-
AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Moved Thread Survey reveals West Coast's home ground umpiring advantage..
- Thread starter Sprout
- Start date
- Tagged users None
I would be interested to know how many SA umps have umpired Crows games over the last 5 years?
- Banned
- #53
Why is it everytime the non victorian teams start to dominate the victorian media starts pulling out statistics, they start with their non victorian crap and generally act like petulant little children.
Victorians must make up their mind, do they want their code to grow or do they just want it to be a exclusively victorian game? They can't keep going with this silly arrogance that we interstaters have to conform to their ways in regards toAVFL.
This happened 7 years ago when interstate teams were dominating.
Victorians must make up their mind, do they want their code to grow or do they just want it to be a exclusively victorian game? They can't keep going with this silly arrogance that we interstaters have to conform to their ways in regards to
This happened 7 years ago when interstate teams were dominating.
If you read this snippet from Wiki that Luke Darcy found it will explain the free kick discrepancy. I posted this previously in a thread about Luke Darcy WCE facts but I think you will find the back story to how WCE can control the umpires fascinating reading. (warning: long post)
John "The Chemist" Worsfold (born 25th September 1968)
AFL Football Career: played 209 games for West Coast Eagles, won 2 premierships
AFL Coaching Career: current coach West Coast Eagles, won 1 premiership
Although John had an illustrious AFL playing and coaching career, he will go down in history as the creator of both a new generation of nano technology psychotropic mind control drugs and a revolutionary delivery system for these.
In Early in 2010, when it was becoming apparent that his AFL team were destined to fall to their worst ever season finish, John dedicated himself to finding a solution to his teams' woes. Being a man of science, John went back to the laboratory, and with the permission of the WCE board of directors began to experiment with chemical mind control as a means to garner self belief and a sense of invincibility into his young side. Once John had some success with mice his testing phase moved to human volunteers, and former club champion Ben Cousins bravely offered his own self as a human guineapig. The subsequent success of this phase has been well noted in both the media and by the Cousins family in their own documentary. The success of Worsfold's new drug was apparent in the 2011 AFL season.
Like all good scientists, John wasn't content to rest on his laurels. He then decided to develop his psychotropics one step further and incorporate the control of the umpires and the opposition to ensure the outcomes of his games. He went back to the lab to develop his now world famous nano delivery system. In his work as a chemist, Worsfold studied common everyday viruses, in particular cold and flu virus, and how they spread rapidly through a selected population through casual contact such as shaking hands. Worsfold used this knowledge to develop the nano sytem by where his mind control psychotropic drugs are delivered via a simple handshake. Worsfold coated the hands of his Captain Darren Glass with the the nano drugs. Once Glass shakes hands with the opposition captain and the umpires the drugs quickly take effect. The umpires are under his control. The opposition captain takes the drugs back to his huddle, and by quarter time the opposition are also starting to feel the effects.
The unique symbiotic relationship John has with his homecrowd is also something to note. Each member of the West Coast Eagles football club willingly bring along signs or scarves that contain subliminal messages that interplay with the psychotropic drugs to induce a losing frame of mind. Phrases such as "House of Pain" "Tackle the Head" and "Pay that Free" flash constantly around the ground, and research proves the effectiveness of these tactics by the sheer number of free kicks paid. John has also had some success with this at away games when large numbers of dedicated West Coast Eagles fans travel to the game to continue with their subliminal agenda.
John "The Chemist" Worsfold (born 25th September 1968)
AFL Football Career: played 209 games for West Coast Eagles, won 2 premierships
AFL Coaching Career: current coach West Coast Eagles, won 1 premiership
Although John had an illustrious AFL playing and coaching career, he will go down in history as the creator of both a new generation of nano technology psychotropic mind control drugs and a revolutionary delivery system for these.
In Early in 2010, when it was becoming apparent that his AFL team were destined to fall to their worst ever season finish, John dedicated himself to finding a solution to his teams' woes. Being a man of science, John went back to the laboratory, and with the permission of the WCE board of directors began to experiment with chemical mind control as a means to garner self belief and a sense of invincibility into his young side. Once John had some success with mice his testing phase moved to human volunteers, and former club champion Ben Cousins bravely offered his own self as a human guineapig. The subsequent success of this phase has been well noted in both the media and by the Cousins family in their own documentary. The success of Worsfold's new drug was apparent in the 2011 AFL season.
