Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[SM]

How good is that StKilda can get Cam Mackenzie with a handful of late picks.

Have you ever heard of the notion that some inequalities are needed in order to make things equitable?

The picture on the left is what you've spent this thread screaming for.

In case you missed it.

 

[Lemma]

Yeh a team that just made a GF definitely looks like the team that needs the most help

 

[ChristianBoy]

Yeh a team that just made a GF definitely looks like the team that needs the most help

Gifts not help.

 

[SM]

Yeh a team that just made a GF definitely looks like the team that needs the most help

So because the help works it's bad?

 

[Mantastic]

So because the help works it's bad?

There is only 1 premiership each year. It's not like your equity meme, where thousands of people can watch the baseball game. Why would a Fremantle fan want Sydney advantaged by the current academy rules, even if the alternative is them disadvantaged in general? Everyone wants a fair comp, just because other parts of it are also unfair, doesn't mean you should get an advantage with the academy. That's not equity, it's bias.

 

[SM]

There is only 1 premiership each year. It's not like your equity meme, where thousands of people can watch the baseball game. Why would a Fremantle fan want Sydney advantaged by the current academy rules, even if the alternative is them disadvantaged in general? Everyone wants a fair comp, just because other parts of it are also unfair, doesn't mean you should get an advantage with the academy. That's not equity, it's bias.

The 'equity meme' analogy was to being competitive and able to compete for a Premiership, not actually win it..

 

[RichLeMonde]

The 'equity meme' analogy was to being competitive and able to compete for a Premiership, not actually win it..

Doesn’t seem like equity when Sydney never bottom out like clubs without academies (ie for more than 1 year) or, before that, COLA.

Face it, the academies exist because the afl is terrified of extended periods of shitness of clubs in NSW and Qld, since the fans woyld pretty quickly jump off.

 

[Mantastic]

The 'equity meme' analogy was to being competitive and able to compete for a Premiership, not actually win it..

At the end of the day, the academies don't bother me greatly, as a Cats fan I know that the biggest determining factor of success is being well run. So, I always think we're a chance at the start of the year, despite what other teams do. And I think Sydney would be successful without it, because of their strong administration.

I do think that there are more equitable ways to achieve the AFL's goals in Sydney though. And I'm sure most Sydney fans could agree that there are other ways to have academies in NSW without providing first dibs draft access. The fact that fans are so desperate to keep the current setup is a good indication of the advantage provided.

 

[Superstar swan]

So we are comfortable with kids dictating where they want to go in the draft. If they want to stay in Victoria that's fine. It's their prerogative. Teams just have to be smarter with who they pick even if means picking a less talented player.

Also... not fair that northern teams have a tool to encourage local selections

 

[Mantastic]

So we are comfortable with kids dictating where they want to go in the draft. If they want to stay in Victoria that's fine. It's their prerogative. Teams just have to be smarter with who they pick even if means picking a less talented player.

Also... not fair that northern teams have a tool to encourage local selections

The whole setup of the league and the nature of our large country encourages all teams to draft locally, you don't need the academy to encourage local selections. Keep the academy and just forego the priority access to the talent and there wouldn't be any issues. You'd still benefit from the go home factor.

 

[Superstar swan]

The whole setup of the league and the nature of our large country encourages all teams to draft locally, you don't need the academy to encourage local selections. Keep the academy and just forego the priority access to the talent and there wouldn't be any issues. You'd still benefit from the go home factor.

There isn't enough players from nsw and qld to benefit the northern teams in regards to go home factor.

People pretend like the academies are a production line of super talents which just isn't the case.

 

[Superstar swan]

Wonder I'd the Vic's would agree to scrap the academies if it meant that 3rd party deals were strictly outlawed and salary cap numbers were made public

 

[Mantastic]

There isn't enough players from nsw and qld to benefit the northern teams in regards to go home factor.

People pretend like the academies are a production line of super talents which just isn't the case.

You will never benefit from the go home factor if the players don't leave the state. I'm not trying to sell the academies as a production line of super talent.

What is the purpose of the academies? Like, what objectives are they trying to achieve. What are the measures for success and have they met them? Are those measures of success reliant on the players produced being drafted to Sydney? If it is a grassroots initiative, why does Sydney need the draft benefit? If the draft benefit is just because Sydney fund the academy, are you okay with St Kilda funding your zone and academy instead, and taking that benefit?

 

[Mantastic]

Wonder I'd the Vic's would agree to scrap the academies if it meant that 3rd party deals were strictly outlawed and salary cap numbers were made public

Players don't earn enough to outlaw 3rd party payments and the AFL have knocked back 3rd party deals when they have been deemed excessive. You're dreaming though if you don't think NSW based players aren't bringing in endorsement deals. Are you fine with ambassadorial payments being outlawed?

I don't think you'd find any footy fans who would care if player wages were made public though. Well run clubs, like Geelong and Sydney, will succeed under any set of rules, just give them the same rules. The Essendon's and Gold Coast's will continue to flounder.

 

[SM]

Doesn’t seem like equity when Sydney never bottom out like clubs without academies (ie for more than 1 year) or, before that, COLA.

Face it, the academies exist because the afl is terrified of extended periods of shitness of clubs in NSW and Qld, since the fans woyld pretty quickly jump off.

"Never bottom out" is a funny way of describing two years spent in the bottom 4 in 2019-20. How long did Collingwood bottom out for by comparison?

Face it, the reason there would be extended periods of shitness is because of the difficulty in retaining players and the AFL is attempting to come up with the best measures to reduce that disparity.

 

[Superstar swan]

You will never benefit from the go home factor if the players don't leave the state. I'm not trying to sell the academies as a production line of super talent.

