thank god the port adelaide jumper issue is put to rest

[Coobk001]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/105237/default.aspx

Finally we can all move on with the merger of the port Adelaide magpies and port adelaide power, so we can finally agree that there has this far been two clubs and historically Port adelaide Power have been trying to usurp the port adelaide magpies history to claim some sort of black and white history.

there is only one black and white

hahahahahaha, you idiot.

The PAFC have moved into the AFL from the SANFL in 1997, having previously won 34 SANFL premierships we've since won 1 AFL premiership.

A members vote was held at Alberton back in 1994-1996 regarding whether the PAFC would move into the AFL or not and the vote was unanimously passed, and whether you like it or not that club the PAFC with all that tradition moved into the AFL.

The Magpies were created in 1997 to replace the PAFC, they were created using the PAFC's $1Million in funds and allowed to use the name and jumper owned by the PAFC now in the AFL.

The Magpies now are finally back under the control of the Port Adelaide Football club where they came from and should've always been if not for the restrictions put on the club by the SANFL. In fact the Magpies should never have been created in 1997 and 90% of PAFC supporters will tell you that but now that the do exist and have won 2 premierships in their brief existance the PAFC has a duty to look after them if the SANFL wont, as such the PAFC now has 1 team in two competitions.

 

[millsie]

Hey don't get mad. It's not my fault that 90% of your flags were won in a run of the mill state comp before colour TV was invented!

Thems is just facts. The truest facts that ever were facts!

If the VFL was such a run of the mill state comp why did all the best SANFL players (and WAFL players) want to play there?

But Port aren't a new franchise we are a club that moved competitions not too different than what occured to the established Victorian clubs when the VFL competition was disbanded to create the AFL in 1990. Your team left the VFL to be in the AFL im sure if you didnt like it you could have become defunct like the VFL did at the time.

Your pre 1990 Premierships were won in a state based competition not a national league and a distinction has to be made but there is no doubting the significance of winning them and they should be recognised as VFL flags.

We make the distinction with pride we have our SANFL flags and lots of them and we have our one AFL flag which we freakin cherish.

We ditched our state league for the glory of the AFL so did you guys.

The VFL did not disband to become the AFL. It was just a name change to reflect the fact that West Coast and Brisbane had been admitted to the league, South Melbourne had moved to Sydney and the Crows were about to join. That is all that changed. Please stop with the revisionist history.

 

[Coobk001]

Because as a club Port deserved to be in a nationalised league. The fact the mistake back in the 80's that a selfish, myopic decision was made by politicing, money and power to expand the existing VFL can not be re written. Hence we still have VFL legacy teams in the AFL, but hopefully this can and should be redressed in the next decade. The AFL in it's current guise is about 3 times a stronger league than the VFL ever was. It's unfortunate that the VFL teams get their state league flags counted, but thems the breaks. It's wrong, but to the winners go the spoils of victory.

We have what we have. Port entered the AFL on the back of it's sucess in the SANFL - an undeniable fact. Port are a traditional and very successful club that joined the quasi national, but now totally professional (except in it's equity of fixturing) league. Port wear a black white and teal guernsey in the AFL. If you are going to have a heritage round Port should be allowed to wear it's Prison bar guernsey as it was it's primary guernsey for most of the 20th century. Other wise we wear our normal guernsey.

Such an idiotic thread really. Why the uniting of the PAFC and the PAMFC has anything to do with Collingwood and the pretty much dead guernsey debate is beyond me.

Spot on.

 

[Asgardian]

And I think we all rejoice in Port wearing the black and white in the SANFL, thats who I identify as the real Port and have enjoyed their success in that league.

But plenty of Port supporters want to wear the black and white for heritage rounds in this league and your heritage in this league is most definitely not black and white. Port chose to forge a new identity when they entered this league and whatever they chose to wear, that is your relevant heritage.

No, our heritage dates back to 1870, we did not create a new identity, we evolved as was necessary to enter the AFL.

The changes we made, and accepted, was because of Collingwood. That's okay. We accepted there could not be two Magpies in the AFL. We also accepted there could not be two black & white's in the AFL.

But please do not try to force us to abandon our heritage, our roots, our identity that has be forged and tempered in the heat of battle for 140 years.

We do not want to play a heritage round against Collingwood, as that would cloud issues we have no wish to blur. But let us have our prison bars for one match a season against an opponent other than Collingwood..

