Team vs Doggies - Who should be in?

[TradeDraft]

All looks good to me, apart from the Beams situation????

I would have had Beams in for Wellingham.

This could mean one of 2 things...

First... the one everyone seems to have speculated about. He was punished for being out late, late into the pre-season and although this may not be part of his official punishment, it simply could be that since he was dropped, he has not earned his way back in... Drop him and he loses all previous earned brownie points.

Secondly is maybe a little tied to the end of my first point, but we must remember that Wellinghams name was thrown around on the trade table (to go to North for a Pick to be passed onto St Kilda) last year as a way to get Luke Ball to Collingwood... If this was the case it would have been a huge wake up call to him and I remember saying last year that the fact it fell threw would have probably been re leaved, possibly he has truely earned the spot and is ahead of Beams in value to the team right now.

Amazing to think that a player like Beams doesn't come straight back in (in saying all that - he still may play!)

I think Beams did not get in because of the Behaviour in the Last couple of Weeks and Sharrod got in because of his Speed and MM probably giving him 1st Crack at Redeeming himself after nearly getting Traded

 

[Pie eyed]

Agree FooTbaLL GOD ( and everyone else it seems!) Beams is in best 22.

I think you have to have rules and discipline, no question.

However, maybe any punished players should have the option of either being left out, like it appears has happened here, or else a nominated financial penalty

Have the players committee set the penalties vs crime pre-season and publish the list.
eg out after curfew less than two hours $1000.
Out after curfew more than two hours $ 3000.
Pissed, add extra $$ or whatever.

That way, two things.
1. Players know what they're in for, and can think seriously before transgressing
2. The on field performance doesn't potentially get compromised.

I think this compromises our team tomorrow, in a giant game.

Imagine if we go down by a few points and Beams' replacement has a really ordinary game.

The supporters and sponsors are a big part of what keeps a club afloat, they would be forgiven for being cheesed off.

Eg who knows, we could potentially have won a flag, was it 08, when Heath and Didak were left out. Unlikely probably, but we'll never know.

Thoughts?

If it is an issue of a penalty for his late night indiscretion I think there should be hard and fast, inflexible rules which apply to all.

If and I stress IF, Beams is out for disciplinary reasons it would have come from the leadership group and they would be in a better position to hand down a penalty than anyone of us.

Personally I think it's a "horses for courses" call from the match selection committee.

No-one can assume they are getting a game and so it should be.

 

[bucksisbest]

I was expecting Wellingham to get a game based on pre season form , and I would certainly be looking at 3 or 4 other blokes before him to make way for Beams.
Having said that if Beams was genuinely getting punished , he had to miss an actual game.

 

[Quicky]

I've got absolutely no problems with Wellinghams selection. He's been in good form, was pretty damn good last year including games he really helped us win. Against the Doggies I think it's important to have a few guys with leg speed and Wellingham is one of our fastest mids. I'd still have liked to have seen Beams in the 22 but Johnson is the obvious ommission IMO.

 

[Smoky]

I've got absolutely no problems with Wellinghams selection. He's been in good form, was pretty damn good last year including games he really helped us win. Against the Doggies I think it's important to have a few guys with leg speed and Wellingham is one of our fastest mids. I'd still have liked to have seen Beams in the 22 but Johnson is the obvious ommission IMO.

Why? Because he has had a great pre season and killed it, playing on the ball last week???

 

[Quicky]

Why? Because he has had a great pre season and killed it, playing on the ball last week???

No because I don't rate him as a player anymore or his contribution to the team. He is an unaccountable, outside player with poor footskills who is played in a defensive role. For a guy with a reputation as being a tough hard at it player a ridiculous percentage of his possessions are uncontested. He's lost a touch of pace now also. His biggest redeeming quality these days is his experience and his versatility to play on quicker forward/mid type players. But IMO he does this role poorly. For these reasons he seems the obvious ommission for Beams - who I rate much more highly. Also I think Wellingham can play Johnsons role better so don't see it affecting team balance that badly in this game.

 

[Smoky]

No because I don't rate him as a player anymore or his contribution to the team. He is an unaccountable, outside player with poor footskills who is played in a defensive role. For a guy with a reputation as being a tough hard at it player a ridiculous percentage of his possessions are uncontested. He's lost a touch of pace now also. His biggest redeeming quality these days is his experience and his versatility to play on quicker forward/mid type players. But IMO he does this role poorly. For these reasons he seems the obvious ommission for Beams - who I rate much more highly. Also I think Wellingham can play Johnsons role better so don't see it affecting team balance that badly in this game.

