St Kilda's Heart of Darkness?

[Lance Uppercut]

Wilson states that there is no suggestion that Fisher is facing any legal issues so there should be no recriminations from writing about them in the article.

If you think it's fair for a reporter to allude to negative, consequential behaviour, then it's most definitely fair to actually mention it, as alluding leads people to think wildly about rumours and they can overreach in their estimations.

Wilson could quite easily have written, "It is believed that Fisher has not been fully committed to his preparations for the upcoming 2013 preseason and has, at times, broken team rules by staying out late, partying at several of Melbourne's popular boutique nightclubs, overindulging in alcohol on his break, and putting himself in a situation of danger be being intoxicated in a public place. While St. Kilda management have officially denied any serious problems with Fisher, some St. Kilda players are concerned that a member of the leadership group not acting with the professionalism demanded of such a role may have an adverse effect on St. Kilda's younger players and new draftees."

She hasn't written it because she doesn't want to be locked out from emails from the club and in such a case, would actually have to leave her ivory tower on Collins St and get down to the clubs home bases to do her work.

So again, if it's important enough to be alluded to by gossip-mongerers, then it's important enough to be reported on factually.

edit: Lance Uppercut

"not facing any legal issues" is one thing. It doesn't necessarily preclude behaviours you wouldn't want reported. But I stress, I have no idea what these allegations are about.

I do get what you're saying, but I don't agree with you that you either have to outline everything you know or say nothing at all. I think you can paint a picture of what's going on without actually giving all the grisly details and embarrassing the player

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I'm struggling to see the connection between a messy personal relationship break-up and a football club's culture.

there's not, necessarily. But it's yet another example of anti-social behaviour from someone you might expect would be in a leadership position within the organisation. No?

 

[Fred]

there's not, necessarily. But it's yet another example of anti-social behaviour from someone you might expect would be in a leadership position within the organisation. No?

I've never even thought about who is or isn't in the leadership group so it's No.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I've never even thought about who is or isn't in the leadership group so it's No.

I don't think all your senior players need to be leaders, certainly not in name. But you need a core of solid citizens, surely. Have you had that? You have one of the best in the league in Lenny, no problems there. Personally I rate Riewoldt's leadership - others might not be so generous. But moving forwards, you've lost Goddard, and Hayes hasn't got long. Is there a leadership dearth at St Kilda do you think?

 

[Fred]

I don't think all your senior players need to be leaders, certainly not in name. But you need a core of solid citizens, surely. Have you had that? You have one of the best in the league in Lenny, no problems there. Personally I rate Riewoldt's leadership - others might not be so generous. But moving forwards, you've lost Goddard, and Hayes hasn't got long. Is there a leadership dearth at St Kilda do you think?

As I said, I don't concern myself with leadership. That's for those on the inside to judge.

 

[Defacto]

OP is overkilling it a bit but i think this is a direct result of the clubs actions in the past. i think st kilda's inability to manage a mini-crisis and the media helped portray this issue to a large extent. i mean how long did the club give journalists artistic licence to paint the kim duthie picture in what ever way they wanted. if the club handled this issue properly, when it first occured, there wouldnt have been such a shit storm. there were blatant lies and mistruths that were printed. this whole situation IMO was the final straw for AD and is the reason behind the growing AFL media arm. the herald sun being the key offender. since then the media has come back into line a fair bit but still has a long way to go.

the nz incident could also have been handled better.

i think the club has now addressed this with hiring key personnel who know how to handle these situations and the media. the change of coach and key changes in the football dept has also helped.

in regards to culture, its a bit of a beat up. have we had some "rogue" players in the past? yes. but to say this is solely a problem at st kilda is bullshit. all clubs have these players. what matters is how the clubs manage them, address the issues and protect the rest of the playing group.

under thomas/ross i think some instances were swept under the carpet. pelchen/watters seemed determined to lift the bar. there is a large emphasis on "mentoring" the younger playing group correctly. if senior players are not going to assist the club with this then they will quickly find them selves on the outer. these younger players are our future and were not going to let bad habits of senior players drag the younger players down.

i really dont see what the fuss is about. were moving in the right direction.

