Movie Star Wars III

[weevil]

He says to Anakin that he will soon witness the treachery of the Jedi. This is very starighforward. Palpatine knows the time is close to him revealing himself as a Sith. When this does happen, he knows the Jedi will try to kill him. He obviously doesn't know exactly when or who will attack him, but he knows the Jedi will come and get him once his identity is revelaed. And he will use this attack (whenver it happens) as "evidence" of the treachery of the Jedi.

Yeah, but he has meticulously planed and executed a myriad of other massively more complex schemes and manipulations throughout the entire series. But even though nearly every single one of those worked perfectly for him you are arguing that it’s just sheer golly gosh, dumb good luck that this time Anakin’s arrival is timed to the absolute perfect split-second.

The Sith are way more sensitive to ‘presence’ than the Jedi and Palpatine has spent years developing a special relationship with Anakin, He could sense that he was in danger even when he was millions of miles away. Given that I find it impossible to believe that Anakin could be in the other room without Palps feeling it.

He doesn't "conveniently" lose his sabre. Mace forces him to lose it. The novel says this, the script says it, and it is clear as day in the film (which I have seen three times.)

It is indisputable that Mace is forced backwards into the window room. At one point in the fight Mace is also caught completely exposed with his arms stretched out and Palps sabre over his chest. Hangs there for a couple of seconds and the look on Mace’s face says that he is toast. But inexplicably Palps does not put him away. The script also says that Palps forces Mace out on the ledge.

And then what do you know, the split second before Anakin walks into the office, his friend becomes defenceless in front of a very aggressive Jedi.

...An early draft of GL’s script spells out that while Mace put up a good fight, Palps was stronger.

You don't seem to understand the reasons behin Anakin's choice. Anakin wants Palpatine alive to save his wife. It has nothing to do with the jedi "treachery." Nothing! Anakin says: "What have I done?" upon killing Mace, knowing he has done the wrong thing. He says to Palpatine, "I can't live without her"

When Anakin rushes off to Palpatines quarters, we hear Palpatine's voice saying: "Keeping me alive is the only way he can stop his wife from certain death". Palatine's act (after he was already beaten) is one of desperation. Anakin knows the choice is wrong, and says as much, but he does it anyway to save his wife. Palaptine's act (while beaten by Windu in the corner) does not influene Anakin. Essentially he has already made his choice, and Palaptine didn't need to "act" for him to make it. He wants to save Padme from certain death.

The fact that you don't seem to understand this, shows you are missing the whole point of the scene. It is vital that you understand it.

The fact is that GL himself has -explicitly- stated that Anakin turns for a number of reasons shows that you don’t understand the scene...Virtually all of those reasons have been perfectly choreographed by Palps. The fight with Mace is just another one of them.

The Yoda/Palpatine duel is 50-50 at best. Look at the fear in Palaptine as Yoda hurls the spinning Senate Pod at him. Palpatine's strength is his mind manipulations. Yoda has to desert the fight because, whilst he can match it with the Emperor, he can't possibly beat the Emperor plus the full resources of the Empire

I don’t really have too much of an opinion on that other than I generally think that Yoda > Mace. Also there is no one else in the chamber when Yoda flees. First thing he says when he gets out is that he has failed.


Look mate, it’s been fun but I’m getting a bit bored with this topic now and I am sure you are too. GL is totally inconsistent with so many things. In reality I think both interpretations could be valid...Besides I’m positive George will make a special edition, and just before Mace tries to kill Palps, Greedo will spring from out of nowhere and shoot him first.

...The real question is ‘Do Chewie and Obi-Wan know each other when they meet in the Cantina in Mos Isley?’

 

[Magpiespower]

You ain't gonna like this but:
1. The opening of the movie, where the story is introduced, left me feeling bored; it was written in a childish manner and failed to excite.
2. Acting: very wooden, mostly. Ewan McGregor tries to look serious but can't carry it off; Hayden C can't act at all & is not convincing; Natalie P actually tries too hard and looks far from natural. Some of you 15 year-olds might think she's cute but that's why she's in the movie.
3. Dialogue: very contrived and unimaginative.
4. Story: very sketchy, too heavy on the politics, implausible...
5. Special effects: incredibly involved and complex, which is the film's main downfall. Usual USA garbage, where the Yanks never heard of Overkill...and boy does ol' Georgie boy go overboard on this one !!! Far too detailed and intricate, and what little story there is, is totally swamped by CG and digital composites.
Overall, I found it as uninteresting as the first 2 movies. My two sons absolutely loved it because of the action and the effects.
So it naturally appeals to certain age groups, and in that respect, it wins.
But I hated it.