What is the purpose of the academies? Like, what objectives are they trying to achieve. What are the measures for success and have they met them? Are those measures of success reliant on the players produced being drafted to Sydney? If it is a grassroots initiative, why does Sydney need the draft benefit? If the draft benefit is just because Sydney fund the academy, are you okay with St Kilda funding your zone and academy instead, and taking that benefit?

The purpose is to grow grass roots footy that encourages talented juniors into to code. If the overall number increases then everyone benefits..

To the funding point. Given the mentalities of players drafted these days, stk by all means can spend millions a year on a nsw academy that they they then get priority access to. Would only be a matter of time before players start requesting a trade out of Melbourne, and saints have thrown millions Down the gurgler.

Notable players from the swans academy in the last 10 years are heeney, Mills, blakey (I'll give ya that one as a rort), Campbell and errol.

To go along with the slightly less talented, hiscox, Bell, wicks and naismith .

It's hardly worth screaming up and down about

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The fact that fans are so desperate to keep the current setup is a good indication of the advantage provided.

Actually, we're not; plenty of Swans fans have posted on here that they're open to all manner of tweaks, but we don't 100% trust the AFL community to be honest in their assessment of where the inequalities lie, and what is reasonable as a way to address it.

And we will hotly contest anyone who wants to just lay shit on the Swans and say we're rorting the system or whatever resentment-fuelled conspiracy they come up with this week.

 

[Superstar swan]

Players don't earn enough to outlaw 3rd party payments and the AFL have knocked back 3rd party deals when they have been deemed excessive. You're dreaming though if you don't think NSW based players aren't bringing in endorsement deals. Are you fine with ambassadorial payments being outlawed?

I don't think you'd find any footy fans who would care if player wages were made public though. Well run clubs, like Geelong and Sydney, will succeed under any set of rules, just give them the same rules. The Essendon's and Gold Coast's will continue to flounder.

Players don't earn enough? The salary cap is 14 mill. There is plenty of money to go around for the good players at all 18 clubs. The problem is they all want to play with their mates from under 12's in the same team. So 3rd party deals are a necessity to make sure all these bff's get their market rate.

 

[Superstar swan]

What is the point of a salary Cap if 3rd party payments are allowed to be made. It's the biggest contradiction in the game

 

[Mantastic]

Actually, we're not; plenty of Swans fans have posted on here that they're open to all manner of tweaks, but we don't 100% trust the AFL community to be honest in their assessment of where the inequalities lie, and what is reasonable as a way to address it.

And we will hotly contest anyone who wants to just lay s**t on the Swans and say we're rorting the system or whatever resentment-fuelled conspiracy they come up with this week.

You'd be mad not to be using the system as it is currently setup, to your advantage, it's definitely not a rort. My team gets accused of rorting the system every year and I pay it no mind. Good clubs maximise areas of advantage, I'd be disappointed if Geelong didn't and I feel you would be too, for the Swans.

 

[RUNVS]

GWS said just yesterday just how many top end players in this years draft have indicated to them they do not want to leave their home state. It basically creates a situation where GWS and other teams without a big presence of local players in the draft only have access to a much smaller pool of players than other clubs.

I mean North has picks 2 and 3 in this draft, and in that part of the draft it is all VIC Metro players. So they can draft without worrying about the go home factor with any of those players. GWS though who had pick 3 decided to trade up because having pick 3 meant a cluster of VIC Metro players and if GWS drafted any of them then there is a good chance they would request a trade back home after a year.

It means North had a massive advantage over GWS despite both having pick 3.

 

[Superstar swan]

I agree the original incarnation or the academy was unfair and ridiculous. Getting heeney for pick 18 was just wrong. However it was rectifier the very next year and now northern clubs have to pony up the points and draft capital to pay fair market price for players

 

[Mantastic]

What is the point of a salary Cap if 3rd party payments are allowed to be made. It's the biggest contradiction in the game

Because people are allowed to make money from more that one employer. Players have short careers and need to set themselves up for a life after football. And football players have a naturally high profile, and more free time than most.

It was definitely an area that used to be exploited to the extreme, you would hope the AFL have it under control now. They did knock back deals for Judd and Ablett. And hopefully any others that seem unusually large or tied directly to club sponsors.

 

[Mantastic]

GWS said just yesterday just how many top end players in this years draft have indicated to them they do not want to leave their home state. It basically creates a situation where GWS and other teams without a big presence of local players in the draft only have access to a much smaller pool of players than other clubs.

I mean North has picks 2 and 3 in this draft, and in that part of the draft it is all VIC Metro players. So they can draft without worrying about the go home factor with any of those players. GWS though who had pick 3 decided to trade up because having pick 3 meant a cluster of VIC Metro players and if GWS drafted any of them then there is a good chance they would request a trade back home after a year.

It means North had a massive advantage over GWS despite both having pick 3.

That is a very legitimate problem. Should the GWS academy expand further and take over more of the Swans academy, so they can get more NSW talent? The Swan don't have the same issues with want away players, at least nowhere near to that extent.

 

[Superstar swan]

Because people are allowed to make money from more that one employer. Players have short careers and need to set themselves up for a life after football. And football players have a naturally high profile, and more free time than most.

It was definitely an area that used to be exploited to the extreme, you would hope the AFL have it under control now. They did knock back deals for Judd and Ablett. And hopefully any others that seem unusually large or tied directly to club sponsors.

Footballers are not working under normal circumstances . There is no salary cap in a normal workplace, normal workplace's don't live In a insular competition generation hundreds of millions .

The salary cap is purely an equalisation tool. It sets the limit of how much a club is allowed to spend and in theory should limit the amount of stars and elite talent they can hoard. What's the point of having a hard and fast cap if your allowing players to earn money outside of their biggest equalisation tool.