Like all good scientists, John wasn't content to rest on his laurels. He then decided to develop his psychotropics one step further and incorporate the control of the umpires and the opposition to ensure the outcomes of his games. He went back to the lab to develop his now world famous nano delivery system. In his work as a chemist, Worsfold studied common everyday viruses, in particular cold and flu virus, and how they spread rapidly through a selected population through casual contact such as shaking hands. Worsfold used this knowledge to develop the nano sytem by where his mind control psychotropic drugs are delivered via a simple handshake. Worsfold coated the hands of his Captain Darren Glass with the the nano drugs. Once Glass shakes hands with the opposition captain and the umpires the drugs quickly take effect. The umpires are under his control. The opposition captain takes the drugs back to his huddle, and by quarter time the opposition are also starting to feel the effects.
The unique symbiotic relationship John has with his homecrowd is also something to note. Each member of the West Coast Eagles football club willingly bring along signs or scarves that contain subliminal messages that interplay with the psychotropic drugs to induce a losing frame of mind. Phrases such as "House of Pain" "Tackle the Head" and "Pay that Free" flash constantly around the ground, and research proves the effectiveness of these tactics by the sheer number of free kicks paid. John has also had some success with this at away games when large numbers of dedicated West Coast Eagles fans travel to the game to continue with their subliminal agenda.
This survey proves that Vic teams resort to dirty tactics to try and win games away from home.
For shame.
But seriously, there really isn't much of a difference between WA and non-WA umps at Subi (10.1/5.2 v 8.8/5.9 - about 2 kicks) and I think the high differential (as opposed to matches in Vic) is largely the fact that Subi more often than not is packed out with 95% home team fans, which takes its toll on even the most equitable of umps. This is not the case with games against interstate teams in Vic where the stadiums are never full and interstate fans make up more than 5% (maybe 10-15%?).
I know I have gone to Melbourne to watch my team travel and catch 1-2 other games as a neutral, but I doubt many Vics would come see their team play over in Perth.
For shame.
But seriously, there really isn't much of a difference between WA and non-WA umps at Subi (10.1/5.2 v 8.8/5.9 - about 2 kicks) and I think the high differential (as opposed to matches in Vic) is largely the fact that Subi more often than not is packed out with 95% home team fans, which takes its toll on even the most equitable of umps. This is not the case with games against interstate teams in Vic where the stadiums are never full and interstate fans make up more than 5% (maybe 10-15%?).
I know I have gone to Melbourne to watch my team travel and catch 1-2 other games as a neutral, but I doubt many Vics would come see their team play over in Perth.
- Apr 3, 2006
- 34,528
- 13,266
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Yeah that's great, but even the non-Wa ump diff is too high, the WA ump one is just ridiculous. Compare it to the Vic numbers and it's huge, considering Vic home teams actually get negative diff from interstate umps too.
bombermick
Norm Smith Medallist
If you create a cauldron where opposition supporters are nowhere to be seen, then of course there will be pressure to favour the home side. Surely the have a mix of home and away umpires for each match??
I'll have to look up the figures for Essendon games at the Dome compared to other grounds, to see if there's a similar discrepancy caused by the crowd.
I'll have to look up the figures for Essendon games at the Dome compared to other grounds, to see if there's a similar discrepancy caused by the crowd.
Are you denying that you have received more free kicks?
Doris and I are in complete agreement. I think this is a first. Somebody send a west Australian umpire to the middle east now.
Notice that too. Everytime an interstate teams looks the goods suddenly there is 'controversy'.
Sydney with their 'ugly' play.
Brisbane with their bigger salary cap
WC are now 'cheating.'
Same ole' same ole'
- Apr 3, 2006
- 34,528
- 13,266
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Why does no Eagle supporter address these numbers? Don't give me 'the difference between the WA umps and the interstate umps is not that much' when they are both way too high.
Ghost of Grinter
Cancelled
- Aug 2, 2009
- 1,133
- 249
- AFL Club
- Melbourne
We dont need a survey to confirm what we all know.
Opposition supporters see it through their own eyes everytime
they fly West, been slowly getting worse since 2008 IMO.
Hell, West Coast players are even allowed to throw the ball thesedays,
if thats not an advantage - then I dont know what is!
Opposition supporters see it through their own eyes everytime
they fly West, been slowly getting worse since 2008 IMO.
Hell, West Coast players are even allowed to throw the ball thesedays,
if thats not an advantage - then I dont know what is!
Because it's way easier to propose a Victorian conspiracy to destabilise the Eagles than to address the actual issue which is about umpiring and not about the Eagles.
Keep your skirt on. WCE supporters aren't addressing this because we don't need to*. Supporters are not issuing the free kicks. Supporters may be influencing the kicks but not giving them so maybe other teams can study the WCE Supporters Model for Free Kick Inducement.
