St Kilda gone for 2011!

[Premier Pies]

Love all the 'predictions' in this thread. Let's be honest, most of us have no idea who will win the first game of the 2011 season, let alone who's going to be competitive for the season and who's not.

How many of us picked the Pies to win the 2010 flag at the end of the 2009 season?

That's why I'm amazed at all the Collingwood dynasty talk. It's hard enough to win one flag, let alone multiple. All it's going to take is a few injuries, a few hangovers, and a few second year blues, and the Pies come right back to the field.

Unfortunatley, we're just going to have to sit back and see how it all pans out.

Spanna couldn't be anymore right if he tried.

 

[jmirra]

were not gone just needs a few young players to step up

 

[Topper Harley]

no i actually i think the pies are that far ahead. performed absolute destroyations of all other members of the top 4 during sept. decisive victories over each of the beaten semi finalists throughout the year and both interstate. two destroyations of one elimination final loser druing h&a, and one destroyation of the other coupled with a 2 pt loss in a game with nothing riding on it in rnd 22 which they would have won anyway if beams kicks the goal

all points to a very dominant team that is some way ahead of the rest. yes, they drew the 1st grand final. all that proved is that even dominant teams can have a bad day. as a geel supporter i am sure you recall GF day 2008

I know YOU believe you are that far ahead, but as you've highlighted, anything can happen on a given day, just like 2008 and 2010.

When teams come out with a gameplan to take down the magpies, you quickly realise how hard it is to hold onto top spot. After 2007 it looked like Geelong were much further ahead of the rest of the competition then Collingwood are now, and it looked the same in 2008, but what happened?

Teams are now gunning for the pies, so just because you are the best, doesn't mean you are as far ahead as you think.

 

[Patron]

You won less games in the H and A than stkilda did last year and you drew the GF. Collingwood you are barely ahead of stkilda. I personally think stkilda have better players.

 

[Nardz]

You won less games in the H and A than stkilda did last year and you drew the GF. Collingwood you are barely ahead of stkilda. I personally think stkilda have better players.

on 2010 form: st.kilda's better players are probably a bit better than collingwoods better players (riewoldt, hayes, dal santo, goddard, montagna)

but

collingwoods fringe players are much better than st.kilda's fringe players.

our better players are at the age where they'll hopefully improve next year.

st.kilda's are at the age where they've probably peaked and will stagnate and/or regress

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Dawson, Blake, Dempster, Baker, Eddie, and McQualter are all negating players, capable of playing defensive roles, but not capable of opportunistic attack. If our more famous players can be negated, these guys are not going to step up and win the game for StKilda, they will just continue to make it hard for the opposition to score.
While I don't mind any of these players, and would even suggest that some of them are vital, this was too many for one team.

I believe that some of the younger players we will see next season, Armitage, Steven, Miles, Smith in particular, are capable of playing the defensive roles but also capable of winning the ball and attacking.
Tom Walsh ( Irish Rookie) has also been tracking nicely in the VFL, I guess the question is whether he has enough footy thinking to play at AFL speed without having to stop and think too much.

Something Roo's has said is that he didn't have an aim for the Sydney team to play his defensive flooding game, he developed the game plan to suit the playing group he had.
I'm hoping that Lyon shares this philosophy.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

How so? Fraser was smashed by Gardiner and King in last years finals.

That performance virtually ended his career.

Shame for you I wasnt talking about 2009.....

King was ineffective in 2010 and Gardiner missed 11 games including when it counted. Fraser, although being overlooked due to Collingwoods selection policy, barely missed a game due to injury.

Fraser was a far better Plan B than anything StKilda had.

 

[The Finger]

Shame for you I wasnt talking about 2009.....

King was ineffective in 2010 and Gardiner missed 11 games. Fraser, although being overlooked due to Collingwoods selection policy, barely missed a game due to injury

When you avoid body contact I guess its hard to get injured.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Dawson, Blake, Dempster, Baker, Eddie, and McQualter are all negating players, capable of playing defensive roles, but not capable of opportunistic attack. If our more famous players can be negated, these guys are not going to step up and win the game for StKilda, they will just continue to make it hard for the opposition to score.
While I don't mind any of these players, and would even suggest that some of them are vital, this was too many for one team.

