T20 Final Match Discussion

[JimDocker]

I’m a huge believer in international competition. One country's best up against another country's best. Which isn’t really the case at the moment if we were honest.

Letting anyone play for whoever they want clearly isn’t a good thing and defeats the purpose of international competition. As for a fair go in their home country? This is going to sound harsh but… tough shit. Luck of the draw where you were born and grew up.

As for supporting Non-Australians at the Olympics? Well I’d never want them to represent Australia in the first place let alone support them if I was honest. It just doesn’t feel the same.

We can all turn a blind eye on one or so once and awhile playing but the ‘English’ cricket team are pushing the boundaries right now IMO.

As long as cricket is the only international sport you follow. You will be ok. Australia tends to only pick Australian born players. Nannes was a bit of an anomaly. He never thought he would be picked for Australia so he used his parent's nationality to play international cricket for The Netherlands. Clarrie Grimmet (NZ) and Kepler Wessells (SA) were a long time ago now.

If however you follow virtually any other sport, then you will be disappointed.


The Wallabies have Pek Cowan and Sekope Kepu who were both born in NZ with Kepu playing for the NZ u21's before he came over here. David Pocock is a Zimbabwean and Stephen Moore is born in the middle east of Irish descent !!!!

Turn a blind eye?

Not when it is England, and when England are playing well and winning.

 

[Santana]

As long as cricket is the only international sport you follow. You will be ok. Australia tends to only pick Australian born players. Nannes was a bit of an anomaly. He never thought he would be picked for Australia so he used his parent's nationality to play international cricket for The Netherlands. Clarrie Grimmet (NZ) and Kepler Wessells (SA) were a long time ago now.

If however you follow virtually any other sport, then you will be disappointed.


The Wallabies have Pek Cowan and Sekope Kepu who were both born in NZ with Kepu playing for the NZ u21's before he came over here. David Pocock is a Zimbabwean and Stephen Moore is born in the middle east of Irish descent !!!!

Turn a blind eye?

Not when it is England, and when England are playing well and winning.

I’m quite aware of the climate of the Wallabies right now. If it was up to me they wouldn’t play but it isn’t. But I’m not going to brush it off as a non-issue like most of the English are doing right now with their cricket team.

It doesn’t feel right, and those players who were non-Australian would never be my favourites. If it ever became really bad were most the team wasn’t Australian then I’d have a pretty hard time supporting the team with any real passion. It’s the reason why I feel more proud supporting the cricket team than the rugby team right now. I’m glad our cricket team is full with players from our country.

This isn’t because it’s England and because they won some T20 tournament – I’ve had a problem with it when they weren’t winning anything.

 

[Ill Chicken]

Sounds pretty weak. Australia got deservedly pumped, we played poorly. England played better than us. If you want to get technical about it, then we should only have indigenous Australian's representing us in sport.

 

[finders]

Interesting that all the "great 'NSW players including the captain let us down badly and the Vics White and D Hussey almost won the game for us!
Its about time the selectors got over their NSW fixation and started picking the best players
BTW why shouldnt Cameron White be captain?.

 

[lemmon]

Sounds pretty weak. Australia got deservedly pumped, we played poorly. England played better than us. If you want to get technical about it, then we should only have indigenous Australian's representing us in sport.

Lol wat?? So although I was born in Australia, my parents were born in Australia and my Grandparents were born in Australia I should be representing Enland?

 

[Ill Chicken]

Lol wat?? So although I was born in Australia, my parents were born in Australia and my Grandparents were born in Australia I should be representing Enland?

Which leads to the question, what is a native Australian?

 

[pistonbroke23]

Interesting that all the "great 'NSW players including the captain let us down badly and the Vics White and D Hussey almost won the game for us!
Its about time the selectors got over their NSW fixation and started picking the best players
BTW why shouldnt Cameron White be captain?.

Nannes was pretty handy to dont worry.

 

[Grimwood]

Which leads to the question, what is a native Australian?

1 quarter of Jason Gillespie?

Anyway we've settled up with the Irish. They're getting midfield dynamo Jamie O'Hara.

 

[peternorth]

Dirk Nannes played for The Netherlands before he played for Australia too !

so true. i think graham thorpe made mention of this in his article

 

[Doodlesweaver]

so true. i think graham thorpe made mention of this in his article

Funny thing about Nannes, he actually skied under the Aus flag before playing cricket for Netherlands.

