St Kilda, Ross Lyon, The Psychology Of Tribe, And Hate

[sainter35]

I think 2011 showed Ross's window with the saints was up. His coaching in the finals v the swans was complacent and very unross like.
Very unlucky not to have got us a flag, but coached for the present. With our list we need a coach willing to bring in a new system and new players. The uncompromising defensive based footy took its toll, as it appears to have done for the pies.
With Geelong the obvious exception, getting into two grand finals is as good as it gets in modern footy. Since 2004 we've seen the swans, eagles, port, saints, pies all play in two. The hawks in one and one prelim, the dogs in two prelims. Saints very unlucky.
Good luck to Freo, better luck to us I hope.
Happy with our new coach - we wouldn't have gone forward with Ross this year.

This is a really good balanced summation of where we are at.

We lost the game through our deplorable skill level bringing the ball into fwd 50 and woeful decision making. 56 inside 50's to 44 will normally be enough to win.....except when you have a side loaded with B Grade disposers of the ball in:

Jones;
Blake,
Polo
Gilbert

even Gram, Peake and Ray are suspect.

But even though we lost the game (and yep the umpiring as mentioned today on radio was deplorable) I know Ross Lyon was not the coach to take us forward - how do I know this?

Take a look at that list above of really prdinary users of the ball....add in Dempster, Eddy and Mqualter and ask who had a huge part in building it? Ross Lyon.

He coached hoping our "core" would only need to be bolstered with mediocre mature bodied players to win an GF and it nearly was.........only problem is when the heats on in big games.......the cream/skill rises to the top..

Thankfully Pelchen and Watters have already identified that we need an injection of youth and real skill and started to recruit and play these kids. It will take us a number of years before we challenge again...but at least we now have a coach interested in developing our players.

 

[mysainters]

Delusional, this post is delusional.

Why, I'm asking why?

 

[skilts]

What does that even?

You possibly meant to write, "Isn't that odd." I must admit that's a bit of a stab in the dark. It's a trifle difficult to work out what you mean in any of your posts. You seem confused.

 

[frednirk]

I agree Ross last game as coach of stkilda showed how apathetic he was. Our game against the swans in that final was completely lacking passion and a will to win, strategically. I think the players had also exhausted much of their desire to win a flag.

The era is now over, Ross could see it. I dont think he wanted to spend the effort rebuilding from scratch. It is a massive effort, and he was likely to get sacked anyway if he took us to the bottom of the ladder for a few years he would have been sacked anyway.

Now he is coaching a team that is incredibly favoured by umpires, are more skillful than the saints and are faster.

He may just win a flag at freo. But i think it has to be this year or next year. Afterwards, the freo players will tire of the Exhaustive demands of the Ross Lyon attitude towards footy. It is highly disciplined, structured, regimented. It is not free flowing and creative and fun.

I think a group of players can only follow this method for a short period of time.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I agree Ross last game as coach of stkilda showed how apathetic he was. Our game against the swans in that final was completely lacking passion and a will to win, strategically. I think the players had also exhausted much of their desire to win a flag.

The era is now over, Ross could see it. I dont think he wanted to spend the effort rebuilding from scratch. It is a massive effort, and he was likely to get sacked anyway if he took us to the bottom of the ladder for a few years he would have been sacked anyway.

Now he is coaching a team that is incredibly favoured by umpires, are more skillful than the saints and are faster.

He may just win a flag at freo. But i think it has to be this year or next year. Afterwards, the freo players will tire of the Exhaustive demands of the Ross Lyon attitude towards footy. It is highly disciplined, structured, regimented. It is not free flowing and creative and fun.

I think a group of players can only follow this method for a short period of time.

Absolute rubbish.

He was given a financial offer he couldnt refuse.

 

[frednirk]

That was a contributing factor yes. But cant be the only one. The realisation that the era was over and he would have to rebuild a team and spend years at the bottom posssibly getting sacked in the process wasnt very appealing.

So yes, he took the money and ran like the career whore bitch that he is.


Max of three years to get a flag for freo. It will all end bitterly for them as well if he doesnt deliver.

 

[Black Diamond]

He may just win a flag at freo. But i think it has to be this year or next year. Afterwards, the freo players will tire of the Exhaustive demands of the Ross Lyon attitude towards footy. It is highly disciplined, structured, regimented. It is not free flowing and creative and fun.

I think a group of players can only follow this method for a short period of time.

Funny, because I thought the Dockers played an enjoyable style with lots of run and handball, and long kicking.

 

[Falchoon]

Absolute rubbish.