Agree with all that.

Another aerial dogfight, another lightsaber duel, more ethereal mumbo-jumbo...

Anyone else get the feeling we've seen the same movie six times over?

 

[weevil]

Agree with all that.

Another aerial dogfight, another lightsaber duel, more ethereal mumbo-jumbo...

Anyone else get the feeling we've seen the same movie six times over?

...Yeah, it’s almost like they were all made by the same guy and were all about the one story or something...

 

[The Legend]

37 odd in Ep III.

That's what you'd imagine. There are 32 years between TPM (where I guess he would be either very late-teen, or early twenty-something) and ANH. And 20 years between ROTS and ANH. Perhaps he's meant to be older than he looks. Or, perhaps some nonsense occurs in the 100 episode series that is planned. In any case, he sure aged alot in 20 years. Maybe it is a result of living on a planet with two Suns.

 

[Thrawn]

We KNOW Palaptine is legitmately beaten, because he MUST be for the drama of the scene to work, in a theatrical sense.

Dan, how the scene will work or not in a theatrical sense is IRRELEVANT. We are suspending disbelief, as we are only talking about the fight in context of the scenes we see in the movie. Everything else is ignored. Including the drama bit, because what are we talking about again?

Apart from other points stated on this thread, the fact that Palpatine owns three jedi masters in quick time and breaks even with Yoda - it pretty obviously Palpy faked it 1v1 vs Windu. All the indicators point to it, either you are ignoring these or you refuse to acknowledge them.

 

[weevil]

Apart from other points stated on this thread, the fact that Palpatine owns three jedi masters in quick time and breaks even with Yoda - it pretty obviously Palpy faked it 1v1 vs Windu. All the indicators point to it, either you are ignoring these or you refuse to acknowledge them.

...Actually I just had one other thought.

The prophecy says that Anakin is the chosen one, the only one who can bring balance to the force.

I don’t think anyone else could actually defeat Sidious.

That is why Yoda leaves, he came to kill Sidious but he realises he can’t.

 

[Thrawn]

That is why Yoda leaves, he came to kill Sidious but he realises he can’t.

Yup. The only reason he came to Coruscant in the first place was to put an end to this, with full intention of defeating/killing Palpatine. He failed because Palpy was more powerful than he thought, and probably sticking around wouldn't be too wise because no one had a decisive advantage, not to mention an entire clone army looking for other jedi probably coming his way.

Look at the fear in Palaptine as Yoda hurls the spinning Senate Pod at him

And ... ? Does that mean Yoda was kicking arse? Neither had a clear advantage, but he did rip Yoda's lightsabre away with lightning (even more evidence that he was faking it with Windu).

 

[Mr Crow!]

By the way, if you want to learn 100% everything about the Star Wars saga, including the Expanded Universe, check out:

http://www.theforce.net/timetales

I co-author the document.

 

[Thrawn]

Don't need to, I own most of those novels/comics, especially the ones after ROTJ. I wonder how Windu would fair with Palpatine DE version.

 

[Mr Crow!]

Not only was Palpatine more powerfull in Dark Empire, but as his clone form, he was a lot younger, healthier, stronger as well!

Do you visit TF.N much?

 

[sp-mac]

I saw it, was very good.

A question.

Are all the storm troopers in the original films (eps IV-VI) the clones from eps I-III and does that mean that all storm troopers are clones of Boba Fetts dad?

OMG I'm discussing Star Wars on the web. My sister was right.

 

[manureid]

Don't need to, I own most of those novels/comics, especially the ones after ROTJ. I wonder how Windu would fair with Palpatine DE version.

I also own quite a few of the novels. Currently re-reading a few. Onto Shadows of the Empire at the moment.