Surely Collingwood do not feel intimidated by Port Adelaide, surely Collingwood are not frightened of Port Adelaide impinging on their persona, surely Collingwood do not feel threatened by Port Adelaide impacting on their own unique brand.

No, none of that would be even remotely possible. So why not be magnanimous and enter into the spirit of what heritage round means for each and every club within the AFL, not just those who have no possible perceived issue with Collingwood.

And to those who disagree, I ask again:

Why did Port want to play in the AFL if they believe that the flags won in the SANFL were better or equal to the AFL/VFL flags?

Why not just stay in the SANFL and be content with your lot there?

That's very easy to answer

We believed that the SANFL was every bit as good as the VFL, we had to take into account that we had less money, a smaller population, but we still were fiercely proud of our excellent league.

A change began to happen though which created a situation that we were not ready for, nor had we ever considered probable.

The VFL began to be very successful at attracting the best talent to leave their own state league to join a VFL club.

In the early 1970's Craig McKellar joined Richmond, Ray Huppatz joined Footscray and Malcolm Blight joined North Melbourne. Each of these players left the Woodville Football Club, which was an expansion team that entered the senior SANFL competition in 1964. Losing those 3 bloody good players dealt them a blow they never recovered from. We had lost players earlier than that, but it was always a stray player here and there. This concerted recruiting by VFL teams began to have an effect, one we were slow to recognize until the later 1970's when Graham Cornes, Russell Ebert & Rick Davies all left, quickly followed by Kym Hodgeman, Bruce Abernathy, Danny Hughes, Mark Williams, Greg Phillips, Tony Antrobus, Mark Naley, Stephen Kernahan, Dwayne Russell, Bruce Lindner, Peter Motley, Craig Bradley, Steven Stretch, Greg Anderson and more.

Of the few players I listed above, eight of them came from Port Adelaide.

It was something we could not fight from the SANFL, so Port's determination was that if we couldn't beat them, we had to join them.

Thus was born Port's determination to become what was then a VFL team.

We knew to do so we had to make compromises, we made them, they hurt, but they were necessary. We accept that.

What we wanted was to have our best players stay with us, we want to win footy games, we want to win flags, we have been successful within the constraints of today's AFL.

In short we wanted to be the best by playing the best.

What we want now is just a small morsel, we want to say to the world we are still Port Adelaide, we have not surrendered our identity, but we have evolved. We want the right, just as every other club does, to have the option and the ability to show off where and what we have come from.

I do not believe we are asking for too much.

 

[Coobk001]

And I think we all rejoice in Port wearing the black and white in the SANFL, thats who I identify as the real Port and have enjoyed their success in that league.

But plenty of Port supporters want to wear the black and white for heritage rounds in this league and your heritage in this league is most definitely not black and white. Port chose to forge a new identity when they entered this league and whatever they chose to wear, that is your relevant heritage.

Our heritage as a football club is the B&W you dill. Without the success of our footy club finishing as premiers 34 times and second 35 times up until 1997 we wouldn't have won the right to enter the AFL.

And to those who disagree, I ask again:

Why did Port want to play in the AFL if they believe that the flags won in the SANFL were better or equal to the AFL/VFL flags?

Why not just stay in the SANFL and be content with your lot there?

Are you that daft! It's amazing the arrogance of you Victorians. Up until the 70's the strength of the SANFL was comparable to that of the VFL, at times it may have even been stronger given we only had 8 clubs until 1964.
To say we joined the VFL is crap. We joined the league which was known as the AFL. The arrogant stupid move the VFL made in trying to turn itself into the national league is now forever written in stone but the fact is back in the day when the league was formed it should've been formed with the WAFL & SANFL. There should've been 2 SANFL teams (Port & Norwood) in the comp, 2 WAFL teams and 8 VFL teams moved into a new league, but we live with the mistakes and arrogance of the VFL and now there are too many teams in Victoria, and worse for Port we live with the stupidity of the SANFL and their anger at the VFL as they refused to entertain talk of the SANFL moving teams into the AFL, until thankfully Port forced the SANFL's hand and the Crows were formed.

Therefore SANFL flags we won in the past may have been close to the equivalence of VFL flags pre-1970's but after that there is no denying that as the AFL formed it would make no sense for the biggest club in SA to just stay in the SANFL when an opportunity came for it to join the BRAND NEW move to form an AFL. The SANFL was declining and the VFL/AFL was becoming the top comp so it would only ever make sense to pursue the dream of the top league when we'd been so dominant in our own league.

