Prediction St.Kilda Best 22

[stfan]

FB: Webster, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Sinclair, Schoenmaker, Nas
C: Wood, Macrae, Wilson
HF: Garcia, King, Hill
FF: Higgins, Sharman, Owens
Foll: Marshall, Steele, Phillipou
Int: Travaglia, Clark, Hammer, Windy
Sub: Carroll/Jones/Byrnes

• Wood playing his important def winger role
• Wilson the attacking winger
• Henry in when fit, onto HF with mid rotations
• Butler made to earn spot
• All too easy this

I can't wait for the practice games.

75/80% of the team picks itself. But with the extra depth there is going to be a real battle going on for a number of slots.

Some of Clark, Garcia, Carroll, Jones, Dow will make the starting 22 to be part of our midfield rotation, but not all. Clark at this stage should be a front runner. Macrae, Steele and Phillipou are locks. And maybe even Windy's spot may be under pressure, if the form of others is good.


Trav the club will be keen to debut. So Byrnes may be squeezed out.


Butler is our best pressure forward, so Lyon will probably want him in if his form is ok. Though they could go with the extra mid playing HF/Mid rotation.

Schoenmaker looks like the front runner to be our the third of our three talls in the backline. Effectively the Battle replacement, though the coaches will probably tweak how the three talls work together as Schoenmaker will be the one of those three that they will try and get the ball out through....along with Nas and Sincs.

Hammer you would think will be in the 22, as he can be a tall down forward, or down back.

 

[beside the seaside]

If Butler is hunting and tackling a la 2020 & 2023, he walks into the best 22.

In my opinion he's a lock.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

If Butler is hunting and tackling a la 2020 & 2023, he walks into the best 22.

So, in other words, made to earn his spot. 2020 Butler would be very nice

 

[SteeleSaints]

I can't wait for the practice games.

75/80% of the team picks itself. But with the extra depth there is going to be a real battle going on for a number of slots.

Some of Clark, Garcia, Carroll, Jones, Dow will make the starting 22 to be part of our midfield rotation, but not all. Clark at this stage should be a front runner. Macrae, Steele and Phillipou are locks. And maybe even Windy's spot may be under pressure, if the form of others is good.

Trav the club will be keen to debut. So Byrnes may be squeezed out.

Butler is our best pressure forward, so Lyon will probably want him in if his form is ok. Though they could go with the extra mid playing HF/Mid rotation.

Schoenmaker looks like the front runner to be our the third of our three talls in the backline. Effectively the Battle replacement, though the coaches will probably tweak how the three talls work together as Schoenmaker will be the one of those three that they will try and get the ball out through....along with Nas and Sincs.

Hammer you would think will be in the 22, as he can be a tall down forward, or down back.

% and most importantly to competition for spots through our midfield. The inclusion of Macrae will be huge and the competition for spots from Phillipou, Windhager, Wilson, Garcia, Jones, Dow, Clark, Carroll, Byrnes and Hall will be enthralling. We dont have the ready made elite young draftee to add through the middle, but the club have done a good job of suring up the positional depth. If Henry was training he would be listed in everyone first 22, but he has missed that much footy he seems to get over looked.

If RTB wants to play Caminiti forward, then Shoenmaker looks like he will get the opportunity to step into a tall defender role. If Im honest I would love to see Keeler/Marshall start forward and Caminiti fill the CHB role, but that may not occur.

Brad Hill has been a terrific player for the club filling the hole as a 5th midfielder once the ball is bounced. IF our midfield can become more competitive I would hope he would be used more closer to goals and start hitting the score board a lot more. Otherwise I can see him being over taken by other players like Henry and Wilson as the high half forward. I think there would still be a position on the wing for Bradley, as RTB loves his ability to cover so much ground.

Those most at risk of losing their position in the side for me are Liam Stocker and Hunter Clark. Both struggle for AFL elite fitness, Stocker is one who simply needs to lose some bulk and get more attacking run in his game. Clark is not a fan of the gym and his inability to play enough game time will hurt him with the number of players we will have vying for the same position next year.

I would also love to see Hall, Said and Collard put some pressure on Higgins & Butler in their small forward roles. I wouldnt expect either to be over looked, but we need others ready to play if either are injured.

If we can maintain a mostly fit list next year, then for the first time in years Sandringham should have some high quality players running around.

