Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[ChristianBoy]

Close to the best depth in the AFL as evidenced in tonight’s game.

Kids everywhere.

 

[Lampers]

Close to the best depth in the AFL as evidenced in tonight’s game.

Kids everywhere.

Kids? If we count 21 and under as kids it was five players out there, and a few of those had nice games.

Five of that age profile is not unusual. Heck Freo also had five “kids”. Sydney had five “kids”. Collingwood and Geelong each had three “kids”. North had seven “kids”. Melbourne had four “kids”.

It was the experienced hands that got St.Kilda over the line today. Great effort, but it wasn’t due to kids.

 

[Freomaniac]

Highly debatable.

Well....

 

[Freomaniac]

Lol Lyon > Bucks as coach any day

Agreed

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Well....

You think a win in Round 1 changes anything?

 

[ChristianBoy]

Kids? If we count 21 and under as kids it was five players out there, and a few of those had nice games.

Five of that age profile is not unusual. Heck Freo also had five “kids”. Sydney had five “kids”. Collingwood and Geelong each had three “kids”. North had seven “kids”. Melbourne had four “kids”.

It was the experienced hands that got St.Kilda over the line today. Great effort, but it wasn’t due to kids.

King Windhager there two best didn’t play.

 

[Lampers]

King Windhager there two best didn’t play.

Why are you keeping up the charade that you’re not a St.Kilda supporter?

Two best what? Kids? King is turning 23 this year and has 60 games experience. He’s not a “kid”.

You don’t think if King and Windhager played that some of the other kids would go out of the team?

St.Kilda had a win predominantly off the back of their experienced players, with a couple of nice contributions from younger players. That’s pretty much what every team does.

There weren’t “kids everywhere” and it certainly wasn’t due to the “best depth in the AFL”.

 

[bird_man]

Why are you keeping up the charade that you’re not a St.Kilda supporter?

Two best what? Kids? King is turning 23 this year and has 60 games experience. He’s not a “kid”.

You don’t think if King and Windhager played that some of the other kids would go out of the team?

St.Kilda had a win predominantly off the back of their experienced players, with a couple of nice contributions from younger players. That’s pretty much what every team does.

There weren’t “kids everywhere” and it certainly wasn’t due to the “best depth in the AFL”.

In terms of the position King plays and how they often take longer to reach their peak he is still well and truly a kid IMO

You are right though, we were not full of kids. But no side ever is these days. Even the Hawks had the same amount of 21 and under than us. Without going through I'd imagine North the only one that had more.

I thought they were very good though. I had Byrnes in our top 2 or 3 on the ground and thought Owens was very good too. Very sxcited about Phillipou too.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Close to the best depth in the AFL as evidenced in tonight’s game.

Kids everywhere.

If St Kilda have the 'best depth in the AFL', it's sure as shit not because of the kids, it's because their list is crammed full to the brim of other clubs' mature aged cheap castoffs and delistees who achieve nothing other than helping keep the Saints mired in the midtable mediocrity they've been for years.

There's probably very little difference between the 15th and 30th best player at St Kilda, but that's ans much an indictment on the 15th player as it is an endorsement of the 30th player.

 

[Grav]

If St Kilda have the 'best depth in the AFL', it's sure as s**t not because of the kids, it's because their list is crammed full to the brim of other clubs' mature aged cheap castoffs and delistees who achieve nothing other than helping keep the Saints mired in the midtable mediocrity they've been for years.

There's probably very little difference between the 15th and 30th best player at St Kilda, but that's ans much an indictment on the 15th player as it is an endorsement of the 30th player.

Fantasia, Aliir Aliir, Finlayson, McKenzie, Rioli, Dixon, Lycett all say hi!

 

[Schulzenfest]

Fantasia, Aliir Aliir, Finlayson, McKenzie, Rioli, Dixon, Lycett all say hi!

Aside from McKenzie literally none of those players fit the example I gave, but okay, good job buddy. You nailed me as hard as St Kilda nails recruiting.

 

[bird_man]

Aside from McKenzie literally none of those players fit the example I gave, but okay, good job buddy. You nailed me as hard as St Kilda nails recruiting.

St Kilda don't really have too many that fit that bill either

Stocker and Wood yes. But Wood has been a very good pick up and Stocker is still young enough to make it.

Then we have Tom Campbell as a back up ruck

Don't port also have Trent Dumont on their list?

 

[Schulzenfest]

St Kilda don't really have too many that fit that bill either

Stocker and Wood yes. But Wood has been a very good pick up and Stocker is still young enough to make it.

Then we have Tom Campbell as a back up ruck

Don't port also have Trent Dumont on their list?

Butler and Cordy as well.

Yes, Port have Dumont, but we shouldn't and he should be delisted, just like all the castoffs at St Kilda should be.

