Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Agreed. And this is an entire subject on its own so I’ll keep it brief, but I think the senior players of the club are still carrying a baggage from it and also a sense of entitlement. I’m more excited by our youngsters taking over once heppell and co are gone.

The Francis signing was so interesting to me. In his interview he stated how it was Draper, redman and the like that got him to feel apart of the club. That’s an indictment on the leadership group.

So yeah further to your point I think the saga is affecting us in ways that aren’t as obvious as the dodged player exodus.

As much as I love Joey and Raz in some ways I feel like it'd be best for everyone to move on. Maybe I'm thinking like this so it doesn't depress me because they're likely to leave, I don't know, but I feel relatively good about it if they go (provided we get adequately compensated).

 

[BrunoV]

Was actually thinking today that we have been extremely lucky to have not lost any (big) players through the saga or even Free Agency. Catching up with us now it seems

What do you call Ryder, Hibberd and Carlisle?

 

[Towno78]

What do you call Ryder, Hibberd and Carlisle?

And melksham. 2 All Australians. But no one big fortunately.

 

[Bjchan13]

The core of what we've got 26 years old and under

FB Saad (25) Francis (22) Redman (22)

HB Ridley (21) Gleeson (25) Mcgrath (21)

C McKenna (23) Merrett (24) Ham (20)

HF Smith (26) Daniher (25) Langford (22)

FF Tippa (26) Stringer (25) Fantasia (24)

R Draper (21) Parish (22) Shiel (26)

B Clarke (21) Guelfi (22) Stewart (25) BZT (21)

Emg Begley (21) Laverde (23) Snelling (22) Hartley (26)

Average age 23

 

[citizen-erased]

As much as I love Joey and Raz in some ways I feel like it'd be best for everyone to move on. Maybe I'm thinking like this so it doesn't depress me because they're likely to leave, I don't know, but I feel relatively good about it if they go (provided we get adequately compensated).

If we got 5, 9 and 11 for the 2, it could set us up.
We get unders, and it sets us back.

Daniher is an AA quality CHF/FF. Raz was close to AA in 2017 as well. Missed 4 games after a strong show of form that ultimately cost him imo.

In, we have a dangerous forward line
Out, one only needs to look at 2019.

2017 we score 2135
2019 we score 1702

Thats how important those two are to us.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

If we got 5, 9 and 11 for the 2, it could set us up.
We get unders, and it sets us back.

Daniher is an AA quality CHF/FF. Raz was close to AA in 2017 as well. Missed 4 games after a strong show of form that ultimately cost him imo.

In, we have a dangerous forward line
Out, one only needs to look at 2019.

2017 we score 2135
2019 we score 1702

Thats how important those two are to us.

Assuming fit, a big assumption it seems.

 

[Zach Package]

I agree with the sentiments but I'd get there slighty differently.

I dont think the game plan is necessarily dependent on Daniher and Fantasia. Actually, I'm not even clear on what our game plan is. So far Rutten's defence has seen us as even less of a forward 50 defensive side than we were last year.

We're basically playing the game from half back so it's hardly surprising that some of the defensive numbers look good.

Combining that with a score is the problem and that's where gun forwards come in to the equation.

We need Daniher and Fantasia playing their best footy next year to stay a top 8 side, and improve, with the midfield we have and playing the brand of our exposed form.

The competition is going to get better next year and we're just about to lose our competitive advantage.

Bottom 4 is not out of the question if we're playing this year's side.

We'll never do it but if Joe and Raz are gone I'd give Hooker, Hurley and Zaharakis the option of a new home.

Not so much because they have significant value but a raid on the second round of the draft would be my plan and we're basically rebuilding anyway.

Rutten and Caracella are going to have to pull a rabbit out.

It’s funny, a part of me thinks the coaches are geniuses for engineering some kind of formula to remain competitive through personnel battles and utilising our strengths to actually stay in games and an equally large part of me is concerned that because it’s brought us some measure of success it definitely has a ceiling and we will become satisfied with it and not attempt to tweak things and alter personnel, it’s not a sustainable method.