 

[The Punter]

So, in other words, made to earn his spot. 2020 Butler would be very nice

I think there is a touch of unfairness about Butler's spot in the side.

2020: AA squad (deserved)
2021: credits from 2020
2022: gets hurt early, comes good in the last few weeks of the season
2023: excellent
2024: late starter due to injury, never hits heights

I think if he underperforms he will be in trouble with Garcia and Collard as similar types (can pressure at a high level), but there is no reason IMO to think with a proper pre-season he will perform poorly in 2025.

 

[Sully111]

FB: Webster, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Sinclair, Schoenmaker, Nas
C: Wood, Macrae, Wilson
HF: Garcia, King, Hill
FF: Higgins, Sharman, Owens
Foll: Marshall, Steele, Phillipou
Int: Travaglia, Clark, Hammer, Windy
Sub: Carroll/Jones/Byrnes

• Wood playing his important def winger role
• Wilson the attacking winger
• Henry in when fit, onto HF with mid rotations
• Butler made to earn spot
• All too easy this

I like it

Agree on Butler.

 

[Sully111]

In my opinion he's a lock.

Something has to give.

 

[akaifu]

FB: Webster, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Sinclair, Schoenmaker, Nas
C: Wood, Macrae, Wilson
HF: Garcia, King, Hill
FF: Higgins, Sharman, Owens
Foll: Marshall, Steele, Phillipou
Int: Travaglia, Clark, Hammer, Windy
Sub: Carroll/Jones/Byrnes

• Wood playing his important def winger role
• Wilson the attacking winger
• Henry in when fit, onto HF with mid rotations
• Butler made to earn spot
• All too easy this

We’d find it hard to lock the ball in our F50 with that forward line imo

Need Butler’s manic pressure. I think Garcia not only isn’t as good as Butler at the role, but he would be wasted there. He has massive upside in the midfield

Agree with the rest though, looks good

 

[Dard Ball Get]

We’d find it hard to lock the ball in our F50 with that forward line imo

Need Butler’s manic pressure. I think Garcia not only isn’t as good as Butler at the role, but he would be wasted there. He has massive upside in the midfield

Agree with the rest though, looks good

Tend to agree on both counts. I do think Butler will be in for that reason alone, more I want to see him back to his best.
Also think Hugo will go “bang” getting some more midfield minutes this coming season. He and Wilson look to be pushing each other to another level.

 

[SG34]

If Butler is hunting and tackling a la 2020 & 2023, he walks into the best 22.

From my POV, the Butler of 2020 and the Butler if 2023 were different players entirely.

2020
A shark
Lighting pincer-like reflexes
Cheetah-like spring
Stalking the back of packs
Penetrating kick

2023
Chasing and second to the ball
Harassing, or posturing to harass
Collecting more than hunting
More like Kent
Weak kick
So called ‘defensive forward’

I really thought he was cooked to be honest. In that final, he couldn’t kick over a tin can.

But of course, I love his endeavour and he still has sharp hands - if he gets it!

Edit; I will add, 2024 he didn’t slide, he presented well. (I also thought in 2023, his degenerative ankle condition had him cooked)

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think there is a touch of unfairness about Butler's spot in the side.

2020: AA squad (deserved)
2021: credits from 2020
2022: gets hurt early, comes good in the last few weeks of the season
2023: excellent
2024: late starter due to injury, never hits heights

I think if he underperforms he will be in trouble with Garcia and Collard as similar types (can pressure at a high level), but there is no reason IMO to think with a proper pre-season he will perform poorly in 2025.

I think it'll be a while before Collard is pushing anyone out, but Garcia for sure.

 

[Tyrian Lonestar]

From my POV, the Butler of 2020 and the Butler if 2023 were different players entirely.

2020
A shark
Lighting pincer-like reflexes
Cheetah-like spring
Stalking the back of packs
Penetrating kick

2023
Chasing and second to the ball
Harassing, or posturing to harass
Collecting more than hunting
More like Kent
Weak kick
So called ‘defensive forward’

I really thought he was cooked to be honest. In that final, he couldn’t kick over a tin can.

But of course, I love his endeavour and he still has sharp hands - if he gets it!

Edit; I will add, 2024 he didn’t slide, he presented well. (I also thought in 2023, his degenerative ankle condition had him cooked)

Given the amount of pressure for every spot on the ground I can see players like Butler getting back to his best.
Last 4 years of draft / trading has absolutely changed how hard everyone has to work to get a game.