Geez I could keep going but stupidity like this is just blinding.

 

[Coobk001]

No, our heritage dates back to 1870, we did not create a new identity, we evolved as was necessary to enter the AFL.

The changes we made, and accepted, was because of Collingwood. That's okay. We accepted there could not be two Magpies in the AFL. We also accepted there could not be two black & white's in the AFL.

But please do not try to force us to abandon our heritage, our roots, our identity that has be forged and tempered in the heat of battle for 140 years.

We do not want to play a heritage round against Collingwood, as that would cloud issues we have no wish to blur. But let us have our prison bars for one match a season against an opponent other than Collingwood..

Surely Collingwood do not feel intimidated by Port Adelaide, surely Collingwood are not frightened of Port Adelaide impinging on their persona, surely Collingwood do not feel threatened by Port Adelaide impacting on their own unique brand.

No, none of that would be even remotely possible. So why not be magnanimous and enter into the spirit of what heritage round means for each and every club within the AFL, not just those who have no possible perceived issue with Collingwood.



That's very easy to answer

We believed that the SANFL was every bit as good as the VFL, we had to take into account that we had less money, a smaller population, but we still were fiercely proud of our excellent league.

A change began to happen though which created a situation that we were not ready for, nor had we ever considered probable.

The VFL began to be very successful at attracting the best talent to leave their own state league to join a VFL club.

In the early 1970's Craig McKellar joined Richmond, Ray Huppatz joined Footscray and Malcolm Blight joined North Melbourne. Each of these players left the Woodville Football Club, which was an expansion team that entered the senior SANFL competition in 1964. Losing those 3 bloody good players dealt them a blow they never recovered from. We had lost players earlier than that, but it was always a stray player here and there. This concerted recruiting by VFL teams began to have an effect, one we were slow to recognize until the later 1970's when Graham Cornes, Russell Ebert & Rick Davies all left, quickly followed by Kym Hodgeman, Bruce Abernathy, Danny Hughes, Mark Williams, Greg Phillips, Tony Antrobus, Mark Naley, Stephen Kernahan, Dwayne Russell, Bruce Lindner, Peter Motley, Craig Bradley, Steven Stretch, Greg Anderson and more.

Of the few players I listed above, eight of them came from Port Adelaide.

It was something we could not fight from the SANFL, so Port's determination was that if we couldn't beat them, we had to join them.

Thus was born Port's determination to become what was then a VFL team.

We knew to do so we had to make compromises, we made them, they hurt, but they were necessary. We accept that.

What we wanted was to have our best players stay with us, we want to win footy games, we want to win flags, we have been successful within the constraints of today's AFL.

In short we wanted to be the best by playing the best.

What we want now is just a small morsel, we want to say to the world we are still Port Adelaide, we have not surrendered our identity, but we have evolved. We want the right, just as every other club does, to have the option and the ability to show off where and what we have come from.

I do not believe we are asking for too much.

Spot on. I'm sick of hearing these idiots that know nothing about our club and weren't sitting there with us when we voted to move into the AFL and accept all the changes that had to occur as a result of it.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I'm not even going to bother trudging through the 13 pages of shit but please OP tell me, where exactly in that article did it ever say Port Adelaide were going to make a play to wear black and white and the prison bars?

The Magpies, who will retain their traditional black and white prison-bar guernsey, will become an operating division of a united Port Adelaide club but will not serve as a reserves side for the Power.

Where's the debate? I don't see it...

This thread should be moved to the Adelaide board as far as over reactions to this issue goes.

 

[PieNSauce]

No, our heritage dates back to 1870, we did not create a new identity, we evolved as was necessary to enter the AFL.

The changes we made, and accepted, was because of Collingwood. That's okay. We accepted there could not be two Magpies in the AFL. We also accepted there could not be two black & white's in the AFL.

But please do not try to force us to abandon our heritage, our roots, our identity that has be forged and tempered in the heat of battle for 140 years.

We do not want to play a heritage round against Collingwood, as that would cloud issues we have no wish to blur. But let us have our prison bars for one match a season against an opponent other than Collingwood..

Surely Collingwood do not feel intimidated by Port Adelaide, surely Collingwood are not frightened of Port Adelaide impinging on their persona, surely Collingwood do not feel threatened by Port Adelaide impacting on their own unique brand.