He was given a financial offer he couldnt refuse.

not every St Kilda thread has to be about Luke Ball

 

[estibador]

That was a contributing factor yes. But cant be the only one. The realisation that the era was over and he would have to rebuild a team and spend years at the bottom posssibly getting sacked in the process wasnt very appealing.

So yes, he took the money and ran like the career whore bitch that he is.

Lol... you yourself just admitted that you might have sacked him after the inevitable rebuilding slide down the ladder, yet he's a 'whore bitch' for leaving first.

"You can't quit, you're fired!"

 

[dmc333]

Always a bonus to bail when a team is about to go down the ladder. You can protect your winning record.

 

[Furuncle]

Pfft, bloke changed jobs. Pathetic of Saints fans to boo him tonight, really classless. Took them to 2 gfs (or 3 if you want to be pedantic). Instilled a competitive spirit in them that was envied by most other clubs. And with a young family and in financial strife took the best offer he received. Totally bought the media sensationalism. Even if it wasnt the best way to go about it, it wasn't so terrible that his service should be forgotten.
Disgraceful.

Ease up, mate.

Fremantle stole away the best coach St Kilda ever had. Now you want give Saints fans another kick in the head after you've just beaten them. Learn some humility and shut up...

Fans of all persuasion have booed the football mercenaries since time immemorial. Coaches cop it worse than any player. e.g. Gary Ayres and Terry Wallace copped similar sprays after walking out on their clubs.

It's idiotic of you to suggest that Saints fans were influenced by the media in the build-up. You've obviously got no idea about the mentality of the feral hardcore Saints fan. Sounds to me like you're more of a sucker for the media bullshit than the heckling St Kilda fans.

Ross Lyon had his reasons for leaving St Kilda. Money probably wasn't the only reason, but safe to say, it was probably the number one reason. For someone who achieved such good results, he was treated rather shabbily by the inept St Kilda administration, but this has nothing to do with the rank and file Saints fans. They are entitled to feel a sense of betrayal and they are entitled to vent their feelings at the game.

Passion from the fans is what makes the AFL this country's pre-eminent sport. Without the passion from the fans, there would be less interest, lower attendances, lower ratings and less money for the participants. Aussie battlers like Ross Lyon would be in even greater financial strife!

 

[Rors]

Ross Lyon stated that the financial side of things did influence his decision to leave StKilda but wasnt the only reason... The thing that pissed me off the most about the whole way Ross played the situation was about his investments that cost him a 'lot of money' & in a way cried poor to achieve some sort of public sympathy to justify his decision to leave....

I suggest next time Ross does a newspaper article wanting public sympathy for his losing of money in the GFC to justify his controversial decision, dont pose for a photo in front of your tennis court!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

That was a contributing factor yes. But cant be the only one..

The complete disrespect some Saints players showed to the club off field would be another factor.

When the money offer came around then that would be a factor...."why should I stay here if the players are willing to derail season after season with their own stupidity"

 

[leeloo]

Ross Lyon stated that the financial side of things did influence his decision to leave StKilda but wasnt the only reason... The thing that pissed me off the most about the whole way Ross played the situation was about his investments that cost him a 'lot of money' & in a way cried poor to achieve some sort of public sympathy to justify his decision to leave....

I suggest next time Ross does a newspaper article wanting public sympathy for his losing of money in the GFC to justify his controversial decision, dont pose for a photo in front of your tennis court!

So you know this is his home? In Perth or Melbourne?

 

[estibador]

I suggest next time Ross does a newspaper article wanting public sympathy for his losing of money in the GFC to justify his controversial decision, dont pose for a photo in front of your tennis court!

How do you know that's his? Don't they have public tennis courts or swing sets in Victoria?

 

[Rors]

How do you know that's his? Don't they have public tennis courts or swing sets in Victoria?

They do, but not usually with kids toys & mobile/portable basketball rings as optional extras

http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/afl-news/road-to-ruin-lyon-confirms-money-woes--says-he-has-great-empathy-for-harvey-20110920-1kjds.html

I especially like the photo caption stating "doing it tough"....

 

[The Speaker]

Ross Lyon stated that the financial side of things did influence his decision to leave StKilda but wasnt the only reason... The thing that pissed me off the most about the whole way Ross played the situation was about his investments that cost him a 'lot of money' & in a way cried poor to achieve some sort of public sympathy to justify his decision to leave....

I suggest next time Ross does a newspaper article wanting public sympathy for his losing of money in the GFC to justify his controversial decision, dont pose for a photo in front of your tennis court!

How is that "crying poor to achieve public sympathy"?

Since when was Lyon the type of person who cared for public sympathy?

All it is is a reason amongst numerous reasons given to explain his decision.