 

[Blackswan]

Something somthing Michael Hibberd knocks a man out cold and slaps around a woman, something, something dark side.

 

[Keys]

so you'd prefer them just to not say anything? I don't really get that personally. In this case, his place in the leadership place appears in jeopardy. Why? Because of some poor behaviour. But is it fair for a reporter to actually report that stuff? Or should they just not print the story? Really, they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If the rumours weren't alluded to, everyone on here would be banging on about it being a beat-up.

That article is no better than many posts on here and the fact it was written by the most senior football writer for the age is an indictment on the current standard of football journalism

If fisher has done something seriously wrong then say what it is without skirting around the issue and alluding to what might or might not have occurred. That she had to pad the article out with old stories about Martin and swan shows just how thin the story was and that its really just a beatup

 

[Lance Uppercut]

That article is no better than many posts on here and the fact it was written by the most senior football writer for the age is an indictment on the current standard of football journalism

If fisher has done something seriously wrong then say what it is without skirting around the issue and alluding to what might or might not have occurred. That she had to pad the article out with old stories about Martin and swan shows just how thin the story was and that its really just a beatup

so if Fisher is dumped from the leadership group, it's still a beatup?

 

[The Filth]

I hate discussions like this.

We are talking about footballers - not brain surgeons. I admired Millane and Didak with their skill playing football. Do I think they are great people or show good judgement? Not particularly.

I have met Milne - nice guy - spent time with my handicapped niece, signed her jumper, photo etc. Do I like that he "swapped partners" with Montagna which led to rape allegations - not particularly. Do I like that Didak hooned around in a car with a murderer - not particularly. I am not impressed with what I have privately heard about Swan and his activities either.

There are a lot of gifted players who only know how to kick a piece of leather around but are not smart. Some concentrate so much on football that their education and social skills suffer. Others cannot cope with the pressure of fame and money.

There are of course your Hirds, Buckleys, Hayes etc who are great players and blokes.

Singling out one club (...not yours of course!) belies the fact that every club has dickheads...if they can play the club will try to sort their problems out or cover them up. Culture?

 

[Defacto]

so if Fisher is dumped from the leadership group, it's still a beatup?

if he is. is that some damning point we should all be hung up on.

like wilsons article i am struggling to see what the OP is trying to achieve.

its not the players actions that matter, its how the club handles them. players come and go. but the club will stay.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

no-ones denying that every club has dickheads. My club might be about to draft one if reports are true. It's when you start to get patterns and repeated behaviour that it becomes something that might be considered outside the norm

 

[Defacto]

I hate discussions like this.

We are talking about footballers - not brain surgeons. I admired Millane and Didak with their skill playing football. Do I think they are great people or show good judgement? Not particularly.

I have met Milne - nice guy - spent time with my handicapped niece, signed her jumper, photo etc. Do I like that he "swapped partners" with Montagna which led to rape allegations - not particularly. Do I like that Didak hooned around in a car with a murderer - not particularly. I am not impressed with what I have privately heard about Swan and his activities either.

There are a lot of gifted players who only know how to kick a piece of leather around but are not smart. Some concentrate so much on football that their education and social skills suffer. Others cannot cope with the pressure of fame and money.

There are of course your Hirds, Buckleys, Hayes etc who are great players and blokes.

Singling out one club (...not yours of course!) belies the fact that every club has dickheads...if they can play the club will try to sort their problems out or cover them up. Culture?

this is probably the best post from a pie supporter i have seen. hats off to you mate. very level headed view.

all saints fans would agree. especially on the milne points.