No, none of that would be even remotely possible. So why not be magnanimous and enter into the spirit of what heritage round means for each and every club within the AFL, not just those who have no possible perceived issue with Collingwood.



That's very easy to answer

We believed that the SANFL was every bit as good as the VFL, we had to take into account that we had less money, a smaller population, but we still were fiercely proud of our excellent league.

A change began to happen though which created a situation that we were not ready for, nor had we ever considered probable.

The VFL began to be very successful at attracting the best talent to leave their own state league to join a VFL club.

In the early 1970's Craig McKellar joined Richmond, Ray Huppatz joined Footscray and Malcolm Blight joined North Melbourne. Each of these players left the Woodville Football Club, which was an expansion team that entered the senior SANFL competition in 1964. Losing those 3 bloody good players dealt them a blow they never recovered from. We had lost players earlier than that, but it was always a stray player here and there. This concerted recruiting by VFL teams began to have an effect, one we were slow to recognize until the later 1970's when Graham Cornes, Russell Ebert & Rick Davies all left, quickly followed by Kym Hodgeman, Bruce Abernathy, Danny Hughes, Mark Williams, Greg Phillips, Tony Antrobus, Mark Naley, Stephen Kernahan, Dwayne Russell, Bruce Lindner, Peter Motley, Craig Bradley, Steven Stretch, Greg Anderson and more.

Of the few players I listed above, eight of them came from Port Adelaide.

It was something we could not fight from the SANFL, so Port's determination was that if we couldn't beat them, we had to join them.

Thus was born Port's determination to become what was then a VFL team.

We knew to do so we had to make compromises, we made them, they hurt, but they were necessary. We accept that.

What we wanted was to have our best players stay with us, we want to win footy games, we want to win flags, we have been successful within the constraints of today's AFL.

In short we wanted to be the best by playing the best.

What we want now is just a small morsel, we want to say to the world we are still Port Adelaide, we have not surrendered our identity, but we have evolved. We want the right, just as every other club does, to have the option and the ability to show off where and what we have come from.

I do not believe we are asking for too much.

Finally a commonsense post from a Port supporter. Frankly I doubt whether the majority of Collingwood supporters would give a fat rats if you wear the prison bars in a heritage game once a year. I certainly don't care. Personally I'm happy for the real Port fans who now have one club although they still have to live with two banners. For the record, I do believe that the whole premise of the OP was totally flawed and probably intentionally inflammatory but to be honest, you won't get reeled in if you don't bite is my theory.

 

[Scodog10]

i couldnt care less TBH.

Well your's is a very insular view then and would be very much in the minority. Collingwood were well within their rights to lobby against PAFC using the black and white as well as the magpies moniker, that does not mean that the AFL had to listen to them. The AFL ultimately did and IMO rightfully so, as it may have impacted on the image of the Collingwood football club. I don't have an issue with PAFC wearing there jumper in heritage matches because it is there heritage (unless against Collingwood for clash reasons), but to wear it permanently can't and won't ever be an option.

Also it's obvious that the AFL would never allow my previous hypothetical or similar such hyperthetical's that could be put forward. But the reason I used that was because the chances of the PAFC ever wearing the prison bars permanently is just as likely for the exact same reasons.

I bear no grudge toward the PAFC and what they've achieved, in both the SANFL and AFL, it has been a tremendous effort and now with the one club philosophy they have paved the way for continued success. But some, like the op, have chosen to make this a Collingwood v Port Adelaide issue which is wrong as the merger has nothing to do with us.

 

[PieNSauce]

For what it's worth, despite some of the trolling in this thread I do have to say it's been fairly educational for both sides of the argument IMHO. I for one have a better understanding of why the fans of interstate clubs feel the way they do and also of their history. I can't knock that. I also believe that a lot of the old Anti-Victorian stereotypes have been debunked too. I'm not convinced that too many really understood the evolution of the VFL to what it is today and I wouldn't even be surprised to find that the press and the fans in those states were fed more than a little misinformation in the early days of the expansion. It stands to reason that in the circumstances there's going to be a little angst but in the end I guess the lesson to be learned is that everyone has a right to feel proud of their club's history but shouldn't expect that anyone else is going to give a damn.

 

[Monkey King]

You need to compare apples with apples...

The "50%" is more to do with population size IMO, Victoria has three times the SA population, so you are likely to have three time as many talented kids...