 

[leeloo]

They do, but not usually with kids toys & mobile/portable basketball rings as optional extras

http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/afl-news/road-to-ruin-lyon-confirms-money-woes--says-he-has-great-empathy-for-harvey-20110920-1kjds.html

I especially like the photo caption stating "doing it tough"....

So you know that this is his house?!

 

[Rors]

How is that "crying poor to achieve public sympathy"?

Since when was Lyon the type of person who cared for public sympathy?

All it is is a reason amongst numerous reasons given to explain his decision.

Each to their own.... Thats how i saw the interview/article & thats my opinion i am sharing with the lovely folk here on BigFooty. Dont really care if you dont see it that way, isnt that what these forums are for: sharing your view?

Remember too, that in the words of Robbo: i am a highly strung, emotional StKilda supporter

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

At least Lyon didnt lent $1 mil to the club president who then refused to repay it.

 

[Rors]

So you know that this is his house?!

Yes. Friends used to live just down the road from him. It was his house

 

[yakka man]

Any supporter would be hurt by a coach leaving to go to another club. But a lot more respect should of been shown to a coach who has taken them to great heights and done a hell of a lot for the club. It's a classic example of how quick fans can turn on you and probably reinforces his decision to leave. It's pathetic.

We made him an other he couldn't refuse. He didn't go looking for a new job.

 

[RW]

Any supporter would be hurt by a coach leaving to go to another club. But a lot more respect should of been shown to a coach who has taken them to great heights and done a hell of a lot for the club. It's a classic example of how quick fans can turn on you and probably reinforces his decision to leave. It's pathetic.

Good post. I know the way he left the Saints will probably leave a sour taste in the mouths of quite a few people for some time, but I look back at St Kilda's 2011 and I see a team and coach that was emotionally spent after having climbed the mountain twice in the last two years and come up empty-handed. I think Lyon realised that he had achieved everything that he could at St Kilda. Having experienced grand final defeat by a small margin, when you get beaten in a grand final by a kick basically and draw another one, the outcome is pretty much determined by the bounce of the ball... he did all he could to get them a flag.

I think the move will do wonders for both clubs, I don't agree with everything Malthouse has to say but when the Saints went with Watters he praised him as someone who had the ability to make groups of people connect and understand each other, who understands exactly how to get people working together. The Saints showed on Friday night that they definitely don't lack passion, but lost the game through poor kicking and inside 50 entries.

On the other hand, I think Lyon will be good for Freo, already the side seems to be playing a more committed brand of footy, the Dockers of old probably would have lost on Friday night. You guys need to stop stealing our ex-assistants On a serious note, I think the 'Bloods' / 'Saints' brand of footy that Lyon will bring to the side could be the missing link for Freo to take the next step and become a force in the competition.

 

[Rors]

Any supporter would be hurt by a coach leaving to go to another club. But a lot more respect should of been shown to a coach who has taken them to great heights and done a hell of a lot for the club. It's a classic example of how quick fans can turn on you and probably reinforces his decision to leave. It's pathetic.

We made him an other he couldn't refuse. He didn't go looking for a new job.

I agree, but there will always be people that view it as a 'slap in the face' or 'giving up on the group'... they will boo

Just as im sure there will be a minority of Fremantle supporters that will boo Chris Tarrant when you guys play the Pies, and you will boo "money bags" Rhys Palmer when you play GWS... Footy is a fickle game & people respect loyalty, and as much as that seems hypocritical, its true... When a player or coach walks out, it hurts... People just have different ways of expressing it

I wasnt at the game on friday night & i know for a fact that i wouldnt have booed, but i certainly wouldnt have thanked him for his service, considering the list he has left us with since walking out... I think this is the major issue that is irking most StKilda supporters

In effect, all Ross Lyon did at StKilda was put a defensive tweak on a list that he inherited from Grant Thomas, brought in a lot of recycled players to plays 'roles' & left gaping holes in our development of youth due to the draft picks used to get these recycled players... It nearly won 2 flags back-to-back which is great, but it didnt, & now we have to start from the ground up again & the person to help us do that turned & walked out. And you expect us to be grateful? Cmon!

To put Ross Lyon in the great coach bracket is ridiculous. He needs to do what Matthews, Malthouse, Thompson & Clarkson have done to be considered a great coach & that is to build a list from the ground up & win a premiership with that list.

If he wins one for you guys, the first person i will be thanking is Mark Harvey for putting together what, to me, looks like a fantastic list with the potential to go a long way in the next few years.

 

[raffrox]

Clarkson is arguably a less successful coach when compared to Lyon. He jagged a premiership but otherwise I don't see him as being a better coach than Lyon.

And yes, Rors you shoul dbe thankful for what Ross Lyon did for your club.