Should Dean Bailey be suspended from all AFL activities...

[thejester]

Melbourne won't win another two games because they are a very, very ordinary football side. I was about to go through all the glaring deficiencies on their list, but then realised it'd just be easier to list the one strength: their backline is solid and shows potential moving forward. That's it. They have exciting kids and players but they almost all have serious flaws that need to be worked on and have yet to jell as a cohesive whole. On top of all that, they've suffered a massive injury list.

As in previous years, the hysteria around tanking remains just that - hysteria, born outside reality and perpetuated by perceptions rather than facts. Reading this thread, you'd think the Dees could be in the eight if they wanted to - a patent nonsense written about a team that every man and his dog picked for the spoon in March.

 

[cannons]

I fear you're the one thats missing the point.

Ok you had injuries and had to play some players out of position.

Fine.

However shouldn't common sense prevail?

A spud ruckman marking the opposition's best small forward?

When you guys hit the front, shouldn't Bailey have flooded back to win the game? Maybe sent his real defenders back to defend the win?

The fact is he didn't want to win. Sure he was experimenting.. but some of the experimentation was bullshit.. and even a junior coach would have made some/better changes to try and win the game.

Since W33 keeps ignoring the question maybe you can help.

Why was Johnson playing on Riewoldt then Brown with the game on the line? Would he not have been better off up forward and sending one of your real defenders back to defence?

There are any number of reasons, none of which I can be totally definitive on as I can't read the mind of Dean.

He may have wanted to see whether or not Johnson had the ability to handle pressure in defence, he may of wanted to see whether Johnson was capable of playing as a KPD, seeing as he has a lot of agility and speed for a man of his size, and vice versa for the Warnock and Frawley. These reasons, in conjunction with the fact the coaching staff were already hard pressed due to a lack of options due to injury, as well as some other things which aren't coming to mind right now, create a valid justification for his decisions.

Experimentation is something which is very common within the AFL, particularly for teams who are looking to build for the future. If not for this kind of tactic, we wouldn't have unearthed Col Garland as one of the league's best young defenders, as he was recruited as a forward initially. This sort of approach can be very beneficial for a club in the long term, and as such, it is something which every team should consider, especially when there isn't too much to gain from the remainder of the season. We must also remember Melbourne has been doing this for a large part of the season, as Colin Sylvia playing at HB in round 2 indicates.

You may say it would have been common sense to move one of the players back to their more usual position, but in a sense, that would really reduce the learning experience associated with implementing the strategy Dean decided on. It would just be like doing something in a way which was half-arsed, and just reverting back to what was easiest as soon as things got difficult. As such, a real insight was gained into the way the players approach playing in different positions and situations, how they responding to that uncertainty, and whether or not they had the ability to play in those positions in the first place.

In sum, I'm sure that even though the game was lost, Dean and the players would have taken a lot away from the match, and learnt some real things of interest which will help the club in the future.

 

[Valve Bounce]

Melbourne won't win another two games because they are a very, very ordinary football side. I was about to go through all the glaring deficiencies on their list, but then realised it'd just be easier to list the one strength: their backline is solid and shows potential moving forward. That's it. They have exciting kids and players but they almost all have serious flaws that need to be worked on and have yet to jell as a cohesive whole. On top of all that, they've suffered a massive injury list.

As in previous years, the hysteria around tanking remains just that - hysteria, born outside reality and perpetuated by perceptions rather than facts. Reading this thread, you'd think the Dees could be in the eight if they wanted to - a patent nonsense written about a team that every man and his dog picked for the spoon in March.

I'll ask you just this : have you ever heard Geelong supporters sing the oppositions song if they beat Geelong?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I'll ask you just this : have you ever heard Geelong supporters sing the oppositions song if they beat Geelong?

Valvey's an avid student of the "rinse and repeat" method as well I'm afraid...

 

[Valve Bounce]

Valvey's an avid student of the "rinse and repeat" method as well I'm afraid...

"No Comment"

 

[thejester]

I'll ask you just this : have you ever heard Geelong supporters sing the oppositions song if they beat Geelong?

Yes.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Melbourne won't win another two games because they are a very, very ordinary football side. I was about to go through all the glaring deficiencies on their list, but then realised it'd just be easier to list the one strength: their backline is solid and shows potential moving forward. That's it. They have exciting kids and players but they almost all have serious flaws that need to be worked on and have yet to jell as a cohesive whole. On top of all that, they've suffered a massive injury list.

As in previous years, the hysteria around tanking remains just that - hysteria, born outside reality and perpetuated by perceptions rather than facts. Reading this thread, you'd think the Dees could be in the eight if they wanted to - a patent nonsense written about a team that every man and his dog picked for the spoon in March.

Well yeah, that sums it up pretty well Jester (apart from the "serious flaw" comment, I can't see how you could make that case about many of our young players. Think you'd be more referring to guys like Brad Miller and Michael Newton there).

Of course, without the injuries, we'd have achieved substantially better results this year, but you've pretty much factored that in yourself as it is.

Well said...

"No Comment"

The kiddie even takes the trouble to post 'no comment' in response! Now that's funny

 

[Valve Bounce]

Yes.

Really!! when?

 

[thejester]

Really!! when?

After a loss.

 

[Valve Bounce]

After a loss.

As I asked: when, and which team's song did you hear them sing?

