Moved Thread St Kilda's 2012 Trading

[SaintLex]

Tom Hickey - This one is just unbelievable. Disaster.

Tom Lee - Serious question marks over him at this stage.

Tom Lee has spent 1 year and roughly 6 months on an AFL list. He just turned 22.

Tom Hickey is 22 and only started playing football when he was 17. He's played 16 games.

Knowing that talls take longer to develop, especially ruck men, don't you think it's premature to label them a 'disaster'?

 

[The Finger]

Oh so picks 24 and 25 are highly rated now are they? They could have their hands on the next P.Johnson, Moody, Hughes, Rusling, Renouf, Hinkley, L.Ablett, Armstrong, Urch, Ch.Jones, Mills, Djerrkura or Collier. History says those picks have about a 15-20% success rate.

Yes but they weren't they got Wright and White. No one would batter an eyelid if either went first round.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Tom Lee has spent 1 year and roughly 6 months on an AFL list. He just turned 22.

Tom Hickey is 22 and only started playing football when he was 17. He's played 16 games.

Knowing that talls take longer to develop, especially ruck men, don't you think it's premature to label them a 'disaster'?

Shhhh no-one knows that, its a secret.
Even the Essendon supporters think that young Joe should be in their team completing for the Coleman ( even though they have plenty of more mature options ).

 

[St DAC]

OP has a major case of premature exasperation ...

 

[Daz]

Tom Lee has spent 1 year and roughly 6 months on an AFL list. He just turned 22.

Tom Hickey is 22 and only started playing football when he was 17. He's played 16 games.

Knowing that talls take longer to develop, especially ruck men, don't you think it's premature to label them a 'disaster'?

No issue with Hickey as a player but I think he was a poor target for the Saints. Here would be my list of needs for St Kilda last season:

1) Young gun key forward
2) Young gun key defender
3) Young gun midfielder
4) Break in case of emergency ruckman

 

[Daz]

Yes but they weren't they got Wright and White. No one would batter an eyelid if either went first round.

...Except all the recruiters who agreed they weren't first round talents.

 

[Tas]

Exactly. Ruckman are notoriously slow to develop (McEvoy is a case in point). Most of the players drafted this year were "cheap". I wasn't that happy with Lee but the rest of the trading was good. White and Wright should be 200 gamers. Be surprised if Saunders does not make it. TDL was primarily speculative.

You can't just trade away all your experience players (Dal Santo). Look what has happened at Melbourne. StKilda had a fair idea that Goddard was only 50/50, getting rid of other top liners is not really an option, you need someone there to bring the kids through.

The North Melbourne loss was probably our worst in 6 years (not saying we haven't gone down by bigger margins (not sure that we have though) but to get blown away in the first quarter to that extent is unsual for this team. We will have money and draft picks this year to bring in some real quality.

Outside of the first quarter Saints were pretty competitive, scores were 10.12 vs 9.5, Saints just weren't on in the first quarter, Hayes was a pretty big loss for the Saints, we have been rebuilding for some time now and can more easily replace Ziebell than the Saints can replace Lenny.

Saints need to hold on to Dal Santo, Reiwoldt, etc. Don't listen to people recommending Saints do a Melbourne. The good quality players will demand a high standard and will teach the young players more than the coaches will. it is why it hasn't really made a lot of difference to Melbourne who has come in to coach, they don't really have the cattle, if they give Neeld the shiv it will just buy the next cab off the rank a few years before they get enough talent/experience and maturity to be more competitive.

 

[Jackyboy]

No idea why people bang on about this... I (and alot of others) know where we are placed and this just smells like someone's head getting a bit wobbly over there own teams form and taking shots. We've got some good young players coming through. I like Lee as a player and think he will be good in a year or two at 24 after his body develops a bit and he get's use to our style of play. Hickey is a good backup ruckman and if you can't see that him and Macca are very good contested marks then your crazy so it's not uncommon to see us rest one of them forward considering our depth up forward at the moment.

We need to trade Dal for a first rounder and get a good group of kids in this year who can compliment our existing young talent. I love going and watching Steven's, Armo, Macca, Robertson, Geary, Sippos (even though he is inconsistent), Seb Ross, Newnes, Stanley, Webster, Simpkin, Wright and others... I know exactly where we are at and don't get why others don't. We aren't challenging or in a position to challenge but we aren't or won't be in a western bulldogs / melbourne position because of these kids and come of our proven champions / warriors in Reiwoldt, Hayes (who's productivity is down but leadership and knowledge are invaluable) Fisher, Dempster etc...

Anyway that's my take on it. Did we overpay for Dennis-Lane probably given Saad and Milera but Milne's obviously not continuing for long and competition and fight at that spot is what brings out the best so i'm not overly upset at that. Lee and Hickey will be good players and a weak draft (supposedly) forced some moves.