Anyway, I think the Aussies were beaten fair and square and I don't care who plays for the opposition, that's England's lookout. Besides it makes the claims to calling themselves lions a bit more apt when half the team has Saffer descent in their blood.

Personally anything that keeps that serial choker and ego on legs, Ian Bell, out of the English team, can only be a good thing. Can't bear listening to TMS go on about how talented he is just before he has a brain fart. Stick an eskimo in place of him and I won't call them on it.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Mitch Marsh

He's too young yet. Give him another year. He looked nervous in the IPL when batting, I guess he was surprised to be there.

I thought he bowled pretty well at the death for Deccan (their death bowling was abysmal, he was one of their better bowers under pressure), which was encouraging.

But he is an excellent shot-maker with seemingly endless amounts of time to play the ball, solid off front foot and back and he can really give the ball a wallop. I have great hopes of him.

 

[lemmon]

Which leads to the question, what is a native Australian?

The argument makes no sense, you are native to where you are born, heritage plays no role in the issue. IMO you play for where you were born/spent the majority of your childhood.

 

[Ill Chicken]

The argument makes no sense, you are native to where you are born, heritage plays no role in the issue. IMO you play for where you were born/spent the majority of your childhood.

How does that apply? Childhood is a low percentage of one's life. KP would be approaching at least 50% of his life living outside of SA.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

How does that apply? Childhood is a low percentage of one's life. KP would be approaching at least 50% of his life living outside of SA.

But the impact it has on your mental make-up as an adult is way, way out of proportion to the actual time. It's difficult to make yourself just change nationalities as a mental exercise.

If people choose to play for England, what does it matter? It's making the English fans incredibly happy. Now they can gloat freely.

The Aussies will just have to suck it up and get better.

 

[Ill Chicken]

But the impact it has on your mental make-up as an adult is way, way out of proportion to the actual time. It's difficult to make yourself just change nationalities as a mental exercise.

It is the actual concept that is difficult for people to convert to a change. This is regardless of living in another country. Take moving from country Australia into the city.

If people choose to play for England, what does it matter? It's making the English fans incredibly happy. Now they can gloat freely.

The Aussies will just have to suck it up and get better.

I don't have a problem with it, it is up to the individual to find their way into international cricket.

 

[saj_21]

Actually. Yes.

That is assuming you don't count all of the medals in the Olympic games that are from Non-Australians.

I am a big believer in athletes being allowed to ply their trade. If circumstances mean that a player is not getting a fair go in their country of birth. They should be allowed to move to another country and, once the qualifying period is served. Represent that country.

England were good enough to give Basil D'Oliveira a chance to play first class and eventually test cricket when apartheid meant that he could not play in South Africa. Now they are helping out others who do not get a fair go because of the quota system.

They represent England and are proud to do it, so fair play.

Otherwise, would you like some cheese with that whine?

Not a good comparison IMO. The olympic team is far bigger team (than a cricket team) and the sports in the Olympics have low participation rates at lower levels and potential athletes lost to football, soccer, cricket etc It is no suprise we "recruit" athletes into our Olympic team (we also have small population compared to the other nations in the olympics in the top 10 medals). BUT;

Surely in a country of 60+ million people, you could pick 11 players who were born and raised in your own country, instead of relying on 3-4 players from other countries making up your team.

No doubting you were the better side on the day and throughout the tourtament, Congrats and bring on the Ashes!

 

[JimDocker]

Not a good comparison IMO. The olympic team is far bigger team (than a cricket team) and the sports in the Olympics have low participation rates at lower levels and potential athletes lost to football, soccer, cricket etc It is no suprise we "recruit" athletes into our Olympic team (we also have small population compared to the other nations in the olympics in the top 10 medals). BUT;

Surely in a country of 60+ million people, you could pick 11 players who were born and raised in your own country, instead of relying on 3-4 players from other countries making up your team.

No doubting you were the better side on the day and throughout the tourtament, Congrats and bring on the Ashes!

I think it is a perfectly reasonable comparison.

One accepts that athletes will move between borders or one doesn't.

No doubt we could pick 11 players that were born and bred in England, but I think we should pick the best 11 possible. It is what everybody else does in all sports all over the world.

England has a strong first class competition that pays well, so disenfranchised players from other countries can make good money while qualifying for national selection.

The same could be said of Shield cricket. Are the players representing their home states or not? The movement between states is massive nowadays and even foreign players are starting to become more common in the 20/20 at least.

