the forward pocket during our 6 rotations for the quarter, which was all we could afford.

- Miller & Bate added strength on the ball - Bate had 23 possessions & 5 tackles, and Miller had 9 possessions after halftime vs 3 in the first half.

- Warnock & Frawley revved up an insipid forward line, because we were getting nothing out of Newton & Miller early in the game. Full-back to full-forward or vice-versa was a common move 20 years ago.

You have not advanced one single piece of evidence to prove anything you've been claiming against us, Valve Bounce.

While I and other Demons supporters have provided AMPLE evidence to show that we are right about these things.

Give it up.

 

[KickLongTackleHard]

It seems you are right, and all the media and opposition clubs are just conspiring against you. Including me.

It is in the media's best interests to beat up stories on such a speculative notion with little prevailing evidence. They sell papers, and don't care for much else.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I wonder now if Valve will STILL try to ignore everything I've said and keep on trolling. I've posted that quote on 4 different threads now, I think...

 

[Valve Bounce]

I wonder now if Valve will STILL try to ignore everything I've said and keep on trolling. I've posted that quote on 4 different threads now, I think...

Just because you posted something here, are the rest of us supposed to believe every word of it? I don't!

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Well then I look forward to hearing your own account of all these moves from your own personal viewpoint, and how each player went in their respective roles, what with you being so knowledgeable about our players and watching every Demons game like you do...

 

[Valve Bounce]

Well then I look forward to hearing your own account of all these moves from your own personal viewpoint, what with you being so knowledgeable about our players and watching every Demons game like you do...

I wasn't there - just reading what was in the lying media. Every single paper, and even on the AFL website. But I now come to realise that everyone else is wrong, and only your version of events is correct.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

You have made claims about our coach which are extreme by most standards, and many of us, including me, have responded with what we understand to be the truth, as people who actually WATCHED the match, and have more knowledge of our players and our club than you do.

If you choose to just automatically gainsay every single item of information that doesn't fit with your apparent prejudice about our club, then that's not our fault.

Incidentally, I'd love to read all the various reports you refer to which claim that our coach was deliberately throwing the match, Valve - in fact, I look forward to it with eager anticipation

 

[Valve Bounce]

You have made claims about our coach which are extreme by most standards, and many of us, including me, have responded with what we understand to be the truth, as people who actually WATCHED the match, and have more knowledge of our players and our club than you do.

If you choose to just automatically gainsay every single item of information that doesn't fit with your apparent prejudice about our club, then that's not our fault.

Incidentally, I'd love to read all the various reports you refer to which claim that our coach was deliberately throwing the match, Valve - in fact, I look forward to it with eager anticipation

Read the papers. Start with yesterday's Australian, then today's, then the Age, then the Herald. Then the AFL website. Then talk to Gary Lyon. The truth hurts, but there it is in black and white. Melbourne tanked, and you just cannot bring yourself to admit it.

 

[festa1234]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/afl-boss-backs-dees-after-loss/2009/08/04/1249350546840.html

well they have the support of the boss

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Read the papers. Start with yesterday's Australian, then today's, then the Age, then the Herald. Then the AFL website. Then talk to Gary Lyon. The truth hurts, but there it is in black and white. Melbourne tanked, and you just cannot bring yourself to admit it.

RUBBISH- if there's anything in any article you're talking about that says Bailey threw the match, show me a quote!

I'm challenging you to show me ANY quote in ANY article ANYWHERE about this match that says that.

A quote, with a link, so it can be verified, because I don't trust you not to just make things up.

Come on... let's see it!

Put up or shut up, Valve.

 

[Valve Bounce]

RUBBISH- if there's anything in any article you're talking about that says Bailey threw the match, show me a quote!

I'm challenging you to show me ANY quote in ANY article ANYWHERE about this match that says that.

A quote, with a link, so it can be verified, because I don't trust you not to just make things up.

Come on... let's see it!

Put up or shut up, Valve.

I'll shut up. I missed the part of your location, and you were so specific about all the moves that I thought you were one of the coaching staff.
I thought you were at the game.

My bad.

 

[KickLongTackleHard]

Valve, read the article festa linked. It has actual quotes from people in the game, unlike the rubbish articles you read and referred to.