 

[The Filth]

T

no-ones denying that every club has dickheads. My club might be about to draft one if reports are true. It's when you start to get patterns and repeated behaviour that it becomes something that might be considered outside the norm

..then what are you trying to achieve by this thread? Trying to rub a clubs nose in their own players problems for your own entertainment whilst pretending to act concerned?!

 

[Defacto]

no-ones denying that every club has dickheads. My club might be about to draft one if reports are true. It's when you start to get patterns and repeated behaviour that it becomes something that might be considered outside the norm

you mean patterns and repeated behavior that hit the press.... i am sure other clubs have issues that never see the light of day. lets remember west coast were squeaky clean for the best part of 10 years before it hit the media. then once it did hit the media in a big way, all the skeletons came out of the closet.

hell even the best example of club culture, sydney, i bet they have player issues. they just never hit the press and sydney is very quick to resolving them properly. if the player doesnt want to help fix the issue then theyre out.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Unless you intend to create a parable of a slow descent into madness through the form of a steam boat journey deep into the Congo in search of a lost captain whose gone insane and set himself up as a god to the locals, then I'm not sure you should use "Heart of Darkness"

 

[Lance Uppercut]

you mean patterns and repeated behavior that hit the press.... i am sure other clubs have issues that never see the light of day. lets remember west coast were squeaky clean for the best part of 10 years before it hit the media. then once it did hit the media in a big way, all the skeletons came out of the closet.

hell even the best example of club culture, sydney, i bet they have player issues. they just never hit the press and sydney is very quick to resolving them properly. if the player doesnt want to help fix the issue then theyre out.

you think Sydney have the same amount of issues St Kilda do, they just cover them up better?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Unless you intend to create a parable of a slow descent into madness through the form of a steam boat journey deep into the Congo in search of a lost captain whose gone insane and set himself up as a god to the locals, then I'm not sure you should use "Heart of Darkness"

Sounds like StKilda to me.

 

[The Filth]

you think Sydney have the same amount of issues St Kilda do, they just cover them up better?

I think that the Saints have less issues than you Lance..

 

[Plugger35]

Typical Caroline Wilson article based on speculation, innuendo and mistruths. For all we know Fisher might be left out of the leadership group due to reasons other than his off field behaviour but Caro has tried to make out that it's more than it is.

Fisher has always been a thorough professional on the field, if he partied it up during the off season and didn't break any laws and still plays good footy I couldn't really care less. It seems to be the way these days that AFL footballers can't even have a few drinks in public without the media jumping all over it and trying to beat it up into a scandal.

Fisher got whacked in the back of the head in a nightclub by some drunken moron a few years ago and the media went with the "Saints star involved in nightclub brawl" headline trying to insinuate it was Fisher's fault when he was just an innocent victim.

 

[Defacto]

you think Sydney have the same amount of issues St Kilda do, they just cover them up better?

i dont think you get it mate, that or youre trying to push an agenda

re-read what i posted

best summed up by "All clubs have issues, some are just better at stopping it from hitting the media"

so did the eagles circa 1995-2004 have a better culture than the saints? after all they barely hit the media....

 

[floki]

Story is Fischer is standing by Gram as a friend despite his problems (not being right in the head) and some people don't think it looks right and he should distance himself, guilt of **** knows what purely by association, doesn't matter he's got form, blah blah blah hype makes good copy it's the off season, C Wilson shits me to tears. i could go on and on

 

[Davo23]

"Heart of Darkness"?

What connection is there between St Kilda and a book by the great Joseph Conrad?


You ought to be strung up on the highest baobab tree ...

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

"Heart of Darkness"?

What connection is there between St Kilda and a book by the great Joseph Conrad?
..

Dysfunctional leadership?

 

[drummoyne]

One of the more vague articles I have seen in a while. Would have been good to have more concrete allegations - in its current form I think the article is quite useless (other than to generate speculation amongst the supporters).

If true it does surprise me I have always respected Fisher as a player - thought he portrayed a clean-cut professional image that the Saints really need right now.