My two cents

 

[Defacto]

No issue with Hickey as a player but I think he was a poor target for the Saints. Here would be my list of needs for St Kilda last season:

1) Young gun key forward
2) Young gun key defender
3) Young gun midfielder
4) Break in case of emergency ruckman

rome isnt built in a day. we are 2 years into a 4 year rebuild.

you target the talent when it is available. white was drafted as a key forward. KPD is coming this trade/draft period. MID is coming this trade/draft period. 4 is hickey.

watters is on record saying you cant fix the list in one trade period

 

[Defacto]

No issue with Hickey as a player but I think he was a poor target for the Saints. Here would be my list of needs for St Kilda last season:

1) Young gun key forward
2) Young gun key defender
3) Young gun midfielder
4) Break in case of emergency ruckman

rome isnt built in a day. we are 2 years into a 4 year rebuild.

you target the talent when it is available. white was drafted as a key forward. KPD is coming this trade/draft period. MID is coming this trade/draft period. 4 is hickey.

watters is on record saying you cant fix the list in one trade period

 

[The Finger]

...Except all the recruiters who agreed they weren't first round talents.

Ok so you don't rate Andrew Swallow then?

 

[Daz]

Ok so you don't rate Andrew Swallow then?

Oh FFS you're a genuine moron.

 

[The Finger]

Oh FFS you're a genuine moron.

Hang on your the one that posted anyone outside of the top ten are no good.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

...Except all the recruiters who agreed they weren't first round talents.

You do know how the draft works right?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No issue with Hickey as a player but I think he was a poor target for the Saints. Here would be my list of needs for St Kilda last season:

1) Young gun key forward
2) Young gun key defender
3) Young gun midfielder
4) Break in case of emergency ruckman

Hickey was available.

So who are these young guns?
Would our list be better if we'd used our earliest pick for Josh Caddy?

 

[Super Hans]

Hickey will be good, but ruck wasn't really a massive need for them. I'm not a fan of Lee but I haven't seen a whole lot of him.

Wright is going to be a gun player and White could be anything. TDL makes zero sense at all given that they have many small forwards already.

Their whole draft I'd give a 6/10.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hickey will be good, but ruck wasn't really a massive need for them. I'm not a fan of Lee but I haven't seen a whole lot of him.

Wright is going to be a gun player and White could be anything. TDL makes zero sense at all given that they have many small forwards already.

Their whole draft I'd give a 6/10.

So you think it was an acceptable situation that Jason Blake and Beau Maester were rucking.

 

[Super Hans]

So you think it was an acceptable situation that Jason Blake and Beau Maester were rucking.

No. McEvoy + Stanley giving him a chop out would do the job though. And a back up in the VFL if McEvoy goes down that doesn't cost much.

 

[Daz]

So you think it was an acceptable situation that Jason Blake and Beau Maester were rucking.

Never mind the draft pick, McEvoy+Maister/Stanley is actually a better duo than McEvoy+Hickey atm.

You should've had a backup ruckman in 2012. That was another piece of inexplicable list management. Trading out of the first round wasn't the right way to rectify that issue IMO.

 

[Silvagnis]

Future stars Mock Draft had Lee going to Carlton with their first round pick.

Was another club chasing Tom Lee to force the Saints to do that trade?

Carlton didn't do that trade with Rogers a Menzel fan and saying you should draft your own players. If you want a mature forward, then you're better off recruiting one with a later pick. Would prefer Menzel and Sam Rowe (cancer free) than Lee and Wright. Some of our supporters still had meltdowns because we allegedly passed on Jordan Murdoch for Rowe.

I'll take it back if Lee goes on and becomes the next Kernahan who debuted at 23.

First round picks should be treated like gold in this era. Brock is playing good footy with no real in and under mids taken after Cunnington and before Fyfe, but hindsight would more than likely cancel that trade. Voss saved our bacon at the last minute.

 

[paul scholes]

Lot of clubs were linked to Lee.
The whole thread is a response to some blind optimism from one or two posters on Stkildas prospects.
They're paying the price for Lyon's all out assault on a flag.( just like my mob)
Watters and McCartney have been handed Footballs equivalent to the Greek economy.

 

[Saint Bostriots]

After 2010 Kosi held some trade value, spud or not.
Yet, he holds no trade value at the moment, which basically sums up what I've been trying to say.

Coming off playing in 2 grand finals, St Kilda players value was up.
With expansion sides coming in, this would've maximized their value.
Geelong and Collingwood were still the dominate sides in those years St Kilda played in grand finals.
Why didn't they prepare for the future?
I bet they are pondering that question.

Because as it stands, the bloke who they should've built a club around, in Brendon Goddard, he is gone - and the blokes they should've traded, they have no value and will all retire in the next couple of years.
Had St Kilda of thought ahead, planned for the future, then they'd have a bright future.
Instead, when Riewoldt, Montagna, Del Santo, Kosi retire, they'll be wooden spooners for many many years.

Did you only start watching football when Gold Coast were introduced into the comp?? Or are you just been taking the piss?

 

[St_Laz]

It wasn't 12 for lee, or 13 for hicky.
It was 12 for:
Lee
Pick 24 (nathan wright)
Pick 46 (josh Saunders)

13 for:
Hicky
Pick 25 (spencer white)

Are people intentionally ignoring that?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I've got to say it would be good to be Collingwood and have other clubs falling over themselves to pay overs for our spud players.

 

[I am Jack]

Did you only start watching football when Gold Coast were introduced into the comp?? Or are you just been taking the piss?

I shall revisit this post when your now veterans retire.
This is going to get messy for St Kilda.