That was last year... not this pre-season... or in fact our last practice game.

If we used that method Wellingham wouldn't be getting a game this week... or Jolly or Ball!

 

[Swooop]

If it is an issue of a penalty for his late night indiscretion I think there should be hard and fast, inflexible rules which apply to all.

If and I stress IF, Beams is out for disciplinary reasons it would have come from the leadership group and they would be in a better position to hand down a penalty than anyone of us.

Personally I think it's a "horses for courses" call from the match selection committee.

No-one can assume they are getting a game and so it should be.

If indeed deliberate selection policy, 'horses for courses', then agree no problem with that.

If, on the other hand, it was actually a disciplinary action ( that from all acconts was warranted) then that is the basis for my question.

That is, should it be a suspension from playing, or should it be financial penalty against the player. ie so that it is purely the player penalised, as opposed to the player PLUS the supporters, sponsors, potentially match results etc..

 

[rose jam]

I think we're in a good space if we're arguing about BJ and Wellingham being the 23rd man. Think that would make them the best 23's in the comp. What a title!

 

[Quicky]

That was last year... not this pre-season... or in fact our last practice game.

If we used that method Wellingham wouldn't be getting a game this week... or Jolly or Ball!

The difference between a NAB practice match against Port Adelaide and round one of the AFL season vs the Western Bulldogs is massive. I'm not putting too much onus on the form of one practice match. If you're right and Johnson has become accountable, improved the discrepency of contested/uncontested possessions and improved his footskills i'll defer. But I don't think it's likely.

 

[Pie eyed]

If indeed deliberate selection policy, 'horses for courses', then agree no problem with that.

If, on the other hand, it was actually a disciplinary action ( that from all acconts was warranted) then that is the basis for my question.

That is, should it be a suspension from playing, or should it be financial penalty against the player. ie so that it is purely the player penalised, as opposed to the player PLUS the supporters, sponsors, potentially match results etc..

I see the ultimate penalty being out of the side in that scenario.
As I said, but probably not clearly, was that if the leadership group, read the players, deem it warranted then I'm happy to see any player who loses focus on our main goal pay a price for stepping out of line purely on a disciplinary level.

 

[Swooop]

I see the ultimate penalty being out of the side in that scenario.
As I said, but probably not clearly, was that if the leadership group, read the players, deem it warranted then I'm happy to see any player who loses focus on our main goal pay a price for stepping out of line purely on a disciplinary level.

Sorry didn't get what you were saying the first time..

Nevertheless, I just wonder if the leadership group is still overly 'locked in' to the concept of missing games for indiscretions, rather than imposing a financial penalty, which by nature penalises the one and only person who deserved the penalty, rather than penalising player, plus the team, it's supporters etc.

Let's face it, and I know I don't have to tell you, the supporters have been a long suffering lot!! We don't need extra punishment watching a potentially compromised team going into battle, eg recent finals sans Heater, Didak and this week minus Beams( assuming he is out for disciplinary reasons only)

 

[Smoky]

The difference between a NAB practice match against Port Adelaide and round one of the AFL season vs the Western Bulldogs is massive. I'm not putting too much onus on the form of one practice match. If you're right and Johnson has become accountable, improved the discrepency of contested/uncontested possessions and improved his footskills i'll defer. But I don't think it's likely.

I have a very different opinion to Jono's worth and skills than alot of people on this site... a bit like the Toovey haters at the start of last year... The Obree haters...

Some of us watch the game in a different way... and I'm glad the selection committee see it the same way.

I happy to agree to disagree... but seriously the "dropping Jono" line is wearing thin, especially as you weren't in Arizona... you saw the Saints game... but anything else?

 

[Quicky]

I have a very different opinion to Jono's worth and skills than alot of people on this site... a bit like the Toovey haters at the start of last year... The Obree haters...

Some of us watch the game in a different way... and I'm glad the selection committee see it the same way.

I happy to agree to disagree... but seriously the "dropping Jono" line is wearing thin, especially as you weren't in Arizona... you saw the Saints game... but anything else?

