Swans' academy.

[Colonial]

NEWSFLASH: You have access to all that interstate talent.

NEWSFLASH: what about the go home factor?
Look at what happened to Brisbane, hell half the bashing to the Suns and Giants is about how all our players will want to go "Home" and play for "real" clubs.

 

[HarryBorsh]

This thread, honestly guys, acting like self entitled aussies..so typical.

I want this, I deserve this, If he has one I deserve one too, I this, I that.

 

[aussierulesrules]

And we should get rid of f/s to

OK then, to be fair GWS and Gold Coast may be able to get some extra advantage to compensate for the fact that you aren't able to use F/S yet (as if you need any MORE help though- fair dinkum, the AFL have effectively gifted you both multiple premiership lists!), but Sydney and Brisbane are able to benefit greatly from F/S, so they don't lose out there. In fact Sydney got Mitchell dirt cheap 3 years ago and now look like getting Dunkley even cheaper next year, so they are benefitting from F/S more than any other club at the moment, on top of having COLA, on top of having their own academy!

Like I said, it's a complete crock what is going on and will ensure that the AFL Swans (I mean Sydney) don't have to drop down the ladder and time in the forseeable future, like all other clubs are supposed to do on a cyclical cycle.

 

[FuManchu]

The player exodus Brisbane faced (and still faces) has so much more to do with their location than it does with their crappy administration. Melbourne, Richmond and Carlton have been under just as poor administration for just as long (if not longer) and have not faced anywhere near the same problems Brisbane did retaining talent.

How hard is it to recognise this? It's immensely harder for NSW and QLD sides to retain their talent when they are in a down period compared to that of traditional sides. Thanks to our club administration drafting and player development we haven't been in a down period for years, but player rentention was a huge issue during our horrible period in the early 90s, just like it is for Brisbane now.

They weren't too concerned about location when they were winning flags.

 

[master bate]

Seriously this thread. You people lack any critical thinking skills. Too many dumb teenagers in this place who have no intellectual capacity for thinking outside their tiny little existence. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

"Wah wah wah if the Swans get an academy why can't we?!"

Newsflash people - if a Victorian club wants to do nothing but draft Victorian players, they can do that and basically (assuming they pick well) be no worse off. Same with the WA clubs (which is what West Coast have basically been doing) and the SA clubs. The talent is there and it's there in abundance. That is already a MASSIVE advantage that you have been enjoying since the draft was implemented.

If a NSW side wants to do the same, they cannot. If a QLD side wants to do the same, they cannot. The talent is not there.

That's the extent of your critical thinking?

Poor us we can't draft home players?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the academies. That's an old COLA issue that has been resolved. Whilst you may struggle to retain some players to the go home factor you also get to attract players to Australia's most beautiful city and the playground of the young rich and famous. You showed that when you got Tippett and Franklin.

The reason for the academies is that Sydney and the other Northern clubs are acting as agents for the good of the AFL in growing participation in the sport and in turn get a reward. It's about boosting talent and total numbers of draftees. It has absolutely nothing to do with having a high percentage of Sydney players being from Sydney.

 

[MilhouseVsEvil]

OK then, to be fair GWS and Gold Coast may be able to get some extra advantage to compensate for the fact that you aren't able to use F/S yet (as if you need any MORE help though!), but Sydney and Brisbane are able to benefit greatly from F/S, so they don't lose out there. In fact Sydney got Mitchell dirt cheap 3 years ago and now look like getting Dunkley even cheaper next year, so they are benefitting from F/S more than any other club at the moment, on top of having COLA, on top of having their own academy. Like I said, it's a complete crock what is going on and will ensure that Sydney don't have to drop down the ladder like all other clubs are supposed to do on a cyclical cycle.

Bahahhh "cyclical cycle" wtf? Have you even seen the F/S selections the last decade, do some research. There is no guarantee that Dunkley will even accept the F/S selection the same as Daniher and others have refused to be Swans.

 

[FuManchu]

NEWSFLASH: what about the go home factor?
Look at what happened to Brisbane, hell half the bashing to the Suns and Giants is about how all our players will want to go "Home" and play for "real" clubs.

NEWSFLASH: Did Tippett and Buddy go home?

The thing is, we have 2 recent examples of a well run club proving that is all thats needed to hang onto players. Brisbane in the early 2000's and the swans currently. Well run enough to attract players to it. Well run enough that Brisbane players took pay cuts in the early 2000's to keep the list together. So its not money that is a players motivation and if it is, that's not the type of player you want. Your own club is the proof of whats important.

 

[4#Didak#4]

The essential problem with academies is that no one else is allowed to have them. I think the acadamies are a great idea - why not open them up to all clubs?

The main problem with opening it up to all clubs is that the poorer clubs cannot afford to run them so it creates a greater gulf between richer and poorer. Currently it is just creating a gulf between northern states & south/western states.

At the end of the day poorer clubs like the Dogs are forced to pay under the salary cap while clubs like Sydney are paying full cap plus a $1mil. On top of that there is free kicks like the academies.