 

[Valve Bounce]

The kiddie even takes the trouble to post 'no comment' in response! Now that's funny

I have to respond: you know something? that's the nicest name anyone has called me for many, many years. I only wish it were true.

 

[INSANE]

he should be suspended, because he looks like the australian idol runner up from last year

 

[sledbomber]

I will tell you one thing which is my opinion: Melbourne will not win another two games this year, you can put your house on it. Bailey knows it too, because if he does, he will be fired. Yeah! that is my opinion, and that's what we are discussing here: opinions. That's allowed.

Wouldn't it just be logic that would say we wouldn't win more than 2 games for the rest of the season. We have won 3 of 18 for the season (approx 17%). If we were too win 2 of our next 4 that is 50%. Our team hasn't been good enough for 18 games of the season so why would the last 4 be any different.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I have to respond: you know something? that's the nicest name anyone has called me for many, many years. I only wish it were true.

Incidentally Valve, that's your best response yet I think! If this improvement becomes permanent, and you don't slip back into your trollish ways again, I might even give you a gold star

 

[Spartan]

Valvey's an avid student of the "rinse and repeat" method as well I'm afraid...

Well yeah, that sums it up pretty well Jester. Except to say that without the injuries, we'd be a better team, of course, but you've pretty much factored that in yourself as it is.

Well said...

 

[Spartan]

There are any number of reasons, none of which I can be totally definitive on as I can't read the mind of Dean.

He may have wanted to see whether or not Johnson had the ability to handle pressure in defence, he may of wanted to see whether Johnson was capable of playing as a KPD, seeing as he has a lot of agility and speed for a man of his size, and vice versa for the Warnock and Frawley. These reasons, in conjunction with the fact the coaching staff were already hard pressed due to a lack of options due to injury, as well as some other things which aren't coming to mind right now, create a valid justification for his decisions.

Experimentation is something which is very common within the AFL, particularly for teams who are looking to build for the future. If not for this kind of tactic, we wouldn't have unearthed Col Garland as one of the league's best young defenders, as he was recruited as a forward initially. This sort of approach can be very beneficial for a club in the long term, and as such, it is something which every team should consider, especially when there isn't too much to gain from the remainder of the season. We must also remember Melbourne has been doing this for a large part of the season, as Colin Sylvia playing at HB in round 2 indicates.

You may say it would have been common sense to move one of the players back to their more usual position, but in a sense, that would really reduce the learning experience associated with implementing the strategy Dean decided on. It would just be like doing something in a way which was half-arsed, and just reverting back to what was easiest as soon as things got difficult. As such, a real insight was gained into the way the players approach playing in different positions and situations, how they responding to that uncertainty, and whether or not they had the ability to play in those positions in the first place.

In sum, I'm sure that even though the game was lost, Dean and the players would have taken a lot away from the match, and learnt some real things of interest which will help the club in the future.

Credit where credit is due and you raised a good point about half arsed experimentation.

However.

To think that Paul Johnson could play on Nathan Brown is plain silly. When would you ever want a ruckman/KPP to develop into a player that plays on the opposition small forward?

Experimentation is one thing, putting players in situations where they are obviously not suited and will never be suited nor required is another thing.

We haven't even touched on the issues like starting Frawley/Warnock on the bench, benching Davey when he was on fire, etc.

 

[thejester]

As I asked: when, and which team's song did you hear them sing?

Pretty sure it was in the hellish depths of Colac after the loss to the Pies last year. Of course, we were both wasted, so it's hard for me to elaborate on the circumstances beyond that.

But out of interest: did you see the footage of Brendan Fevola singing the Pies song that was doing the rounds at the start of the year? Proof Carlton are tanking?

 

[Demonheart]

Credit where credit is due and you raised a good point about half arsed experimentation.

However.

To think that Paul Johnson could play on Nathan Brown is plain silly. When would you ever want a ruckman/KPP to develop into a player that plays on the opposition small forward?

Experimentation is one thing, putting players in situations where they are obviously not suited and will never be suited nor required is another thing.

We haven't even touched on the issues like starting Frawley/Warnock on the bench, benching Davey when he was on fire, etc.

Plain silly? With all these moves you refer to as being 'plain silly' Melbourne were in front when the final siren went. If McMahon had of missed Bailey would have been labelled a genius, not a tanker.

 

[Spartan]

Plain silly? With all these moves you refer to as being 'plain silly' Melbourne were in front when the final siren went. If McMahon had of missed Bailey would have been labelled a genius, not a tanker.

That line of thought is flawed on so many levels.

Have you thought that if Bailey had actually coached properly you would have been 4 goals up instead of 2 points up at the final siren?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Have you thought that if West Coast Eagles had gone in against Essendon at half-strength, and lost three players to injury during the match, they wouldn't have had a chance in hell of winning that one...

I mean, I know you think we're an incredibly good team right now Spartan, and that we should have won many more games this year.

After all, this is very clear in the comments you've made about us on so many threads around BF!

(I'm being sarcastic folks )

But even a team as good as you suggest we are, (and again, thank you for the inherent compliment and glowing assessment of our team's ability) surely might have found the going a bit tough in that situation, yes?

 

[Demonheart]

That line of thought is flawed on so many levels.

Have you thought that if Bailey had actually coached properly you would have been 4 goals up instead of 2 points up at the final siren?

You have absolutely no evidence at all to prove that statement, merely guesswork.