St Kilda's Heart of Darkness?

[SBD Gonzalez]

you mean patterns and repeated behavior that hit the press.... i am sure other clubs have issues that never see the light of day. lets remember west coast were squeaky clean for the best part of 10 years before it hit the media. then once it did hit the media in a big way, all the skeletons came out of the closet.

hell even the best example of club culture, sydney, i bet they have player issues. they just never hit the press and sydney is very quick to resolving them properly. if the player doesnt want to help fix the issue then theyre out.

I guess we should all agree on what we're talking about here. Boys will be boys, of course. Does "culture" refer to how boys behave when left without guidance and discipline? Or does "culture" refer to how they behave within a group, e.g. a footy club, when some mentoring figures or some judiciously-applied discipline leads them to drop the less savoury aspects of their behaviour?

Do Sydney have fewer player issues* because they deal with them sensibly and sensitively before they get out of hand (in which case, hopefully some other clubs could learn from them) or simply because the administration manages the media better? (I know for a fact that some Sydney footy writers complain about how hard it is to get interviews with some Swans players, and when they do succeeded, how hard it then is is to get any of them to really open up. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?)

These are all points which need to be raised in discussing a subject like this. I for one think it's a valid question the OP raised, but some clarification of terms wouldn't go astray.

*Caveat: I am extremely proud of how my club is run, and how few instances it has had of bad behaviour from its players. But I'm not asking for any congrats here.

 

[dmc333]

It's frustrating to read articles about players up to no good when they'll never specify the no good they've been up to.

Penis in hand, but no stroke material.

 

[Higgs Boson]

What I've heard is very concerning

 

[aussierulesrules]

This has really come out of the blue, if any of it is true, because Sam Fisher would have been about the last one I would have thought we would hear this sort of stuff about. He is generally very quiet and has previously been extremely well respected at the club and was earlier in the season spoken about by Watters as one of three at the club who he believed were "captaincy material", along with Riewoldt and Lenny Hayes.

I would think that if it is true that he has been up to some "wild stuff" that he might have a serious problem of some sort, because that kind of thing seems to be completely against his nature.

 

[Keys]

so if Fisher is dumped from the leadership group, it's still a beatup?

If he is dumped from the leadership group then quite obviusly the article was correct but I would still be uncertain as to whether it was necessary and I would still be critical as to why she didn't reveal the nature of his behaviour.

What constitutes an indiscretion from a player these days also needs to be taken into account as these things are routinely blown out of proportion. We aren't told what Fisher's purported transgressions are other than that they are considered sufficient grounds to remove him from the leadership group but importantly there is no suggestion that he be disciplined further in terms of being suspended or fined by the club.

Does this mean he's been out drinking late on his time off and setting a poor example to the younger players and if so then maybe he isn't the right person to be considered a leader.

Is it really consdiered newsworthy? Maybe in Womans Day or New Idea but I wouldn't have thought you would be in their target market Lance or should I buy you a subscription for Christmas

 

[captain peanut]

Incorrect... he has one problem and it rhymes with thugs

He's part of a group of firebugs ?

 

[Schulzenfest]

If it was just the Milne & Montagna allegations, it could be put down to the individuals.
If it was just the 'St. Kilda schoolgirl' episode involving Gilbert, Riewoldt and Dal Santo, it could be put down to the individuals.
If it was just the Andrew Lovett saga, it could be put down to the individuals.
If it was just Zac Dawson, Rhys Stanley and whoever the other two were misusing medication, it could be put down to the individuals.
If it was just Jason Gram having allegations of stalking levelled at him, it could be put down to the individual.
If it was just Sam Fisher's 'controversial behaviour', whatever that means, it could be put down to the individual.

But when all of those things happen at the same club, it starts to look like there's something weird going on at the club. If it's nothing to do with the culture, then it's a hell of a coincidence.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Incorrect... he has one problem and it rhymes with thugs

He likes hugs?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

He likes hugs?

He collects Persian rugs?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Incorrect... he has one problem and it rhymes with thugs

Hair plugs?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Guerra is no longer at StKilda. Wont be that.

 

[sosos]

Growing man-jugs?

 

[Tedeski]

This has really come out of the blue, if any of it is true, because Sam Fisher would have been about the last one I would have thought we would hear this sort of stuff about. He is generally very quiet and has previously been extremely well respected at the club and was earlier in the season spoken about by Watters as one of three at the club who he believed were "captaincy material", along with Riewoldt and Lenny Hayes.

I would think that if it is true that he has been up to some "wild stuff" that he might have a serious problem of some sort, because that kind of thing seems to be completely against his nature.

If true, it is very sad because you're right, he is a good fella. These guys just mix with the wrong people. I hope this is all not true because I enjoyed watching him play & he is nearing the end of his career. No way he would want to finish on this note.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

What a troll of a thread. Look at every team in the league and at some time they have had a player do the wrong thing.