Nothing drives overall team improvement like competition for spots imo.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Given the amount of pressure for every spot on the ground I can see players like Butler getting back to his best.
Last 4 years of draft / trading has absolutely changed how hard everyone has to work to get a game.

Nothing drives overall team improvement like competition for spots imo.

There's also the training aspect, its one thing to have old timers like Wood pushing the standards, but when its also nooby's like Wilson and Garcia, it puts pressure on the whole list.
No doubt players like Hunter, sit there drinking their late' thinking, hmmm , those guys are all doing extra weights...maybe i should do some extra weights.... maybe tomorrow.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Having gone back and analysed the Saints best 22 pre season threads for the past 15 seasons I can confidently say you are all wrong.

 

[SG34]

We can do a selection competition. You pick 22 players. And you get one point every time they are selected for the home and away. Winner takes all. Anyone dare? Prize ! I can think of one . Closing date for applications is Dec 31st. ??

 

[SG34]

I just listened to this, , and who are we to disagree.

Our forward line sucks hairy tennis balls (on a matting pitch that’s water logged) bottom four .. atrocious.

Especially given our excellent defence and arc-to-arc movement.

I think it is fair to say that so many players have flatlined or failed.

I know, I know, it’s the season to be optimistic but it is fair to say, Owens, King and even Sharman have not blossomed. Butler can’t do much and Higgins can scrap it with the best of em, but he is still a battler. Membrey was horrid and only got good when we were done for at seasons end. Pou didnt do much, it is just that he did some nice things when he came back , to keep us watering the plant of hope. Sharman has nice reach and hands but what about ground and body level? Owens good around the shoulder height ball and a bit of flashy but .. Wood was Ok before injury. Our only surprise up forward was Marshall kicking a few!! Boy I hope they pull something out of the hat!! After hearing this I ask myself, no matter how we improve in our good areas, if that f50 is Death Valley, them wagons aren’t gonna get California gold!!

 

[ScrappyDo]

I just listened to this, , and who are we to disagree.

Our forward line sucks hairy tennis balls (on a matting pitch that’s water logged) bottom four .. atrocious.

Especially given our excellent defence and arc-to-arc movement.

I think it is fair to say that so many players have flatlined or failed.

I know, I know, it’s the season to be optimistic but it is fair to say, Owens, King and even Sharman have not blossomed. Butler can’t do much and Higgins can scrap it with the best of em, but he is still a battler. Membrey was horrid and only got good when we were done for at seasons end. Pou didnt do much, it is just that he did some nice things when he came back , to keep us watering the plant of hope. Sharman has nice reach and hands but what about ground and body level? Owens good around the shoulder height ball and a bit of flashy but .. Wood was Ok before injury. Our only surprise up forward was Marshall kicking a few!! Boy I hope they pull something out of the hat!! After hearing this I ask myself, no matter how we improve in our good areas, if that f50 is Death Valley, them wagons aren’t gonna get California gold!!

It probably helps to remember the team is still a WIP. Players have shown capabilities but not consistency and drawing that out is a RTB speciality but still requires time. Like any jigsaw it starts slow, but the last pieces fall into place quickly.

 

[SG34]

It probably helps to remember the team is still a WIP. Players have shown capabilities but not consistency and drawing that out is a RTB speciality but still requires time. Like any jigsaw it starts slow, but the last pieces fall into place quickly.

I like your jigsaw analogy. Look, I guess I could rationalize myself by telling myself something else they mentioned in this chat thing. And that being MacCrae is a like-for-like ‘Insta-Crouch’. And I am dead cert that the loss of Crouch hurt us big time.

 

[jwint43]

I must say Clark v Windhager is a very interesting debate. Obviously Clark is 4 years older, but still only 25 with plenty of footy left. If fit I would prefer Clark for his point of difference/freakish inside work at the moment. Windy does have the flexibility to go to a HBF if needed though, but will face stiff competition from Travaglia/Sinclair/Arie/Byrnes/Wilson/Wood as runners from the wing or half back.

I want to see more of the Windy against Collingwood where he turned into Lenny winning clearance after clearance on his own. He needs to take that next step now.

View attachment 2187314View attachment 2187315

Clark is best 22, he is a massive reason for our midfield improvement in the back half of the year. We can fit both Windy and Clark in IMO

 

[Veer Right]

From training reports on here to media bits and pieces this is how i am imagining the round one team at present.