If I was appointed Saints list manager at the end of the year, if I didn't have to worry about existing contracts, the first thing I'd be doing is delisting everyone over the age of 25 who wouldn't get a game for the premiers. There was a good start last year in shedding Geary, Hannebery, Kent and Lienert, but there's still plenty more to go. Butler, Cordy, Webster, McKenzie, Campbell, Wood, all gone. If you were being really ruthless you'd even look at names like Zak Jones and Seb Ross.

Some of those guys are decent best 22 players, sure. It'd probably result in a drop off on the ladder in 2024. But to be honest, the Saints need a drop off on the ladder. If they keep finishing midtable and getting pick 10 every year, they'll never win a premiership again.

 

[bird_man]

Butler and Cordy as well.

Yes, Port have Dumont, but we shouldn't and he should be delisted, just like all the castoffs at St Kilda should be.

If I was appointed Saints list manager at the end of the year, if I didn't have to worry about existing contracts, the first thing I'd be doing is delisting everyone over the age of 25 who wouldn't get a game for the premiers. There was a good start last year in shedding Geary, Hannebery, Kent and Lienert, but there's still plenty more to go. Butler, Cordy, Webster, McKenzie, Campbell, Wood, all gone. If you were being really ruthless you'd even look at names like Zak Jones and Seb Ross.

Some of those guys are decent best 22 players, sure. It'd probably result in a drop off on the ladder in 2024. But to be honest, the Saints need a drop off on the ladder. If they keep finishing midtable and getting pick 10 every year, they'll never win a premiership again.

Both Butler and Cordy were offered contracts at their clubs so dont fit the bill. If you are using those as examples surely someone like Finlayson falls in the same category?

Also, both those players have more premierships than the majority of players on your list so I’m not sure about you theory

That would be idiotic. We've seen clubs shed their list like that in the past and it doesn't work well.

We've drafted key position players in the past two drafts but they take time so it makes sense to have the likes of Cordy and Campbell as depth players rather than throw them to the wolves.

There's a bit of a myth around with some fans that you need to completely bottom out to build. Not sure going down the North Melbourne path is the right answer, but time will tell.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Both Butler and Cordy were offered contracts at their clubs so dont fit the bill. If you are using those as examples surely someone like Finlayson falls in the same category?

Also, both those players have more premierships than the majority of players on your list so I’m not sure about you theory

That would be idiotic. We've seen clubs shed their list like that in the past and it doesn't work well.

We've drafted key position players in the past two drafts but they take time so it makes sense to have the likes of Cordy and Campbell as depth players rather than throw them to the wolves.

There's a bit of a myth around with some fans that you need to completely bottom out to build. Not sure going down the North Melbourne path is the right answer, but time will tell.

Ordinarily I'd agree that a guy traded for a third rounder fits that bill, but Finlayson was traded on compassionate grounds because of his wife's cancer (her family are all in Adelaide). If not for that he'd still be at GWS.

The North Melbourne example is what I had in mind. And yes, they have been terrible the last few years. But I would take their current young talent stacked list over their list three years ago every day of the week, even if their list three years ago was winning a few more games in the short term. And I'd take their current list over St Kilda's current list too. I reckon I'd take every list in the competition aside from West Coast over St Kilda's current list.

 

[bird_man]

Ordinarily I'd agree that a guy traded for a third rounder fits that bill, but Finlayson was traded on compassionate grounds because of his wife's cancer (her family are all in Adelaide). If not for that he'd still be at GWS.

The North Melbourne example is what I had in mind. And yes, they have been terrible the last few years. But I would take their current young talent stacked list over their list three years ago every day of the week, even if their list three years ago was winning a few more games in the short term. And I'd take their current list over St Kilda's current list too. I reckon I'd take every list in the competition aside from West Coast over St Kilda's current list.

He’s an average footballer though, a third round pick was probably all he was going to cost. Had one good game last year and was pretty ordinary for the rest of it.

I’d hardly call North a young talent stacked list. Young yes, but the quality (outside of Sheezel who looks a star) doesn’t scream stacked with talent to me. Not sure they have a whole lot to show for years of being very ordinary.

 

[ChristianBoy]

Butler and Cordy as well.

Yes, Port have Dumont, but we shouldn't and he should be delisted, just like all the castoffs at St Kilda should be.

If I was appointed Saints list manager at the end of the year, if I didn't have to worry about existing contracts, the first thing I'd be doing is delisting everyone over the age of 25 who wouldn't get a game for the premiers. There was a good start last year in shedding Geary, Hannebery, Kent and Lienert, but there's still plenty more to go. Butler, Cordy, Webster, McKenzie, Campbell, Wood, all gone. If you were being really ruthless you'd even look at names like Zak Jones and Seb Ross.

Some of those guys are decent best 22 players, sure. It'd probably result in a drop off on the ladder in 2024. But to be honest, the Saints need a drop off on the ladder. If they keep finishing midtable and getting pick 10 every year, they'll never win a premiership again.

Webster and McKenzie are both good footballers while Campbell is depth.