We’ve shown we can play a forward half game in fits and starts and we’ve shown we can hunt the man and pressure the ball carrier and score off turnovers in fits and starts, let’s continue to build on that, we know the running game isn’t going anywhere because McKenna, McGrath, Redman, Saad and Gleeson are all young, and while they can actually defend getting on the run comes naturally to them.

I think we’ll cap out around the same from last year provided our injury list isn’t catastrophic again but I’m still concerned with our depth. We are very much rebuilding the side on the fly, I’d almost be satisfied with missing finals if we come back looking strong and covering the ground well and we show better method in moving the ball from defence to attack and keeping it there.

 

[citizen-erased]

Needs more KPF

 

[Cold Sober]

The core of what we've got 26 years old and under

FB Saad (25) Francis (22) Redman (22)

HB Ridley (21) Gleeson (25) Mcgrath (21)

C McKenna (23) Merrett (24) Ham (20)

HF Smith (26) Daniher (25) Langford (22)

FF Tippa (26) Stringer (25) Fantasia (24)

R Draper (21) Parish (22) Shiel (26)

B Clarke (21) Guelfi (22) Stewart (25) BZT (21)

Emg Begley (21) Laverde (23) Snelling (22) Hartley (26)

Average age 23

Like it.

 

[vast]

I was thinking about how much has changed since we got Shiel just 12 months ago. There was so much to be optimistic about for 2019.

We had our gun mid recruit.
Joey and Raz would be back and firing
Smack and Joey would be working in tandem
Draper would get a few games.

Fast forward 12 months

Joey Raz Smith useless this year and the first 2 now leaving
Our midfield is still shit
Our Ruck situation is worrysome
Key forward situation also worrysome
Solutions apparently Phillips and Jenkins lol

Backline is good.
Redman and francis positives there.

So as it looks right now we are years away again from being any sort of threat come finals time.

 

[Bjchan13]

I was thinking about how much has changed since we got Shiel just 12 months ago. There was so much to be optimistic about for 2019.

We had our gun mid recruit.
Joey and Raz would be back and firing
Smack and Joey would be working in tandem
Draper would get a few games.

Fast forward 12 months

Joey Raz Smith useless this year and the first 2 now leaving
Our midfield is still s**t
Our Ruck situation is worrysome
Key forward situation also worrysome
Solutions apparently Phillips and Jenkins lol

Backline is good.
Redman and francis positives there.

So as it looks right now we are years away again from being any sort of threat come finals time.

It depends on who we draft/recruit and how the players respond to Rutten/Caracella. We saw teams like dogs and tigers lose a gun player and change coaching set up but they were able to improve quickly. Could be a breath of fresh air that does us good.

 

[vast]

It depends on who we draft/recruit and how the players respond to Rutten/Caracella. We saw teams like dogs and tigers lose a gun player and change coaching set up but they were able to improve quickly. Could be a breath of fresh air that does us good.

You are right we cant rule it out. But I dont see it happening with us. Dogs benefited from good timing as much as anything.

And the tigers would have got prestia + nank anyway and Caddy was not really the key to their premiership success so losing deledio in hindsight was never going to hurt them as they had most of the key pieces in place already.

If we can turn whatever we get for Joey and Raz into a very good key forward and and very good inside mid in this trade period then we might be able to go ok for the next 2 years, but that seems very unlikely to me given how long its going to take to just sort out those deals and what is actually available that addresses our needs. Best option is to have a bit of a reset bring in some youth. If there are no young key forwards in this draft then target the best young pure mids we can get with our early picks. Have a crack at Jeremy Cameron as a free agent next year but still focus on drafting a KPF or 2 if possible next year.

 

[Gabe251]

If Raz leaves too, it's a reset if the three year goal to win a flag, honestly. Heppell, Smith, shiel, Merrett as the leaders, an older, experienced head. McGrath, Francis and Darc in their prime, and whoever we bring in this year will be instrumental. It's not nice to be average for another two years, and I expect us to drop if we are blooding players. but if we put game time into the kids, we will get the reward eventually.

Need a good ****ing forward tho.

