Toump Ass
The Big Deal
- Jun 14, 2015
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Or fold, who cares.
Should the Dees and the Pies do a hard reset like the Tigers?
- Thread starter Tonythetiger
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Kobe Gryant
'07, '09, '11, '22
It would appear VDubs has some competition.
Although Dubsy is naturally pessimistic, I don't think even he has said burn it all down and start again. He, like most of us are aware we've been shedding ourselves of veterans or shuffling them into peripheral roles quite aggressively. There's 3 key figures left that are 30 or older. It was 9 or 10 around the 2020-2022 time.
Pies won a flag in 2023, and beat the 2024 premiers both times they played them in 2024.
But we should trade every player we have with trade value, to guarantee bottom 4 finishes for the next 5 years?
But we should trade every player we have with trade value, to guarantee bottom 4 finishes for the next 5 years?
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- Jul 3, 2001
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Regardless of how this year goes, we certainly need to think about how we get some younger talent in the door to assist N Daicos at our next flag window
No both teams need to hold on for dear life until atleast Tassie enters the comp.
- Aug 17, 2006
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Given the retirements and delistings from the squad, the Cats will go into 2025 with very little VFL depth, relying heavily on Toby Conway to get over his injury issues and praying there's no significant injuries to our key forwards (and that Shannon Neale continues to develop well).
The successful (and surprising for many) performance in 2024 was underpinned by getting great value from the past five or so draft classes (if we throw in Bruhn and O.Henry), including getting mature agers like Close, Dempsey, Humphries and Mannagh in the later stages of the draft or the rookie draft. But the Smith trade meant we weren't a big player in the draft this year and the fact that we've picked up Humphries, Mannagh, Dempsey etc. from outside the traditional U18 comps means that there is a fairly big gap on our list currently developing with players born after 2003.
To my mind, for Geelong's rejuvenation on the run process to continue to work, you/we need to pick up about three quality players from each draft class on average (i.e. about 15 players over five years), as well as hitting on your free agency targets, locking in the players you need to re-sign and everything else. When you include Bruhn and Henry, I think we've largely managed that between 2019-23 (albeit with a few guys who are now closer to 30 than they are to 20). Will we continue to hit that target over the 2020-24, 2021-25 periods and beyond? I hope so, but it's a big ask.
I was absolutely against our 2025 first rounder being considered as an option Smith trade precisely because I wouldn't be surprised at all if it ends up being well inside the top 10. It just feels to me like we need a hell of a lot to go right this year to get to the finals again and make it past the first week.
But like you could see it wasn't an old team we sent out for finals, right? Probably the most 25 and unders we'd had in a final since 2009.
So tear it all down doesn't make sense. We've been adding a few new young players each year and retiring a few old ones.
- Aug 8, 2009
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Think the Pies have gone on record suggesting they won't be going down this path, but instead chasing the continual top up.
- Aug 17, 2006
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I didn't say it was an old team; I said that we now have little-to-zero depth in the event of injuries in a number of key areas and that, as a by-product of some of our recent moves during trade period and that, due to the (understandable and correct) call to use some late draft and rookie picks in recent years to select mature age players, we have seen practically nothing from our players who've been born since 1/1/2004. Jhye Clark showed some glimpses last year (though he played VFL exclusively from mid-July), Connor O'Sullivan and Ted Clohesy have made some very fleeting cameos and that's it.
As far as inserting talent from the under 18 crops from 2022-24 (i.e. the group on our list born since 1/1/04), at this stage it looks like we're putting a hell of a lot on the shoulders of Clark and O'Sullivan to carry that group (a couple of diamonds in the rough from 2024 would be nice too, we didn't have a selection in the first two rounds).
So I'm not particularly optimistic about our prospects in 2025, given the lack of proven depth on the list and I'm also concerned that we may have set ourselves up to have a hole in our list of players in the 2004-2006 group as well attempt to rejuvenate the list. I guess we'll see in due course.
Little-to-zero depth in the event of injuries, compared to which sides? It only makes sense if you can objectively list the sides that have more depth and less reason to tear it all down and fully commit to a fresh rebuild. More so than Melbourne, Richmond and Collingwood - to keep it roughly on topic with this thread? How does our depth compare to Carlton, Brisbane, Port, Freo, Sydney, Hawthorn et al? Can you explain how it's worse?
To me Geelong's prelim team didn't look markedly different to the other contenders when you look at age profile. And they still thumped one top 4 team, while getting close to knocking off the premiers. Your comment actually makes a lot more sense applied to say the 2020 or 2021 era teams, and even they then went on to get a premiership. So continuing to refresh the list each year while not setting a ceiling on what the team aims for, I think it's a solid enough strategy. Once our 3 remaining top tier veterans are gone, a reassessment will be due. But who knows how much improvement could come from the others before then, or what big fish could potentially be landed.
Really ? List your depth, so I can compare it to Melbourne's.
PerfectFooty
Perfect Cell
I think that we're somewhat injecting some younger talent into the side on the go, i don't know how successful it will be and when we will need a more major influx of new talent.
But i also have seen us go a firmly youth orientated mindset in one rebuild that set the club back a little bit and left fractures when it collapsed and required another rebuild that was done completely wrong and guided incorrectly, requiring yet another rebuild from the last two until finally one was done right and stuck properly. 10/10 would recommend not doing that again
Time tells with these things and it's easier to say in hindsight five years from now if what we (and Collingwood) did or didn't do was the right call or wrong call
But i also have seen us go a firmly youth orientated mindset in one rebuild that set the club back a little bit and left fractures when it collapsed and required another rebuild that was done completely wrong and guided incorrectly, requiring yet another rebuild from the last two until finally one was done right and stuck properly. 10/10 would recommend not doing that again
Time tells with these things and it's easier to say in hindsight five years from now if what we (and Collingwood) did or didn't do was the right call or wrong call
- Aug 17, 2006
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Compared to Geelong in 2024. We had a terrific VFL side last year; this year I doubt we'll be above the bottom third of the ladder.
We had Clark, de Koning, Hawkins, C.Guthrie. Parfitt, Rohan, O'Sullivan, Jeka and Hardie (among others) lining up for our last VFL final last year. We'll have nothing approaching that combination of experience and talent lining up in the VFL in 2025.
Where's Guthrie going? Hawkins was poor in that final. Rohan had maybe one good game in the VFL. Otherwise I agree that the VFL side might not be top 4, but I don't see that sending the AFL team plummeting down the ladder. Competition for spots is tough. Players who missed out in that prelim who need to be squeezed in are SDK, Conway and Smith. O'Connor used to be a regular until his injury issues. They'll be trying to push Clark and O'Sullivan to getting more games.
The competition for spots 2024-2025 compared to 2020-2022 (for example) is much higher. So again, I don't think the "tear it down and start it again" scorched Earth rebuild makes sense. Like I said, once our 3 star veterans retire it could be a different story.
Isn't that the Carlton motto?
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