Just finished re-reading all about your good self Thrawn!

I must admit to falling out of the novel loop when the new jedi order series started as I looked at the god knows how many Star Wars novels on my bookshelf and thought "Can I continue on........?". But recently the love has been renewed (hence the re-reading), and I have heard some good reports on the new series.

What is your take on it Thrawn (or others reading)?

 

[Thrawn]

What is your take on it Thrawn (or others reading)?

Personally, I loved the NJO because it was something different. Unlike the Bantham novels where the "good guys" keep on winning battle after battle, you finally get to see that they are no invincible from the actions surrounding them and not everything turns out perfect.

There are 21 books in total IIRC, some of them bad, a lot of them good. Best one out of the lot is Star by Star, probably the best SW book that's ever been written. That's in the middle of the series though, and it's a long book. You'll enjoy it.

 

[Gasometer]

What is the moral debate in terms of the 'force' of Obi Wan not pulling Anakin up out of the lava embankment?

Gaso

 

[Thrawn]

Are all the storm troopers in the original films (eps IV-VI) the clones from eps I-III and does that mean that all storm troopers are clones of Boba Fetts dad?

Nope, pretty soon they get recruiting and conscripting. As much as the clones in numbers were, you still can't maintain an iron grip on a galaxy with such little numbers.

 

[Thrawn]

Do you visit TF.N much?

I've been there in the past, but don't visit much. Take a glace from time to time though.

 

[Magpiespower]

...Yeah, it’s almost like they were all made by the same guy

Not entirely true.

and were all about the one story or something...

But they're not, despite all the spin.

The original trilogy is clearly Luke's story.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Yeah, but he has meticulously planed and executed a myriad of other massively more complex schemes and manipulations throughout the entire series. But even though nearly every single one of those worked perfectly for him you are arguing that it’s just sheer golly gosh, dumb good luck that this time Anakin’s arrival is timed to the absolute perfect split-second.

The Sith are way more sensitive to ‘presence’ than the Jedi and Palpatine has spent years developing a special relationship with Anakin, He could sense that he was in danger even when he was millions of miles away. Given that I find it impossible to believe that Anakin could be in the other room without Palps feeling it.



It is indisputable that Mace is forced backwards into the window room. At one point in the fight Mace is also caught completely exposed with his arms stretched out and Palps sabre over his chest. Hangs there for a couple of seconds and the look on Mace’s face says that he is toast. But inexplicably Palps does not put him away. The script also says that Palps forces Mace out on the ledge.

And then what do you know, the split second before Anakin walks into the office, his friend becomes defenceless in front of a very aggressive Jedi.

...An early draft of GL’s script spells out that while Mace put up a good fight, Palps was stronger.


The fact is that GL himself has -explicitly- stated that Anakin turns for a number of reasons shows that you don’t understand the scene...Virtually all of those reasons have been perfectly choreographed by Palps. The fight with Mace is just another one of them.



I don’t really have too much of an opinion on that other than I generally think that Yoda > Mace. Also there is no one else in the chamber when Yoda flees. First thing he says when he gets out is that he has failed.


Look mate, it’s been fun but I’m getting a bit bored with this topic now and I am sure you are too. GL is totally inconsistent with so many things. In reality I think both interpretations could be valid...Besides I’m positive George will make a special edition, and just before Mace tries to kill Palps, Greedo will spring from out of nowhere and shoot him first.

...The real question is ‘Do Chewie and Obi-Wan know each other when they meet in the Cantina in Mos Isley?’

Well thought out and expressed response, Weevil. I'm glad it was you, not me. Was considering yet another response, but I have already wasted about as much intellectual effort as I am inclined to on this guy (plus he never responded to my last one...just waffled on about irrelevancies).I

 

[celtic_pride]

You should see the arguments on the Force.net about this same issue.

 

[Mr Crow!]

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com is reporting that Matthew Newton is going to potentially be in the forthcoming Star Wars TV series.

What do you think of the prospect of the son of "Moon Face" being in Star Wars?

 

[GFC MAD!]

just a question - do C3PO and R2D2 get their memory erased in this film?

 

[Mr Crow!]

I have been acknowledged in three NJO novels. And in an Essential Guide.