 

[Bjchan13]

You are right we cant rule it out. But I dont see it happening with us. Dogs benefited from good timing as much as anything.

And the tigers would have got prestia + nank anyway and Caddy was not really the key to their premiership success so losing deledio in hindsight was never going to hurt them as they had most of the key pieces in place already.

If we can turn whatever we get for Joey and Raz into a very good key forward and and very good inside mid in this trade period then we might be able to go ok for the next 2 years, but that seems very unlikely to me given how long its going to take to just sort out those deals and what is actually available that addresses our needs. Best option is to have a bit of a reset bring in some youth. If there are no young key forwards in this draft then target the best young pure mids we can get with our early picks. Have a crack at Jeremy Cameron as a free agent next year but still focus on drafting a KPF or 2 if possible next year.

Id like Dougal Howard, Wines and Bonar this trade period. Id like us to go hard at B King next year.

 

[vast]

Need a good ******* forward tho.

Big concern this area at the moment given we are about to lose so much scoring power.

Smack and Brown arent the answer long term obviously.

Stewart isnt a 50+ goal kicker.

Who knows what Gown will end up if anything.

Stringer is good but without Joey gets the best defender most of the time.

A damn shame we never got to see the below in action together at their best.

Fantasia Daniher Tippa Smack Stringer

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Big concern this area at the moment given we are about to lose so much scoring power.

Smack and Brown arent the answer long term obviously.

Stewart isnt a 50+ goal kicker.

Who knows what Gown will end up if anything.

Stringer is good but without Joey gets the best defender most of the time.

A damn shame we never got to see the below in action together at their best.

Fantasia Daniher Tippa Smack Stringer

Never played a single game together

 

[The Speaker]

rebuilding the side on the fly

Feels like we've been doing this since 2002.

 

[Paul_Barnard]

This went through to the keeper.

Delayed onset Saga soreness perhaps?

I hope it didn't.
We should be far more pessimistic about our current predicament than we ever were between 2012-16.
The Saga i can accept retrospectively. It was an unprecedented situation which was ultimately influenced by variables completely out of EFC's control.
This current predicament is entirely of our own doing, created by people who will remain at the wheel again next year.

Perhaps the soreness comes in the form of embarrassing ourselves in another final, meaning it is now 15 years without win?

Or maybe the fact that we've treaded water for 3 years and are now going backwards despite the club selling the dream, saying our list is now in a position to challenge (which is laughable, if you watch the WestCoast first quarter again).

Two Essendon heart and soul players who the EFC in their wisdom appointed to leadership roles are turning their backs and WALKING OUT on them.
And finally we now have a half pregnant coaching succession plan because our leadership are too scared to make hard decisions.

No soreness at all, everything is fine

 

[DapperJong]

Ok

 

[Mikevk123]

Wouldn’t mind Jake Ricarddi and Mitch Hibberd

 

[brutus76]

Wines yes for #5
SPP no
Cutler yes for bugger all
Zac Smith as the back up ruck for bugger all

 

[die waiting]

james stewart has had the op and is tracking extremely well

 

[MattyB3150]

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[faible]

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View attachment 760475

Redman has played less games than Parish yet somehow isn't 'developing' ... Also Redman is rated below James Stewart, Laverde and Guelfi, despite being significantly better in 2019 than all of the above.

I'd say Fantasia & Daniher both have the talent to be elite (top 5) by position, but aren't durable. Unfortunately they are also the two most likely not to be on our list in 2020.

Otherwise we don't have any players I'd say are currently, or are likely to become, that top 5 by position player in the centre or forward.

As drafted players McGrath, Parish, Redman, Merrett will all play 200+ games for EFC barring injury. Francis also likely, and I still have a lot of faith in Ridley. Ham is another I think will make the grade, just needs a couple of pre-seasons of physical development to really impact.

Our drafting hasn't been poor per se, but we've got a lot of solid citizens who are flanker / outside types without nailing anyone truly elite in that part of the ground.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

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View attachment 760475

Forget the gradings for a second and just look at it as a ranking of our players... it’s all over the ****in shop.