sherb
Hall of Famer
And, right on cue, here is KE to keep spewing out the hate.....
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So the record is set straight re Packer's Yacht and Katich/Clarke
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Yep this, he should still be in the side really, was a gun.
If Michael Clarke wanted to miss a team function so he could spend the night with his wife and kids you'd call him a softc*ck.
It sounds like it was a last minute decision by Hussey to pull out - something that may not have been foreseen.
Look, I would prefer Hussey to Clarke nine times out of ten, but I think in both of the instances highlighted here, he was in the wrong.
It was Hussey's last test and regardless of when the boat was booked, as soon as he pulled out because kids were not allowed, Clarke should have pulled out. I've played footy for years and never did I hold it against any of my teammates (not once), for not wanting a drink. It's Clarkes demeanour and the way he carries himself that rubs me the wrong way. It is not conducive in building a good team environment and sure enough, it's been shown that the team is fractured.
courtjester
Cancelled
What a load of bullshit. There was a pre-arranged function for players on a yacht. Hussey doesn't want to go because he wants to be with his family and kids can't go on the yacht. Here are the two options:
- Hussey goes on the yacht with team mates, has his farewell stuff, and then spends the rest of his life with his family.
- Hussey doesn't go on the yacht, and the team all go out for dinner with him the next night.
Why the **** is this an issue?
And Katich? Staggered there are still people who bag Clarke out over this. So many people have double standards that are based on the fact that Clarke is a perceived "metro" while Katich is a perceived "hard man".
- Hussey goes on the yacht with team mates, has his farewell stuff, and then spends the rest of his life with his family.
- Hussey doesn't go on the yacht, and the team all go out for dinner with him the next night.
Why the **** is this an issue?
And Katich? Staggered there are still people who bag Clarke out over this. So many people have double standards that are based on the fact that Clarke is a perceived "metro" while Katich is a perceived "hard man".
It really seems like Clarke is the unfortunate recipient of 'pretty boy' status with the baby-face and blonde tips.
By the sounds of most accounts it sounds like he doesn't get taken as serious as he would like and thus has problems with communications. I think some of the more tough guys don't like to be told what to do by someone like Clarke.
Personally, I think Katich's reaction was a bit juvenile but I think most of us (cricketers) know that after a day in the sun (let alone a whole test) and some sherbets makes the brain not fire perfectly.
By the sounds of most accounts it sounds like he doesn't get taken as serious as he would like and thus has problems with communications. I think some of the more tough guys don't like to be told what to do by someone like Clarke.
Personally, I think Katich's reaction was a bit juvenile but I think most of us (cricketers) know that after a day in the sun (let alone a whole test) and some sherbets makes the brain not fire perfectly.
Dan Cooper
Victory Salute
From an article in the Herald Sun on Ricky Ponting's new book "At the Close of Play":
Michael Clarke's relationship with Lara Bingle put him at odds with his teammates and could have cost him the Australian captaincy according to Ricky Ponting in his new book.
"It never worried me if a bloke didn't want a drink in the dressing room, but I did wonder about blokes who didn't see the value in sticking around for a chat and a laugh and a post-mortem of the day's play. Pup hardly bought into this for a couple of years and the team noticed".
Ponting doesn't mention Lara Bingle by name in the book, but it's clear he believes Clarke lost his way during his relationship with her.
Ponting also puts his on the infamous dust-up between Clarke and opener Simon Katich in the change rooms after the 2009 Sydney Test, when Clarke wanted to leave early with Bingle.
Ponting says the outburst, where Katich is believed to have grabbed Clarke by the throat, "was indicative of an on-going frustration a number of the senior players, including me, were having with our new vice captain."
A more detailed extract: http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/679155.html?CMP=chrome
aussiecricket
Rookie
Full extract (not behind the paywall): http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...play/story-e6frfkp9-1226738803072#mm-breached
Confirms what I've long thought - that Michael Clarke is only concerned about what's best for Michael Clarke.
Looking forward to the rest of the book.
Confirms what I've long thought - that Michael Clarke is only concerned about what's best for Michael Clarke.
Looking forward to the rest of the book.
The ****?
Sorry, even after that I'm pro-Clarke here. Clarke hadn't organised this thing for just himself, it was for the ENTIRE TEAM. Ponting paints this out as him wanting to get away from the team environment, but it was the complete opposite, he'd organised something special for the team and his attempt at doing this was completely ignored.
I don't doubt that the players were frustrated at certain aspects of Clarke's lifestyle, and he probably hasn't always bought into the team culture enough, especially throughout his relationship with Bingle, but the fact is that on this occasion he was trying to do something very team oriented and his teammates essentially told him to **** off. That's ****ing rubbish.
aussiecricket
Rookie
Take the boat incident out, I thought it was pretty damning of Clarke as a team mate and VC.
Over the next couple of years, my view changed. Pup remained a good trainer and we could all see that he loved playing for Australia and was determined to do well. But away from cricket, he moved in a different world to the rest of us.
It never worried me if a bloke didn't want a drink in the dressing room, but I did wonder about blokes who didn't see the value in sticking around for a chat and a laugh and a post-mortem on the day's play.