 

[Milanista28]

Fight and heart was there yesterday, that has to make saint fans proud, Lyon knows how to get into the heads of his players, he made them buy in. Good signs.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

If St Kilda have the 'best depth in the AFL', it's sure as s**t not because of the kids, it's because their list is crammed full to the brim of other clubs' mature aged cheap castoffs and delistees who achieve nothing other than helping keep the Saints mired in the midtable mediocrity they've been for years.

There's probably very little difference between the 15th and 30th best player at St Kilda, but that's ans much an indictment on the 15th player as it is an endorsement of the 30th player.

No doubt we need to add more elite talent . But seriously I don’t believe port are a contender either I rank them in the 6-10 zone a lot of good players but not many elite

 

[Schulzenfest]

No doubt we need to add more elite talent . But seriously I don’t believe port are a contender either I rank them in the 6-10 zone a lot of good players but not many elite

Cool. Go post about it in the Port thread.

 

[Veer Right]

No doubt we need to add more elite talent . But seriously I don’t believe port are a contender either I rank them in the 6-10 zone a lot of good players but not many elite

See them on the weekend? JHF could be anything. Rozee and Butters coming on strong. Then you have Wines and Boak. That's just their midfield. Lot to like.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

See them on the weekend? JHF could be anything. Rozee and Butters coming on strong. Then you have Wines and Boak. That's just their midfield. Lot to like.

Yes I watched there game I see them as a good regular season team. but I don’t see them being a contender especially with Hinkley as coach there game plan just doesn’t get it done in finals . Jhf is a good young player but they gave up a lot to get him be interesting to see who wins that trade

 

[master bate]

If St Kilda have the 'best depth in the AFL', it's sure as s**t not because of the kids, it's because their list is crammed full to the brim of other clubs' mature aged cheap castoffs and delistees who achieve nothing other than helping keep the Saints mired in the midtable mediocrity they've been for years.

There's probably very little difference between the 15th and 30th best player at St Kilda, but that's ans much an indictment on the 15th player as it is an endorsement of the 30th player.

Very true.

The good version of Max King is a huge out from the Saints side. And whilst Windhager is a big talent and Membrey a solid player I think I could make a strong argument that for every other injury including those 2 the Saints had perfectly capable replacements who were just as good.

The Saints recruiters deserve credit for some very strong mature age recruiting as well as all the cast offs.

And I'd imagine their cap space and willingness (or need) to give guys games allows them to get in to the castoff game. They've been unlikely to land true big name superstars so post Hill and Crouch they've kind of abandoned that route but still picked up guys when they needed to which has been smart. Ie. Cordy.

The only thing I'd say is even best teams don't have exceptional 19th-22nd best players most of the time. Rarely do you see a grand final team like the Cats with some decent names miss out.

So it's not like the Saints have to find too many more to relegate that 15th best player to where they belong.

Their issue remains finding top 5 players but for some reason many of the top 10 in the draft last year went a little crazy and did everything they could not to draft Phillipou which was an absolute gift.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Butler and Cordy as well.

Yes, Port have Dumont, but we shouldn't and he should be delisted, just like all the castoffs at St Kilda should be.

If I was appointed Saints list manager at the end of the year, if I didn't have to worry about existing contracts, the first thing I'd be doing is delisting everyone over the age of 25 who wouldn't get a game for the premiers. There was a good start last year in shedding Geary, Hannebery, Kent and Lienert, but there's still plenty more to go. Butler, Cordy, Webster, McKenzie, Campbell, Wood, all gone. If you were being really ruthless you'd even look at names like Zak Jones and Seb Ross.

Some of those guys are decent best 22 players, sure. It'd probably result in a drop off on the ladder in 2024. But to be honest, the Saints need a drop off on the ladder. If they keep finishing midtable and getting pick 10 every year, they'll never win a premiership again.

You obviously haven’t watched to many of our games I agree there’s a bit of dead wood that needs to be cut but to try and do it over one off season like your pointing with every player over 25would be ridiculous and create a bad situation like hawthorn are currently in . We brought in an elite young player in mattaes this year we need to keep taking our first and second round picks to the draft over the coming seasons and get games into them I don’t believe we need to tear down and completely rebuild

 

[EconomicDecline]

Butler and Cordy as well.

Yes, Port have Dumont, but we shouldn't and he should be delisted, just like all the castoffs at St Kilda should be.

If I was appointed Saints list manager at the end of the year, if I didn't have to worry about existing contracts, the first thing I'd be doing is delisting everyone over the age of 25 who wouldn't get a game for the premiers. There was a good start last year in shedding Geary, Hannebery, Kent and Lienert, but there's still plenty more to go. Butler, Cordy, Webster, McKenzie, Campbell, Wood, all gone. If you were being really ruthless you'd even look at names like Zak Jones and Seb Ross.

Some of those guys are decent best 22 players, sure. It'd probably result in a drop off on the ladder in 2024. But to be honest, the Saints need a drop off on the ladder. If they keep finishing midtable and getting pick 10 every year, they'll never win a premiership again.

Clearly never watched a Saints game if you're going about suggesting delisting Webster, McKenzie, Wood & Ross