I believe that some of the younger players we will see next season, Armitage, Steven, Miles, Smith in particular, are capable of playing the defensive roles but also capable of winning the ball and attacking.
Tom Walsh ( Irish Rookie) has also been tracking nicely in the VFL, I guess the question is whether he has enough footy thinking to play at AFL speed without having to stop and think too much.

Something Roo's has said is that he didn't have an aim for the Sydney team to play his defensive flooding game, he developed the game plan to suit the playing group he had.
I'm hoping that Lyon shares this philosophy.

Great post.

Collingwood (sans Presti) has no pure negating players apart from possibly Alan Toovey who himself can be creative at times and doesnt mind a goal.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

When you avoid body contact I guess its hard to get injured.

Now you are just being sad. Fraser, like Melbourne's messiah Jeff White, is an unndersized ruckman who has had plenty of injuries over the years. The difference between Melbourne and Collingwood of course is that the Demons got rid of Darren Jolly (because White was too good) while the Magpies recruited him (because Fraser wasnt good enough) .

StKilda carried two 32 year old dinosaurs and recruited an undersized ruckman who couldnt get a game for Richmond last year. Little wonder they ran out of ammo at the end of the season and had to ask a boy to do a mans' job.

 

[jerry springer]

Until they get rid of Kositchke they will always be a man down.He is a liabilty no doubt about it.Im shocked that he is not on the trade table as we speak.what St kilda sees in him has me absolutely ****ed.cant believe they gave him a 2 year deal mid-season but each to their own

 

[stfan]

st.kilda's are at the age where they've probably peaked and will stagnate and/or regress

LOL!!!

Goddard is just hitting his straps. Most likely in 2011 he will be just about the best player in the AFL.

Riewoldt was meant to be gone with all the experts stating that IF he got back this season that he would be below his best. He was just hitting his straps when he did his hamstring this year. He will be flying next year after another full pre-season the Pies wil get to take on a fully fit Roo.

These two are a big chance to be the best two players in the AFL next year, and if not will be close to it.

Chances of them regressing are basically nil.

Goddard probably has the fiercest competitive spirit. Remember that he did his new several seasons back...so only this year was he 100%.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

LOL!!!

Goddard is just hitting his straps. Most likely in 2011 he will be just about the best player in the AFL.

Riewoldt was meant to be gone with all the experts stating that IF he got back that he would be below his best. He was just hitting his straps when he did his hamstring this year. He will be flying next year after another full pre-season..

These two are a big chance to be the best two players in the AFL next year, and if not will be close to it.

Chances of them regressing are basically nil.

Goddard probably has the fiercest competitive spirit. Remember that he did his new several seasons back...so only this year was he 100%.

Two footballers dont make a football team, especially when one is more concerned with looking good than performing.

I am starting to feel sorry for Brendan Goddard.

 

[Plugger35]

Two footballers dont make a football team, especially when one is more concerned with looking good than performing.

I am starting to feel sorry for Brendan Goddard.

I think that applies more to Dale Thomas and Harry O'Brien than Riewoldt.

 

[stfan]

StKilda carried two 32 year old dinosaurs .

There was actually not even one 32 year old on the list this year.

But don't let facts get in the way....

Pattison was only recruited as a back-up player by the way.

The Pies by the way did have a 32 year old on their list this year...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Until they get rid of Kositchke they will always be a man down.He is a liabilty no doubt about it.Im shocked that he is not on the trade table as we speak.what St kilda sees in him has me absolutely ****ed.cant believe they gave him a 2 year deal mid-season but each to their own

I'm hoping that Stanley can get to a level better than Kosi after the pre-season (as a forward , he's still way too lightweight to be a serious ruck). His performances during 2010 were not that far off Kosi's averages. He's yet to play 2nd tall forward on the same team as Riewoldt.

With Gardiner's future still undecided, Kosi may be required as a ruckman, and even if Gardiner is able to play another year, and Stanley is sucessful, Kosi will be required for forward line and ruck depth depth. ( St Kilda have tried to get an alternative tall forward for years but have had a terrible run of luck, most recently Jarryd Allen suffering career ending injuries during his first season at the age of 20 ).

 

[stfan]

and Gardiner missed 11 games .

So it was a 33 game season then??

Or are you just lousy at maths, or looking up facts, or both?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

So it was a 33 game season then??

Or are you just lousy at maths, or looking up facts, or both?

Lousy at looking up facts. I stand corrected.

But when you're that age injury is just around the corner for a ruckman. StKilda was the only side in the comp to have two elderly ruckmen on their list with the next best option being just 21, and it cost them in the end.