Going by that logic I guess we should all just give up and stop offering our opinions?? Nobody in here is going to be able to make 'fully' informed opinions about any of these things. Like I said, I find it highly unlikely that Johnson will become accountable, learn to kick straight and start winning significantly more contested possies at this stage of his career over an offseason. Actually, i'd just settle for accountable in the role he is playing. If he does i'll admit I was wrong. As it stands, due to the long standing flaws in his game, I feel we have better players to fill his role in the team. I think thats enough logic to question Johnsons position in the team.

 

[Football God]

I'd still have liked to have seen Beams in the 22 but Johnson is the obvious ommission IMO.

Quicky, BJ has a massive impact on our game still.
the way we use our game plan he plays a perfect part in it.

similar to heath getting the ball on the wings and has a great centering kick to our leading forwards.

him and sidey had massive rolls in our win against the crows in 09 final.

we need him.

 

[Handsofstone]

Quicky, BJ has a massive impact on our game still.
the way we use our game plan he plays a perfect part in it.

similar to heath getting the ball on the wings and has a great centering kick to our leading forwards.

him and sidey had massive rolls in our win against the crows in 09 final.

we need him.

That would be roles.

Was a jonno fan b4 but am no longer as the game has moved beyond him

Beamer should have been in on that wing and this will be proven by what happnes from here on in.

Jonno will lose his spot - not get back and will be gone by end of year.

I JUST watched the foxtel (on iq which i saved) game v Adelaide in Adeliade last year.

He was horrendous so was LEROY and so was OB

Why we are messing around with these blokes defies logic

 

[smiddaz123]

Quicky, BJ has a massive impact on our game still.
the way we use our game plan he plays a perfect part in it.

similar to heath getting the ball on the wings and has a great centering kick to our leading forwards.

him and sidey had massive rolls in our win against the crows in 09 final.

we need him.

Johnson was the player responsible for Bernie Vince was he not?

 

[Quicky]

Johnson was the player responsible for Bernie Vince was he not?

This.

People seem to remember Johnson kicking those two important goals and yet failing dismally in his run with role on Vince. Vinces dominance was a big reason we were so far down early in that game. You'd think Johnson was an important goal scoring mid if you looked at that game in isolation, reality is those two goals were two of five he kicked for the year.

FootyGod I see the relevance of Johnson role in the team I just argue that he does it poorly and IMO we have better options. Someone in another thread mentioned that teams were failing to run out games well due the heat and the fact it is round one so maybe it's Johnnos fitness levels that played a big role in his selection today.

 

[Football God]

FootyGod I see the relevance of Johnson role in the team I just argue that he does it poorly and IMO we have better options. Someone in another thread mentioned that teams were failing to run out games well due the heat and the fact it is round one so maybe it's Johnnos fitness levels that played a big role in his selection today.

mmm fair enough agree with better players in the same position as him, but he can consistently get his job done, lets hope he can do it for the next 3 hours more importantly first.

 

[Quicky]

mmm fair enough agree with better players in the same position as him, but he can consistently get his job done, lets hope he can do it for the next 3 hours more importantly first.

I hope he pawns that flog Aker

 

[Football God]

I hope he pawns that flog Aker

He was all class

 

[Zahki]

Alright I'm going to come out and be the first to admit I was wrong, wrong, wrong about Wellingham. Fantastic game, he can stay in for the entire season if thats how he's going to play.

 

[Football God]

Alright I'm going to come out and be the first to admit I was wrong, wrong, wrong about Wellingham. Fantastic game, he can stay in for the entire season if thats how he's going to play.

loved his little clearance run in the ball up in our def 50 near the end.
has alot of class about him.

 

[Quicky]

He was all class

Very good game by Johnson, even from a sceptics POV.

Alright I'm going to come out and be the first to admit I was wrong, wrong, wrong about Wellingham. Fantastic game, he can stay in for the entire season if thats how he's going to play.

Not feeling bad about pumping him up for this game right now

 

[Smoky]

Going by that logic I guess we should all just give up and stop offering our opinions?? Nobody in here is going to be able to make 'fully' informed opinions about any of these things. Like I said, I find it highly unlikely that Johnson will become accountable, learn to kick straight and start winning significantly more contested possies at this stage of his career over an offseason. Actually, i'd just settle for accountable in the role he is playing. If he does i'll admit I was wrong. As it stands, due to the long standing flaws in his game, I feel we have better players to fill his role in the team. I think thats enough logic to question Johnsons position in the team.

Read below...

Very good game by Johnson, even from a sceptics POV.

Not feeling bad about pumping him up for this game right now

A Bon Jovi would say....

Where's the faith?