(*unless our cheer squad is holding the umpires nearest and dearest at gunpoint week in week out, then it may be our fault.)
We want our code to grow, AND we want a fair go from umps when our teams go over there to play. Not really that difficult, or too much to expect I wouldn't have thought. The umps adjudicate to please the crowd over there, absolutely no question about it whatsoever. Unfortunately it's always been that way and probably won't change in a hurry. Umpies are human and when you have a parochial, 40,000 strong crowd who want the free kick count to be 100-0 every week howling at you it's gotta have an effect.
Dagless
Hall of Famer
Because there's legimitately nothing Eagles fans can or should do about it. Why are the Eagles the target in all of this when the team, players, fans have little to no direct control over what the umpires do in a game. Sure they have some indirect control by 'suggesting' free kicks be paid (Which is common in every single game that has a majority of fans from one club. You hear the cries all the time in Geelong games, Donners games vs interstate teams etc), but the umpires should be better than that.
The problem is, rather than a title such as 'Survey suggests umpires favour certain teams, possibly based on x variable (Home ground)' and using the EAgles as an example, it becomes a direct attack at the Eagles rather than the umps.
As well as this, it only became a problem worth tackling when the Eagles are winning. Positive free differential didn't have any impact on results in the last 5-6 years when we were shit or had a dominating midfield (Which would be the reason for Ws) but all of a sudden, bang, it's one of the sole causes for their rise back to the top.
Or as Quinz says...
Home state umpire v interstate umpire 'swing' by state
SA umpires pay 2.3 free kicks more to SA teams vs interstate umpires in SA
WA 2
Vic 1.5
Please point out the startling statistical discrepancy?
"The AFL has refused to address startling statistics..." Oh man.
Walter Sobchak
Senior List
- Jun 25, 2012
- 296
- 571
- AFL Club
- Richmond
The vast majority of Victorians would much rather an interstate club do well than a Collingwood or Carlton
- Banned
- #70
Well we all know this
Would have meant more had Quinz not screwed up the stats to show a .5 difference when it's actually a 3.5 difference.
Dagless
Hall of Famer
Who said I was referring to the Vic stat
- Apr 3, 2006
- 34,528
- 13,266
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Then why all the conspiracy alien nonsense?
So this issue can only be discussed when the Eagles are bad?
Quinz has missed the point completely.
Just had a quick look at our free stats. Both home and away we've had games where we've got more or less. The spread is more random. Lost the free count to Adelaide at home by 6, got more frees against Essendon by 10 in simlar sorts of games.
Drew the free count at home against Brisbane when we were all over them all day, drew it away against St Kilda.
Have had 12 more frees for than against, which is largely the Essendon game.
Doesn't seem as consistent as the way the Eagles are umpired.
Drew the free count at home against Brisbane when we were all over them all day, drew it away against St Kilda.
Have had 12 more frees for than against, which is largely the Essendon game.
Doesn't seem as consistent as the way the Eagles are umpired.
There is no deliberate bias from the umpires and suggestions otherwise are rubbish. I would be willing to bet that if a more wide spread study was to be initiated that SA teams also have a favorable free kick count at home as would the Vic sides vs interstate sides at home. Bet Geelong has gets a pretty good run at Kardinia park to.
It all comes back to crowd noise IMO. If there is 50/50 call and the crowd shouts the umpire is likely to react to the crowd. If anything they are picking up free kicks they otherwise might have missed. Cox is normally one of the top receivers of free kicks in the league. At home when he's infringed on the crowd lets the umpires know about it which causes them to take notice. Against Collingwood on the weekend when playing forward Cox had his arms chopped at least 4 times that I saw and never received a free most likely because the umpire could not clearly see the contest. But I bet if the crowd was roaring for a free kick the whistle might of blown.
It's a tough job and the umpires are only human and have to make the calls they make in a split second. It's not right and it's not wrong that this happens it just is what it is.
It all comes back to crowd noise IMO. If there is 50/50 call and the crowd shouts the umpire is likely to react to the crowd. If anything they are picking up free kicks they otherwise might have missed. Cox is normally one of the top receivers of free kicks in the league. At home when he's infringed on the crowd lets the umpires know about it which causes them to take notice. Against Collingwood on the weekend when playing forward Cox had his arms chopped at least 4 times that I saw and never received a free most likely because the umpire could not clearly see the contest. But I bet if the crowd was roaring for a free kick the whistle might of blown.
It's a tough job and the umpires are only human and have to make the calls they make in a split second. It's not right and it's not wrong that this happens it just is what it is.
Similar threads