Webster Howard Wilkie
NWM Schoenmaker Sinclair
Wilson Steele Hill
Garcia King Sharman
Higgins Marshall Owens
Boyd Macrae Phillipou

Wood Travaglia Windhager Clark

Hastie

 

[Kildonan]

We can do a selection competition. You pick 22 players. And you get one point every time they are selected for the home and away. Winner takes all. Anyone dare? Prize ! I can think of one . Closing date for applications is Dec 31st. ??

If you are going to run a comp like that, you need to give posters a fair bit more time
Talk to the mods or to Boydie and see what might be available for prizes
Start a thread announcing the competition and set out the rules and prizes
Then establish a record of posters entries
If you are so inclined, you can publish a weekly update of results

 

[Michael Goodinski]

Just looking at all these posts outlining possible best 23s is making me giddy with excitement! I know this is a yearly peak in excitement each December, but I'm excited (apologies Big Kev) about our chances for 2025.

A couple of caveats to keep the lid on, partially at least.

1. The Dark Angel of injury doesn't make its yearly visit around early March, just in time to dash our building excitement. Surely after the last two preseasons it will give us a miss. Perhaps the pres. can splash some blood on the entrance to RSEA park, passover style, giving said demonic angel a strong hint.

2. That weird-arse draw early on. Three trips to the strange, Gothic, murder capital of Australia in the first couple of months has the potential to ruin our season, or provide the impetus for a top 4 finish.

If those things go our way, we'll be flyin', I tells 'ya! I'm as excited as a very excited person going to a conference for very excitable people!

 

[Significant]

From training reports on here to media bits and pieces this is how i am imagining the round one team at present.

Webster Howard Wilkie
NWM Schoenmaker Sinclair
Wilson Steele Hill
Garcia King Sharman
Higgins Marshall Owens
Boyd Macrae Phillipou

Wood Travaglia Windhager Clark

Hastie

As much as I hate it, Travaglia sub for Butler in. And Owens and Sharman better be getting on their bikes and pressuring. King too!

I do think we line up like this as well (at least structurally), but it again speaks to the 'tweeners in our forward line (Owens and Sharman).

Too good to leave out.

Too small to be key forwards.

Too big to be pressuring the opposition.

It's a bit of an indictment we are trying to play Marshall forward to support King, when the 'tweeners don't exactly offset the decrease in pressure/increase in height.

As crazy as it sounds, I'm not opposed to Mitch being dropped if it's better for team balance. Get him in the midfield in the twos and build him up to be Green / Cripps post Steele / Macrae.

 

[saintmike65]

As much as I hate it, Travaglia sub for Butler in. And Owens and Sharman better be getting on their bikes and pressuring. King too!

I do think we line up like this as well (at least structurally), but it again speaks to the 'tweeners in our forward line (Owens and Sharman).

Too good to leave out.

Too small to be key forwards.

Too big to be pressuring the opposition.

It's a bit of an indictment we are trying to play Marshall forward to support King, when the 'tweeners don't exactly offset the decrease in pressure/increase in height.

As crazy as it sounds, I'm not opposed to Mitch being dropped if it's better for team balance. Get him in the midfield in the twos and build him up to be Green / Cripps post Steele / Macrae.

I still think Marshall will be first ruck, he’s training forward mainly due to recovery from wrist surgery..back up ruck will be interesting!

 

[ScrappyDo]

Just looking at all these posts outlining possible best 23s is making me giddy with excitement! I know this is a yearly peak in excitement each December, but I'm excited (apologies Big Kev) about our chances for 2025.

A couple of caveats to keep the lid on, partially at least.

1. The Dark Angel of injury doesn't make its yearly visit around early March, just in time to dash our building excitement. Surely after the last two preseasons it will give us a miss. Perhaps the pres. can splash some blood on the entrance to RSEA park, passover style, giving said demonic angel a strong hint.

2. That weird-arse draw early on. Three trips to the strange, Gothic, murder capital of Australia in the first couple of months has the potential to ruin our season, or provide the impetus for a top 4 finish.

If those things go our way, we'll be flyin', I tells 'ya! I'm as excited as a very excited person going to a conference for very excitable people!

Overall it's a pretty friendly fixture and l don't believe a hop to Adelaide is that taxing on the players. So long as lessons have been learnt regarding traing loads and a pinch of luck from the gods we'll have opportunity to make good.