And as for the current beat up story. If there was any substance, any allegation, any scandal, why wasn't it detailed, outlined, or even hinted at. This is a pathetic thread, following an equally tacky pathetic article.

 

[bombermick]

The Saints clearly have issues, even if they're working to improve the club.

Former ratbags in Guerra and Dawson have gone to other clubs and cleaned up their act. Other clubs have their problem children (Swan, Martin etc), but there's no suggestion those clubs have culture issues.

 

[Bollox]

You just dont dump guys from the leadership group that have a handicap less than 3
Thats just wrong.

Besides...about 10 clubs would be forming a queue to offer him a last 2-3 yr contract. Come to papa.

"Controversial behaviour" ???...FFS lets make them all visit confessional before each preseason starts and tell them to kiss 10 babies a day as punishment for having fun.
Doubt he'd even giveashit if he was "dumped" from the leadership group.

This whole "culture" thing is becoming just a convenient intangible that fans and the press can use as a big rubber dildo to attack a club with. No club is immune...its like some sort of race to be sweet as mums apple pie.

 

[Higgs Boson]

Note that as a Melbourne supporter, you gladly rush forward to try and revel in alleged misfortunes of others.

You may wish to be more circumspect coming from the moral cesspit that is Melbourne. At least Adelaide has come clean admitted that they operated outside the rules and have given themselves a two pick punishment from the draft, whilst awaiting judgement from the AFL.

If you are such a fan of the high ground, you should be pushing for Melbourne to admit capability and take your punishment from the AFL.

Wait I didn't think this thread was about Melbourne?

 

[Defacto]

Haha u mad, imagine how much more pissed off you'd be if you were a Saints supporter!

Wait wat?

difference between melbourne and st kilda. we remove a player from the leadership group for hitting the piss and god knows what else a bit too hard. melbourne on the other hand makes those players captain.

theres a reason why you havent played finals for so long....

 

[Blood Bath]

The Saints clearly have issues, even if they're working to improve the club.

Former ratbags in Guerra and Dawson have gone to other clubs and cleaned up their act. Other clubs have their problem children (Swan, Martin etc), but there's no suggestion those clubs have culture issues.

why because they have tatts?

 

[Higgs Boson]

difference between melbourne and st kilda. we remove a player from the leadership group for hitting the piss and god knows what else a bit too hard. melbourne on the other hands makes those players captain.

theres a reason why you havent played finals for so long....

That doesn't even make sense

 

[Sunshine Saint]

This whole "culture" thing is becoming just a convenient intangible that fans and the press can use as a big rubber dildo to attack a club with. No club is immune...its like some sort of race to be sweet as mums apple pie.

Cheap shots from ill informed and lazy journalists and troll posters, use culture as their chant of displeasure with a club, whether it be Saints, West Coast, Carlton etc etc etc

This is the same, lack of substance allegation, that is thrown around by Federal politicians, when they accuse all who oppose them, of being a misogynist. This is to divert others from their own failures, scandals and incompetence.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

That doesn't even make sense

Laughable that as the moral guardian on here, you choose Bill Clinton for your avatar? Womanising, drinking and morals are attributes that you admire lol?

 

[le dominateur]

Fisher seems like one of few likeable Saints players, maybe he got sick of the male bonding sessions.

 

[Higgs Boson]

Laughable that as the moral guardian on here, you choose Bill Clinton for your avatar? Womanising, drinking and morals are attributes that you admire lol?

Pretty much, Clinton had it going on

But I don't think I've ever held myself up as a paragon of virtue. You seem defensive?

"Culture" is one of those Bigfooty memes that has taken on a life of it's own, so evolved that it's more likely to be used in an ironic sense than anything else in more recent times. After all, it's a pretty nebulous term to describe the inner workings of a football club, and most of us would be loathe to think that our club does in fact have a culture problem.

...

The question has to be asked, is the consistent and on-going "episodes" at St Kilda a problem? The apparent inability of the Saints to get through an off-season without some scandal or other is really quite bizarre.

I am particularly interested in the opinions of Saints fans on this. Without being flippant, do you think your club has a "culture" problem, or is it all a media beat-up? Please, no cheap shots.

What is going on with St Kilda?

On topic, it is interesting that St Kilda have, for generations, had that party boy culture. Not all players, sure, not even a majority. But it's just something that has stayed with the club. Back in the 80s, you could have put it down to the state St Kilda were in on-field -- not surprising you'd prioritise having fun off-field a little too high. You can't say that about St Kilda now, because they've genuinely been a good, respectable on-field unit for a long time now. And then you look at the Dogs. Same history of just not quite achieving, but they've never quite been the same. So I think you can discard a history of failure as the rationale.

Interesting though.

 

[seanoff]

why because they have tatts?

No, it's not because they have tatts.

Richmond have genuine concerns about Martin and the company he keeps. Swan, seems to have compatibility issues with his coach.