 

[Tim the Toolman]

does that make you king nerd of the bigfooty site?

Congratulations (on being in the novels, not about the abovementioned dig)!

 

[Arden]

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com is reporting that Matthew Newton is going to potentially be in the forthcoming Star Wars TV series.

What do you think of the prospect of the son of "Moon Face" being in Star Wars?

But I think he's just going to be in the background as an Endor moon.

 

[Moti]

You ain't gonna like this but:
1. The opening of the movie, where the story is introduced, left me feeling bored; it was written in a childish manner and failed to excite.
2. Acting: very wooden, mostly. Ewan McGregor tries to look serious but can't carry it off; Hayden C can't act at all & is not convincing; Natalie P actually tries too hard and looks far from natural. Some of you 15 year-olds might think she's cute but that's why she's in the movie.
3. Dialogue: very contrived and unimaginative.
4. Story: very sketchy, too heavy on the politics, implausible...
5. Special effects: incredibly involved and complex, which is the film's main downfall. Usual USA garbage, where the Yanks never heard of Overkill...and boy does ol' Georgie boy go overboard on this one !!! Far too detailed and intricate, and what little story there is, is totally swamped by CG and digital composites.
Overall, I found it as uninteresting as the first 2 movies. My two sons absolutely loved it because of the action and the effects.
So it naturally appeals to certain age groups, and in that respect, it wins.
But I hated it.

You don't write for the Age do you?

I'll take it one at a time:

1. A friend of mine who is a huge SW fan thought it was just OK while most others loved it. For the story, it displayed many of the advancements in both Anakin and Obi Wan and set up to a large degree the vaious character traits that would later surface. Having seen the film 4 times, you have to see it at least twice to get the full effect.

2.If this film didn't have the name Star Wars, it would make a lot less money but receive a lot more kudos. The acting could not be more effective. Apart from 2 scenes with Anakin and Padme and 1 or 2 lines from Mace, the acting was pretty much perfection to the characters. The dialogue in all the key scenes is perfect and the Ani, Padme, Obi Wan dialogue at the end of the film is very powerful. Palpatine displayed an incredible grasp of the character, portaying all aspects of the personality, flowing through seriousness, persuasive talk and the keys of story telling.

3. Again, can't see it. Although I agree it was contrived, funnily enough because someone wrote it! (he he). Anyway, apart from the deplorable balcony scene (funnily enough written by a great English playwrite) the rest flows brilliantly. There has never been a film that has had 100% perfect dialogue and this isn't any different.

4. Obviously didn't pay attention during much of the movie as the politics was virtually non-existant. The story was very complex and due to the pacing of the film, would be deemed to much rather than not enough.

5. Best ever Special Effects for 1. Second, your true colours come out. The second someone mentions USA drivel, I know they read the Age and think that a film about a minisucle painter from the 1920's and their fascination with daffodils is the idea of a perfect summer flick. As for swamping the story, the story is played out very much outside the CGI in most cases, which was done very well. Also, the CGI actually assisted the story by creating the back drop this time rather than the meat of the story. Many were suprised that the Battle Scene at the start wasn't more involving, but I for one loved the fact that the battle was actually the mechanism for furthering the story by showing the friendship between Obi Wan and Anakin, the manipulation of Palpatine plus how far his hooks were into Anakin, the final demise of Dooku and the continual downfall of Anakin, displaying his ability to be manipulated when making a choice.

But overall, it is your opinion to have and as much as I enjoyed it, it is obvious you did not. All I ask of anyone as a film maker myself, is to enter a movie without as much baggage as you can (which is hard to do) and judge the work on its merit. For me, this film was not long enough, and knowing plenty of the crew of the film, the DVD should provide at least 30 minutes of very pleasing footage including some political dealings that were left out, Yoda on dagobah, the Gui Gon after life scene plus Mon Mothma and other characters we heard of before the release.

Ultimately, this is easily the most dramatic of all the SW films and with 4 and 5, easily one of my favourites. 2 AND 6 close behind, 1 a distant memory with only the flash of light sabers and a car race to keep me company.

Everyone, see this great film and spend 2 hours and 20 minutes being entertained as one should when the lights go down.