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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Sydney Swans Academy
- Thread starter Two Planks
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- May 14, 2012
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The academies have only been running for a few years. I believe only one academy player has, to date, been drafted onto a senior listed - Freeman last year by Brisbane. Brandon Jack is on the Swans' senior list now but was drafted as a rookie. I am not sure whether Naismith (a very raw, developing second year ruck on the Swans' rookie list) was also technically taken as an academy player. Not sure whether any academy players were rookied last year by the Suns or Giants. Andrew Boston, maybe?
The players you are thinking of are possibly ex-scholarship players taken by the Pies. Not sure if they had as many as 9. Only Witts remains on their list, though Tom Young is still in the AFL system at the Dogs.
Huh? I am not sure how one player drafted (with a second round pick) in the last decade is an advertisement for how the development of draftable players from NSW and Queensland under the systems that have been place in that time. Admittedly its not just the one. David Armitage was a also a first round draft pick from Queensland.
- May 14, 2012
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- #430
Victoria lose kids to other sports as well.
Alex Keath, would he have played footy if allowed to stay in Victoria, maybe.
Merrick Buchanan, would he have stuck with footy if allowed to stay in Victoria, maybe.
Paddy Mills, would he have stuck with footy if allowed to stay in his home state, maybe.
If you want to keep academies, kids that grow up in vic, sa, wa should be allowed to say they dont want to be drafted interstate.
Alex Keath, would he have played footy if allowed to stay in Victoria, maybe.
Merrick Buchanan, would he have stuck with footy if allowed to stay in Victoria, maybe.
Paddy Mills, would he have stuck with footy if allowed to stay in his home state, maybe.
If you want to keep academies, kids that grow up in vic, sa, wa should be allowed to say they dont want to be drafted interstate.
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- #432
And rugby doesn't take ALL the talented kids from the northern states either.
Rugby and Rugby Union take a hell of a lot more of the talented kids from New South Wales and Queensland than Basketball takes from Victoria. In the expansion states we are competing with 2 football codes that are considerably larger and more entrenched in NSW and QLD history than Aussie Rules Football is.
If the academies achieve their aims (given sufficient time), fewer WA, SA or Vic kids will land up drafted to Queensland or NSW. In the mid naughties, the Swans offered to give up all their draft rights in return for a right to develop kids in NSW. The AFL rejected this and took several years more persuasion that an academy system was needed to properly develop talent in this state.
Also, a fair number of kids from SA, Vic and WA are already saying they don't want to be drafted interstate, and leaving after a couple of years, as shown by the Lions' experience at the end of the 2013 season. Of course, it sometimes happens to other clubs too, but they tend to be the recipients of players wanting to return to their home state. In my 20 odd years of following the Swans, I think there have been two players who returned "home" to NSW - Nick Davis and Tony Armstrong. Only one of those was clearly AFL senior standard.
- Banned
- #436
Shaun Hampson (QLD) was a PP selection in 2006 (Pick 17).
Dayne Beams was considered at Collingwood's Pick 11 but was taken at 29, without question, he is the best performed draftee of 2008.
I'm not sure why you use the low amount of players 'drafted' from NSW as an example of your contention.
The NSW Scholarship System was introduced in 2005.
Almost every kid taken in that timeframe, went through that system, as opposed to the draft. Of course there wouldn't be many 'drafted' players in that period, given they fell under this system.
Add to that, The GC franchise was setup & they got priority access to QLD kids so no need to go through the draft.
Your points about 'drafted' players don't have any relevance to the situation.
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The point of the new system is not just the draft though the system is there to encourage young kids to take up AR as their no1 sport. I've said it before on other threads when this system produces regular draft picks you would expect it to change. Until then it needs to be kept cause nothing has worked before to keep kids player AR as their NUMBER ONE sport.
Well there you go! That is exactly proof of what I am talking about.
You have just named 7 players that span 20 years.
Don't you think that there may have been another 30 or 40 that could have made the cut in AFL if they had the opportunity to an acadamy type situation?
No need to answer! I already know the capacity of information you have from which to extract an answer!
Do you not see the irony of posting such a short list?
I recorded the NSW vs Queensland U18s game from the other day. Nerves impacted the first quarter but after that the quality improved. I have memories of watching a few years ago and the quality has improved since then.