This was the time when we could revel in our success, pick up the blokes who were struggling, and acknowledge the guys who were at the peak of their powers. Pup hardly bought into this tradition for a couple of years and the team noticed.
At times, he reminded me of a teammate from earlier in my career, who'd be chirpy and bubbly if he was going well, but appear a bit grim if things weren't working for him. The best team-mates are the ones who can keep their moods in check for the sake of the group.
It's hard to give an opinion on clarke on this board without quickly being labeled a fanboy or a hater but it's hard not to take a dim view of him as a leader when you have the likes of ponting and hussey ever so politely trying to say the bloke can be selfish.
Random quotes from random people i don't put much stock in but we are talking two highly respected and highly successful test cricketers, two men who also know the real clarke better than any of us.
You could of course argue clarke is the perfect man to lead this current lot though, there are very few hussey/ponting types in this new generation, most of them seem arrogant and self righteous but without clarke's on field record to back it up.
Hopefully the change in coach and clarke stepping down as a selector will be enough to end the petty crap that has infested our team in recent years, but i do agree with those who point out it isn't just clarke who needs to pull his head in.
Random quotes from random people i don't put much stock in but we are talking two highly respected and highly successful test cricketers, two men who also know the real clarke better than any of us.
You could of course argue clarke is the perfect man to lead this current lot though, there are very few hussey/ponting types in this new generation, most of them seem arrogant and self righteous but without clarke's on field record to back it up.
Hopefully the change in coach and clarke stepping down as a selector will be enough to end the petty crap that has infested our team in recent years, but i do agree with those who point out it isn't just clarke who needs to pull his head in.
courtjester
Cancelled
I still find this incident funny. And people's responses to it. Clarke had every ****ing right to want to leave, and asking for the team song to be sung is hardly a Nazi war crime. All this bullshit that they bang on about: senior players, leaders etc. Here's Katich, a "senior" guy, grabbing someone by the throat because he wants to leave early-ish. And here's Ponting, saying that it was a manifestation of some frustration amongst senior guys. Well, FFS, sit down with Clarke and talk about it if it frustrates you. Ponting's the captain. Not everyone in life has to be exactly the same to fit in. Katich is a tosser.
Father Jack
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If you are the VC then you really shouldn't be the one who can't get away from the team quick enough.
Yet both of these incidences were examples of him organising group activities for the team.
Punter and Hussey's interpretation of these events are interesting though. They are obviously very different to Clarke in how they see their roles in a team.
It sounds like it's down to personality types as much as anything.
It sounds like it's down to personality types as much as anything.
That article paints pretty much everyone in a negative light. Clarke comes across as a self-absorbed individual who took being made captain to give a stuff about the team culture. Katich comes across as unreasonable and he clearly overreacted to massive proportions. Ponting also comes across as being a bit 'if you don't like what the rest of us like, you're not a real team player'.
The_Reaper
Hall of Famer
I'd wpuld prefer to say that Clarke is growing into the role.
I thought Ponting's point was more that you didn't have to be like everyone else, but being introverted and more inward looking wasn't a positive quality for a Captain to have.
The_Reaper
Hall of Famer
And can lead to divided teams. Part of the reason in my mind why Tendulkar was a poor Captain.
Don Bradman was in a similar mould and many of his teamates hated him. But he stayed as Captain because nobody cares about these issues when a team is winning
There's actually a body of research which says that introverts are better leaders than extroverts.
courtjester
Cancelled
From memory it was after 11pm when Clarke wanted to leave. 5 hours after play would've finished. I just don't think anyone would think that it's unreasonable to have the song sung within 5 hours of a victory so players could leave if they want/need to.
Bradman wasn't "hated". Fingleton and O'Reilly had issues with Bradman that had a lot more to do with religion rather than personality. And Bradman was the same age/older than them, which makes winning over players more difficult as captain.
Ask the players who played under Bradman after WW2 what they thought of him...they loved him. Hassett, Lindwall, Loxton, Brown, Harvey, Morris, Johnson, Ring etc speak incredibly highly of him as a man and a captain. Miller and Bradman clashed at times, but that was largely to do with a difference of opinion on the way cricket should be played.
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as i keep saying it's always the same name popping up in these little run ins. When there is one consistent name then that is a 99% sure fire indication of where the problem lies. If someone can't see that will you won't convince them otherwise. And that is just what is in the press. Go ask around Sydney grade cricket circles and MJ Clarke will be getting bum raps from plenty of people there as well.
Great batsmen, great tactician, self absorbed bloke.
Great batsmen, great tactician, self absorbed bloke.
Dan Cooper
Victory Salute
I think this point from Ponting was pertinent:
"It never worried me if a bloke didn't want a drink in the dressing room, but I did wonder about blokes who didn't see the value in sticking around for a chat and a laugh and a post-mortem of the day's play. Pup hardly bought into this for a couple of years and the team noticed".
"It never worried me if a bloke didn't want a drink in the dressing room, but I did wonder about blokes who didn't see the value in sticking around for a chat and a laugh and a post-mortem of the day's play. Pup hardly bought into this for a couple of years and the team noticed".
It's just contrasting styles.
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