I think everyone understands the need for a GWS to be given these type of concessions to establish themselves - I think they should temporarily keep these concessions. However, Sydney getting them is a bit bizarre. The AFL is simply trying to establish a foothold in NSW, I get that. To do so they need a successful Sydney side as Sydneysiders hate losers. The knock on is we have a compromised competition which devalues the product. Having a strong Sydney is good for the competition, but not if the price is the competitions validity.

There are a lot of inequalities in the competition that are difficult to resolve - like the draw, but we should strive to reduce the obvious loading of the dice that has been taking place. No one likes a game that fixes results and that is the effect of these rules. I think every club should play under the same rules - same salary cap, same player access. I don't see how that is an unreasonable expectation.

The best fix for academies is for the AFL to run them and not link them to a club. The AFL ran the USA draft camp, sourced the talent and made these players available to all the clubs. This is a much better model. The AFL can subsidise the development of these players in these type of markets. Having a club do it will mean it gears the progams to its needs, which does not help all the talent that is out there. An independent body will run these programs far better, be better resourced and reach far more talent. Thats the idea after all isn't it?

I do not blame Sydney for what they are doing. They are just making the best use of the rules as they stand, every other club would too. However, Sydney needs to understand that their success is a little hollow as a result of this. Who really enjoys winning when you have an unfair advantage. It taints their club - not to the extent that salary cap cheats get branded, but its a big fat question mark on how much of that success was due to AFL free kicks. This is unfair as Sydney are a great club and deserve the success they get, however it will always be a perception that they cheated legally.

Sydney are running in a handicap race where they are the front markers yet also ran the best qualifying times. They have to be expected to win the race, if they don't they have made some serious errors along the way. Unfortunately, Sydney are not run by the Carlton board and they rarely make errors.

 

[master bate]

Bahahhh "cyclical cycle" wtf? Have you even seen the F/S selections the last decade, do some research. There is no guarantee that Dunkley will even accept the F/S selection the same as Daniher and others have refused to be Swans.

Sydney supporters claiming Daniher refused the swans. Come on. Look at his surname. 4 brothers playing for the same side. Former captains. Legacy. It's a credit to how well run Sydney are currently that Daniher even sat through the process with the swans.

Are there any others who turned down Sydney who didn't happen to have their family as one of the most historically significant families at another club?

 

[legend166]

They weren't too concerned about location when they were winning flags.

Far out that's my entire point. Seriously it's like talking to a brick wall.

It's fine when they are up and about (like Brisbane a decade ago and the Swans now). But when they drop to the bottom of the ladder, it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain players. This is a problem much more prevalent in NSW and QLD as very few of their players comes from those states.

This is why the Swans approach list management the way they do. It's not just because of the possibility of losing support if we drop to the bottom of the ladder, it's the likelihood that if we drop to the bottom of the ladder, rebuilding through the draft is going to be incredibly difficult. Much more difficult than for a Victorian, South Australian or West Australian based side.

 

[FuManchu]

Far out that's my entire point. Seriously it's like talking to a brick wall.

It's fine when they are up and about (like Brisbane a decade ago and the Swans now). But when they drop to the bottom of the ladder, it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain players. This is a problem much more prevalent in NSW and QLD as very few of their players comes from those states.

This is why the Swans approach list management the way they do. It's not just because of the possibility of losing support if we drop to the bottom of the ladder, it's the likelihood that if we drop to the bottom of the ladder, rebuilding through the draft is going to be incredibly difficult. Much more difficult than for a Victorian, South Australian or West Australian based side.

And I've said earlier in the thread and for years in this forum that the AFL need to go in and fix it administratively, offer financial support, like it did the Swans in the 90's. But that's all any club should get. Geeshhhh its like talking to .......................

 

[dazbroncos]

Yes I agree, but why can't anyone draft from the academy then? Why do Sydney get a preference? I don't mind if they were down the bottom of the ladder but a flag in the last 2 years and top of the ladder and then get a preference? The drafting preference is the point NOT the academy itself. Don't you see the difference?

Been going over this in the Academy thread in Drafts and Trading. They don't get it. Period. They can have the Academy but a top 4 team, after getting the 2 x TOP FA acquisitions should not then get a top 5 rated player preselected for conceivably a pick bw 15 -18.

Go Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

Geez you still don't see it. WE ALL AGREE WITH NSW AND QUEENSLAND academies to develop nsw and Queensland talent mate. WE ALL AGREE.
But why do Sydney (who Won a flag in the last 2 years and a re top of the ladder) get preferential drafting of them when the draft is meant to be set up to keep the comp equal.

You will get blood gushing form your forehead before they see this. Good luck. I totally agree with you.

GO Catters

 

[MilhouseVsEvil]

Sydney supporters claiming Daniher refused the swans. Come on. Look at his surname. 4 brothers playing for the same side. Former captains. Legacy. It's a credit to how well run Sydney are currently that Daniher even sat through the process with the swans.

Are there any others who turned down Sydney who didn't happen to have their family as one of the most historically significant families at another club?

What about equality?