And then ask yourself whether Dean Bailey should be banned from all AFL activities.

Rodney Eade, if you don't accept Vlad's POV:
‘‘I don’t think a coach or player goes out to lose a game,’’ Eade said. ‘‘I think we all try and win. You might try different things at different stages to experiment and I’ve done that when we’re not going to make the finals as well, so you do that. Obviously with list management you’re going to get players operated on earlier and things like that.

 

[Valve Bounce]

Valve, read the article festa linked. It has actual quotes from people in the game, unlike the rubbish articles you read and referred to.

And then ask yourself whether Dean Bailey should be banned from all AFL activities.

And here's more, from Vlad himself: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25889379-19742,00.html

I especially love the example from Demetriou about Mick Malthouse tanking.

Of all the people who should not get himself involved in this controversy, Demetriou is one who should show complete impartiality.

I think we have arrived at the stage where many are more than suspicious while loyal supporters and Vlad himself are in denial.

I suggest that the reports in Melbourne's papers are relevant, and they are classified by those in denial as rubbish.

Did anyone here really think that Rodney Eade or any other coach would even suggest anyone is tanking?

There's an article in today's papers about Bailey to experiment some more, rather than win. There are direct quotes. Just use google and look for The Age, The Australian, and Herald Sun.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I especially love the example from Demetriou about Mick Malthouse tanking.

And this has WHAT to do with the Melbourne Football Club exactly? What does Mick Malthouse have to do with us, Valve?

Stop posting endless torrents of irrelevant ad hominem material and present a SERIOUS argument, backed up by real information about US, and actual facts, real quotes, that say we are "tanking".

If you want to start a thread accusing Terry Wallace or Mick Malthouse of tanking, then go ahead and do that. Maybe you might even break the habit of a lifetime and be able to back up what you say about them with some sort of real factually-based argument.

But it has NO relevance here, because it has nothing to do with our coach or our club.

If you had ANY kind of real evidence that was relevant to us, you would've used it by now. You know that and I know that.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Incidentally, Essendon (or the "E's", as they're affectionately known) are quickly becoming the biggest joke of the AFL IMO.

Haven't made finals in over 5 years, with a team that will probably not mount a major challenge for another 4 at the least. Criminal activity such as wife-beating, assault, drugs - yep they've done it all, not to mention extensive salary cap cheating.

What makes Essendon's rorting so bad as well is "Honest Ron" Evans taking it easy on them, because he was a part of it. It's akin to corrupt cops and magistrates. The lowest of the low.

Disgraceful club.

 

[Spartan]

Incidentally, Essendon (or as they're affectionately known, the "E's") are quickly becoming the biggest joke of the AFL IMO.

Haven't made finals in over 5 years, with a list that won't even challenge for finals for another 4 at the least. Criminal activity such as wife-beating, assault, drugs - yep they've done it all, not to mention extensive salary cap cheating.

What makes Essendon's rorting so bad as well is "Honest Ron" Evans taking it easy on them, because he was a part of it. It's akin to corrupt cops and magistrates. The lowest of the low.

Disgraceful club.

Weren't Essendon in the top eight till the start of the last round and currently one game out of the 8, hence currently 'challenging' for a finals spot?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Well yes, the fact the E's are now 9th, as has been the case previously in recent memory, is indeed interesting.

I forgot to mention that, and a fun little sidenote it is too...

 

[Spartan]

RUBBISH- if there's anything in any article you're talking about that says Bailey threw the match, show me a quote!

I'm challenging you to show me ANY quote in ANY article ANYWHERE about this match that says that.

A quote, with a link, so it can be verified, because I don't trust you not to just make things up.

Come on... let's see it!

Put up or shut up, Valve.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25872892-5018851,00.html

Caretaker Richmond coach Jade Rawlings was subdued afterwards, not only by his team's "hiccup" performance but that it took Jordan McMahon's post-siren goal to defeat a side the Tigers believe did what it could, tactically, to lose.

 

[Spartan]

Well yes, the fact they are now 9th, as has been the case a couple of times in recent memory, is indeed interesting...

9th is still challenging for a spot wouldn't you say?