They are apples mate. This is about football competitions from certain states and the talent within them. Apples and apples. Seems you want the SANFL to be weighted according to SA's population variable, which makes no sense whatsoever when we're just looking at outright quality of competition from top to bottom.

Back in the old days SA's population was a lot closer to Victoria's and I think the talent and quality of players in the VFL and SANFL would have been close.

Read what I replied to and then check this out ...

Victoria pop 1949 - 2.1m
SA population 49' - 637,000
WA population 49' - 502,000
Link

Seems you've just gone with the vibe of what you want to believe, when in actual fact, population discrepancy was even greater back then than it is now.

It's not a far stretch AT ALL to suggest that, as it is these days, Victoria harboured around 50% of the countries top tier talent and that consequently, the quality of VFL would have been higher.

I know that pisses a lot of SANFL and WAFL supporters off, which is not my intention, but it's just simple common sense to me.

 

[_Christoh_]

I think PAFC wanting to be the Magpies in the AFL was buried a long time ago and we only want to roll out the Prison bars on special occasions.

We are really blessed to have 2 great jumpers and a great clash jumper too. Some clubs dont even have one.

Do you Collingwood guys ever remember your former President (McAllister??) saying when Port entered the competition that if we finished above you on the ladder 3 years running we could wear our Prison Bars. My memory of exactly what he said is a bit hazy so it may have been slightly different. But for the record we finished above you 5 years in a row.

You owe us

 

[_Christoh_]

For what it's worth, despite some of the trolling in this thread I do have to say it's been fairly educational for both sides of the argument IMHO. I for one have a better understanding of why the fans of interstate clubs feel the way they do and also of their history. I can't knock that. I also believe that a lot of the old Anti-Victorian stereotypes have been debunked too. I'm not convinced that too many really understood the evolution of the VFL to what it is today and I wouldn't even be surprised to find that the press and the fans in those states were fed more than a little misinformation in the early days of the expansion. It stands to reason that in the circumstances there's going to be a little angst but in the end I guess the lesson to be learned is that everyone has a right to feel proud of their club's history but shouldn't expect that anyone else is going to give a damn.

Good post

As long as we keep not giving a damn about each other till next year it will make for a good round 1 2011.

 

[PieNSauce]

I think PAFC wanting to be the Magpies in the AFL was buried a long time ago and we only want to roll out the Prison bars on special occasions.

We are really blessed to have 2 great jumpers and a great clash jumper too. Some clubs dont even have one.

Do you Collingwood guys ever remember your former President (McAllister??) saying when Port entered the competition that if we finished above you on the ladder 3 years running we could wear our Prison Bars. My memory of exactly what he said is a bit hazy so it may have been slightly different. But for the record we finished above you 5 years in a row.

You owe us

rofl. Yeah right! So you'll acknowledge that there would be significantly more AFL fans who will say you don't even have one good jumper and that says nothing of that pitiful club song.

As for McAllister, well he was a bit of fun but in the end he screwed Collingwood up roughly in the same way Kennett is trying to do to Hawthorn. Who gives a fat rats what he said.

 

[PieNSauce]

Good post

As long as we keep not giving a damn about each other till next year it will make for a good round 1 2011.

lol... Yep!

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Yeah, far from Black and White my friend (no pun intended)
There was no Always to it. Till the 90's the league was still semi-professional. The players dreamed to play Football for their favorite club not necessarily cross the country.



This

The VFL was for many year the "first among equals" but it wasn't till the 70's that the larger Victorian market was able to consistantly lure West Aussies to the VFL purely though the transfer fees generated in a bigger media area.

The SANFL was traditionally stronger than the WAFL and able to resist and maintain there players longer.

Still til the 80's many a champion never went to the VFL. Why would they when the as I said before the 3 leagues where only semi-professional. Guys had day jobs because footy wasn't going to pay the bills. Why uproot the family cross country when you already play in a quality league and you have a good job. Stephen Michael turned down many an offer to play in the VFL because he had a good job and young family in Perth. The quality in the WAFL was obviously good enough to develope and maintain a player of his quality as he also excelled in SoO and was an All Australian Captain.