Foxtel had some interesting interviews that were part of it and the commentators actually did some research. Some of the interesting points:
- there was a player who is playing in an international rugby union competition in a few weeks time who may get an immediate offer to join a rugby league list. No need to wait for the draft. That's what the AFL are competing with in NSW and Queensland.
- the best team in division 2 may be competitive with the worst team in division 1 so there is a big difference between the States.
- the academies are improving skills at an important age. Players from NSW and Queensland in the past have been a few years behind those from the AFL dominant states. No wonder hardly any get drafted at 18. My conclusion from this is that there's no unfair advantage from the academies just an evening up of standards across the country so kids from NSW and Queensland are getting access to coaching at the same level as in Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia.
Foxtel had some interesting interviews that were part of it and the commentators actually did some research. Some of the interesting points:
- there was a player who is playing in an international rugby union competition in a few weeks time who may get an immediate offer to join a rugby league list. No need to wait for the draft. That's what the AFL are competing with in NSW and Queensland.
- the best team in division 2 may be competitive with the worst team in division 1 so there is a big difference between the States.
- the academies are improving skills at an important age. Players from NSW and Queensland in the past have been a few years behind those from the AFL dominant states. No wonder hardly any get drafted at 18. My conclusion from this is that there's no unfair advantage from the academies just an evening up of standards across the country so kids from NSW and Queensland are getting access to coaching at the same level as in Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia.
OK, so go through the players recruited under the scholarship scheme and tell me a) how many were put directly onto a senior list; or b) might reasonably have been put onto a senior list had they not had their arm twisted to accept a rookie spot; and of those in b) how many might have been drafted with a pick in the first three rounds of the competition?
The lists in any of the three categories are very very short.
As I posted previously, the Sydney Swans academy produced more AA u18 players than the entire state of WA. Difference is, Sydney get first dibs on their players while WA teams have to hope (what little) local talent there is slides to them in the draft. I don't have a problem with the academy in theory - but if we are going to bring back zoning, it's time to do it for the entire country.
Lol, nice use of hyperbole there
Swans Academy had 2 players right ?
Who's fault is it that WA only had 1 player in AA team ?
Also to add on
They only got to this point (U18 AA team) is due to the Academy, and the development put into them by said academy
The aim by all academies would be to increase the number of high level players in NSW/QLD, and if it came to that point, then this current system wouls be changed
They only got to this point (U18 AA team) is due to the Academy, and the development put into them by said academy
The aim by all academies would be to increase the number of high level players in NSW/QLD, and if it came to that point, then this current system wouls be changed
In 2013 WA had four AA players to NSW's one. (A Swans "zoned" player via the now defunct scholarship scheme.)
In 2012 WA had three AA players to none from NSW.
In 2011 WA had two AA players to none from NSW.
In 2010 WA had one AA player to two from NSW (both zoned to the Giants).
In 2009, WA had nine AA players to one from NSW.
A sample of one year is never going to paint the whole picture.
Now go and look at how many players were drafted (or recruited under mini-draft / pre-selection choices) from the two states over a similar period, or going back longer. And how many have actually sustained an AFL career, rather than spending a year or two on the rookie list system before being cast adrift.
The King!
Chosen One
we should get to extend our academy into south melbourne
- May 14, 2012
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- #447
If my auntie had whiskers she would be my uncle !!!
- May 14, 2012
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- #448
No they are just the superstars, so you want me to start with the good players.
Hale
Whitecross
Addison
Hampson
Thripp
Murphy
Luff
Keefe
Bizzell
Petterd
Urquardt
Spencer
Logan
B Voss
Keating
Bolton
On 27 November 2014 after the conclusion of the this years draft, what do you think the ratio of players drafted from NSW will be to those from Western Australia? I'm sure that it won't be 2:1! And I'm sure that West Coast and Fremantle will have drafted more players from Western Australia than Sydney and GWS have drafted from their academies.
When the NSW and Queenland U18 teams are having half their numbers realistically considered as 'draftable' then the Academies have done their job of lifting the standards of players and therefore increasing the total pool of players available - for the good of ALL clubs.
Cheers
Justice