 

[amer]

My problem with England has always been their mental strength, or lack of it. No mongrel in them. They won a closely fought series in England last year, and now they've won a T20 match. But now they've got to step into the cauldron and back it up, and historically when England has been asked to back something up...

Huge test for them, no question. I can't wait for the series.

 

[saj_21]

I think it is a perfectly reasonable comparison.

One accepts that athletes will move between borders or one doesn't.

No doubt we could pick 11 players that were born and bred in England, but I think we should pick the best 11 possible. It is what everybody else does in all sports all over the world.

England has a strong first class competition that pays well, so disenfranchised players from other countries can make good money while qualifying for national selection.

The same could be said of Shield cricket. Are the players representing their home states or not? The movement between states is massive nowadays and even foreign players are starting to become more common in the 20/20 at least.

Another bad comparison, Shield cricket is still all within Australia. 20/20 is different it is a way for each state to make money and for international players to make a quick $50 k (for 3 weeks work) the states nor Cricket Aus nor the international players are trying to press for Australia selection.

The fact is despte cricket being a game you invented and a main stream sport in England and with a population 3 times the size of Australia you still can't find 11 thats right 11 out of 60+ million people to field a truly England side.

 

[JimDocker]

Another bad comparison, Shield cricket is still all within Australia. 20/20 is different it is a way for each state to make money and for international players to make a quick $50 k (for 3 weeks work) the states nor Cricket Aus nor the international players are trying to press for Australia selection.

The fact is despte cricket being a game you invented and a main stream sport in England and with a population 3 times the size of Australia you still can't find 11 thats right 11 out of 60+ million people to field a truly England side.

I don't think you are totally unreasonable, but I think one can accept that professional athletes move around in this day and age or you don't accept it.

You seem to think it is ok in some circumstances and not others.

It is best we agree to dis agree and look forward to The Ashes !

Kostya Tzsyu says gday

 

[saj_21]

I don't think you are totally unreasonable, but I think one can accept that professional athletes move around in this day and age or you don't accept it.

You seem to think it is ok in some circumstances and not others.

It is best we agree to dis agree and look forward to The Ashes !

Kostya Tzsyu says gday

I don't disagree athletes can't swap countries, however this whole topic was brought up on the fact England won the T20 world cup with3-4 players from other countries in their side and having been playing international cricket with players from other countries for the last 4-5 years.

Again you reference is not a good comparison, i have no doubt we can line up a list of 100 athletes who haved 'swaped countries" and now represent either England or Australia. But fact is our cricket side despite having a third of the population manage to produce a first class team with 11 cricket born and raisd in this country.

and don't get me started on Great Britan (pillaging other countries to make up your Olympic team)...Andy Murray says Hi!

 

[Ill Chicken]

Australia have a significantly better cricketing set-up than England. We have a funnel system in essence, where as England, have county teams that scout.

 

[JimDocker]

I don't disagree athletes can't swap countries, however this whole topic was brought up on the fact England won the T20 world cup with3-4 players from other countries in their side and having been playing international cricket with players from other countries for the last 4-5 years.

Again you reference is not a good comparison, i have no doubt we can line up a list of 100 athletes who haved 'swaped countries" and now represent either England or Australia. But fact is our cricket side despite having a third of the population manage to produce a first class team with 11 cricket born and raisd in this country.

and don't get me started on Great Britan (pillaging other countries to make up your Olympic team)...Andy Murray says Hi![/quote]

I shouldn't get drawn in, but I have been.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland(commonly known as the United Kingdom, the UK or Britain) is a sovereign state located off the northwestern coast of continental Europe. It is an island country.
The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy and unitary state.

It is governed by a parliamentary system with its seat of government in London, the capital, but with three devolved national administrations of varying powers in Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh, the capitals of Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland respectively.

The constitution of The United Kingdom is a complex one, but it is a country.
If you are interested, google unitary state.

I am not going to continue beyond this. It is a cricket board and like most people on here, I am looking forward to The Ashes and will happily join in on banter concerning the games !

 

[Grimwood]

and don't get me started on Great Britan (pillaging other countries to make up your Olympic team)...Andy Murray says Hi!

I don't want to get too drawn into this debate, but why does this come up so often on BigFooty? I can understand NI/Eire confusion, but do you think Scotland is a separate island or something?

 

[saj_21]

I don't want to get too drawn into this debate, but why does this come up so often on BigFooty? I can understand NI/Eire confusion, but do you think Scotland is a separate island or something?

Just a tounge in cheek comment should included a at the end of the post!