 

[JuKa]

St.Kilda are a good side, and they'll play finals next year, but I don't believe they'll make top 4.

I said before THIS years GF, that I felt St.Kilda were VERY lucky to even be Top 4 this year. So I don't see them making it again next year with the essentially the exact same list and most likely gameplan, while others improve.

This is a ridiculous post. We beat everyone in the top four throughout the season

 

[Falchoon]

Shame for you I wasnt talking about 2009.....

Fraser was worse in 2010 than 2009

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

r u seriously surprised???


2004 at round 11 when we lost our first game they rode us off me made prelim and lost to premier
2005 start of season written off. made prelim and lost to premier again
2006 had the same fate finished 8th but lost to melbourne
2007 (ross' 1st year so cant expect too much) just missed finals
2008 written off at start of year looked like they were right half way through then we stepped it up a gear and made another prelim. but yet again lost to the premier.
2009 written off at start of year won 19 in a row made a grand final
2010 written off yet again made 2 grand finals

im not surprised anymore. people just dont want to admit that they fear us.

All you've done there is confirmed that everyone writing off the Saints year after year has been correct.

Geelong, St Kilda and Footscray may well make top 4 next year, but there's a difference between making top 4 and being a genuine contender. Footscray showed that this year. Personally I think all 3 of those clubs' premiership windows are closed for now.

 

[Beamsmagic]

I think that applies more to Dale Thomas and Harry O'Brien than Riewoldt.

I agree - they looked great with a premiership medallion - something Roo may never experience

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

We had tons of cover for Dawes, Anthony being one ideal replacement, Reid or one of the Browns being other choices, with Fraser or Presti a possibility to come in. Or Lockyer, Medhurst, or another mid.

Nobody even acknowedged Dawes existence until a few weeks ago. Its funny how quickly Dawes has changed from a one dimensional contested marking plodder to an irreplaceable gun!!!!!

Crap, on the day, big or small he was easily the best stay at home forward on the ground.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Lousy at looking up facts. I stand corrected.

But when you're that age injury is just around the corner for a ruckman. StKilda was the only side in the comp to have two elderly ruckmen on their list with the next best option being just 21, and it cost them in the end.

Legacy of the Grant Thomas era.
After one year in Lyon drafted the best possible ruckman as a first round pick - McEvoy ( With Kruezer obviously already taken ) . He then went for a more athletic type with Stanley, and we have two ruckmen on the rookie list, one of them almost certain to be elevated.
Unfortunately we need to struggle through the interim period with what we have. If we had wanted Mumford or Jolly we wouldn't have had the $$$ under the cap. ( curse Myke Pike for throwing himself at Sydney for free ).


Its interesting , when the Saints bottommed out under the Butterss regime, a number of early picks were gained and aggressive strategic trades were made to try to essentially do what the Pies have just done.
These involved
Callaghan - injuries played only 29 games.
Hamil- great but early retirement due to injury
Gehrig- goal kicking machine but now retired.
Capuano - Ruck- sacked.
Lawrence - Sacked
Heath Black- Went Home
Trent Knobel- Traded
Barry Brooks - Dud
Luke Penny - injuries - early retirement.
Luke Ball - Left
Xavier Clarke - Injury Prone - Traded
Guerra - De-listed.

Of the ones that remain from this era.
Riewoldt - Star.
Koschitski - Never realised his potential.
Nick Dal Santo- Star
Goddard - Star
Gram - Very good player.
R Clark - yet to live up to potential -injury prone.

Our current squad has just 3 top level players as a result of all the aggressive trading and early picks. All our other good players are a result of good later picks, smokeys, or trading.

I tend to chuckle a bit when teams ( and posters ) seem to think they only need to bottom out for a couple of years and then they will rebuild and win a premiership.
It still needs a lot of things to go right.

Of course the Gold Coast may not need luck.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Fraser was worse in 2010 than 2009

A year older definitely and superceded - for sure. Worse - maybe - who knows - but Jolly changed the dynamics for Collingwood.

King was worse in 2010 than 2009 (Gardiner was the same as 2009 but broke down when it mattered) but Pattison didnt change the dynamics for StKilda. Thats one example of why Collingwood has a premiership flag and StKilda doesnt - we got Jolly to bolster our ruck stocks, StKilda got Pattison to bolster their VFL side.