 

[Colonial]

Been going over this in the Academy thread in Drafts and Trading. They don't get it. Period. They can have the Academy but a top 4 team, after getting the 2 x TOP FA acquisitions should not then get a top 5 rated player preselected for conceivably a pick bw 15 -18.

Go Catters

How does who they buy in FA got anything to do with academy picks?? Should clubs not be able to get FS if they also pick up/retain top FA?

 

[dazbroncos]

Kurt Tippett was in the pre-season draft. There was nothing stopping you creating a space on your list and drafting him.

Lance Franklin was a restricted free agent. There was nothing stopping you from making him an offer.

Let's not let the truth get in the way of a good whinge.

Sorry.. didn't have the salary Cap space. Ours was 900k short of yours. But thanks for thinking of us.

Go Catters

 

[Mayestro]

A timely article from Emma Quayle on this very issue that I posted in the other thread:

Why the Swans Academy is nothing to be scared of

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...e-scared-of-20140714-zt78u.html#ixzz37VaKwmhp

She states the old systems just weren't working, and the new Academies should increase the total talent pool for all clubs. If it begins to work too well then the system can be revised. Well worth reading.

 

[dazbroncos]

Which I am sure you and all others would be fine with if they were bottom of the ladder and had been for a while. But FFS they won 2 flags in the last 8 years and are top of the ladder and odds on to win. ITS A JOKE THAT they think they are on struggle street

Can we some of their "disadvantages" please? Would be great to "hampered" as they are..

Go Catters

 

[clogged]

Seriously this thread. You people lack any critical thinking skills. Too many dumb teenagers in this place who have no intellectual capacity for thinking outside their tiny little existence. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

"Wah wah wah if the Swans get an academy why can't we?!"

Newsflash people - if a Victorian club wants to do nothing but draft Victorian players, they can do that and basically (assuming they pick well) be no worse off. Same with the WA clubs (which is what West Coast have basically been doing) and the SA clubs. The talent is there and it's there in abundance. That is already a MASSIVE advantage that you have been enjoying since the draft was implemented.

If a NSW side wants to do the same, they cannot. If a QLD side wants to do the same, they cannot. The talent is not there.

It's always interesting when someone wants to accuse others of lacking critical thinking skills then goes ahead and posts the dumbest thing in the thread.

The talent is there in NSW and Queensland. There are thousands of young talented athletes who exist outside the Australian football system. The AFL and Australian football in general yields nothing from this. The academies have been established such that the AFL can tap into that pool of talented athletes and develop them for AFL football from a young age.

The benefits of this scheme are mainlined directly into the northern clubs.

Yes, at present the AFL-quality talent in the northern states is thin on the ground. That won't last for long with established pathways into AFL clubs and incentive for AFL clubs to develop them. This is fine, but it is only equitable once the northern clubs are forced to give up something in return (that could be full access to the national pool of draftees, sooner withdrawal of COLA, etc).

 

[skipper kelly]

For the long term benefit of a national competition I would like to see all clubs have academys. Eventually there could be a competition where home grown youngster can play for the teams in their own state.

 

[TheGong]

5 Years ago.

AFL: We want to expand the game and bring in teams from the Gold Coast and Western Sydney.

EDDIE: GET STUFFED. All they will do is poach players from Collingwood. I am going to war against anyone who tries to poach our players.

EDDIE: GET STUFFED. There will be that many spuds playing I will get a game.

AFL: We agree. We want to set up academies so that we increase the number of players from those states to reduce the number of spuds and stop them poaching Collingwoood players.

EDDIE: GET STUFFED. Can't trust that prick Colless.

AFL: We will get Derek Hine to help drawing up the rules for the acadamies.

EDDIE: Great. OK. Let have a coffee.

Today.

EDDIE: You can all GET STUFFED. Why wasn't I told. I am going to stir up the masses and create havoc.

 

[JeffDunne]

Do players from these academies get to opt out & take their chances in the draft?

(like F/S selections)

 

[Colonial]

For the long term benefit of a national competition I would like to see all clubs have academys. Eventually there could be a competition where home grown youngster can play for the teams in their own state.

Agree times 100%, academies for each club would be great

 

[skipper kelly]

Do players from these academies get to opt out & take their chances in the draft?

(like F/S selections)

You would hope so.

 

[Colonial]

5 Years ago.

AFL: We want to expand the game and bring in teams from the Gold Coast and Western Sydney.

EDDIE: GET STUFFED. All they will do is poach players from Collingwood. I am going to war against anyone who tries to poach our players.

EDDIE: GET STUFFED. There will be that many spuds playing I will get a game.

AFL: We agree. We want to set up academies so that we increase the number of players from those states to reduce the number of spuds and stop them poaching Collingwoood players.

EDDIE: GET STUFFED. Can't trust that prick Colless.

AFL: We will get Derek Hine to help drawing up the rules for the acadamies.

EDDIE: Great. OK. Let have a coffee.

Today.

EDDIE: You can all GET STUFFED. Why wasn't I told. I am going to stir up the masses and create havoc.

Forgot to add that the Pies have taken the most players from the academies....