I don't blame the Vic's for having such a poor appreciation of the game outside their border. Where the misunderstandings happen is from the AFL's lazy handling of the Games history. When Footballing history is concerned the AFL wears its VFL hat even though it is now the Governing body of the Sport.
Out of the 23 Legends of the poorly named "Australian Football" Hall of Fame only 2 players are from WA and SA and only 1 never played in the VFL (Barrie Robran).
At the same time NSW has 2 and Tasmania has 3. 16 other are Victorian (Jezza being Austrian born).
Now that clearly that is out of kilter to what is truely representitive of the greats of the Game to say the least. It's a bullish manipulation of history and disrepectful to the contributions of West and South Australians to our game. Robran didn't come from a vacuum.
What it also says though is that the great players of NSW and Tas where more likely to go play in the VFL because of its geographic poximity and that there own leagues where a clear step below.
On the other hand the WAFL and SANFL where clearly strong enough to nulify almost all pull to the VFL til the 80's and that they were at a quality where players like Ken Farmer, Barrie Robran, George Doig and Stephen Michael could thrive in the environment. To be the best you have to play and beat the best, clearly they WAFL and SANFL were permiting them to do that.

As for Port Adelaide and their nickname and colours, well the AFL are pricks so nothing will change. They can't have both and the nickname is too far an encroachment on Collingwoods entity. I really don't see any problem with the Power wearing the Prison Bars in the odd game (more often than heritage round). It is bullshit that the AFL won't let PAFC use just Black and White while Fitzroy/Brisbane and Adelaide have used very similar colours. Geelong and Carlton use the same colours and the AFL are happy to let Freo wear a Jersey not too different to traditional Sydney when they aren't playing the Swans.
Clearly the Collingwood stripes aren't exclusive as we have North and Hawthorn with that pattern. Geelong didn't lose their mind with Adelaide using a hoop pattern.
This years GF had it's clash jersey debate and everyone survived.
If Collingwood hadn't inverted their Jumper 10 years ago then the Black based Prison Bars could really have worked, they have clearly enough difference.

How in the world do leagues overseas do it?
NBA and NFL teams using white at home. The Philli Eagles, NY Jets both had very similar green uniforms for decades, same goes for the NY Giants and the Buffalo Bills with blue.

Soccer teams have been mentioned and many of them had similar names like Devils, Reds, Red Devils, no one gets confused between Liverpool and ManUtd or Everton and Chelsea.

There should be only one Magpies. Don't think we can really do a CFL with Roughriders and the Rough Riders.

The part I have bolded, never a more factual word been written. I also don't blame the Victorians. It is the AFL fault they have not sold the true history of the game to the whole country.

 

[_Christoh_]

rofl. Yeah right! So you'll acknowledge that there would be significantly more AFL fans who will say you don't even have one good jumper and that says nothing of that pitiful club song.

As for McAllister, well he was a bit of fun but in the end he screwed Collingwood up roughly in the same way Kennett is trying to do to Hawthorn. Who gives a fat rats what he said.

Yeah you guys got a history of whacky Presidents.

Pleeeese not even one good jumper

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=729226&highlight=AJL+Round+16

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=702232

 

[PieNSauce]

The part I have bolded, never a more factual word been written. I also don't blame the Victorians. It is the AFL fault they have not sold the true history of the game to the whole country.

Which is precisely the point I was making. It seems that interstate fans were sold some rubbish about tha AFL being a new competition which by virtue of its very incorporation is not true. The simple truth in black and white is that the AFL and the VFL are one and the same thing. For that to be palatable outside Victoria it does not surprise me that plenty of BS has been put about over the years.

Of course IMO that does not make it any less a national competition but the AFL do nothing to clarify the true history of the competition for fear of alienating its expansion clubs. My feeling is that over time that issue will go away of its own accord but for now it will remain a sticking point between supporters from different states.

 

[PieNSauce]

Yeah you guys got a history of whacky Presidents.

Pleeeese not even one good jumper

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=729226&highlight=AJL+Round+16

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=702232

Next you'll be telling me that those polls mean something. They tell you precisely as much as you'd like to read into them but hey, that's your right. I don't like your jumper and that's my right. The only truly believable poll is to ask what percentage of each club's supporters likes its own jumper. Collingwood always score close to the worst in any poll that allows supporters from other clubs to rank us and I'm sure I don't need to explain the reasons for that!

 

[P.A.F.C]

They cannot ignore their history just because they changed competitions. It would be like the Milwaukee Brewers ignoring their history before they were moved into the National League.

It's redundant anyway as long as the AFL does not have heritage rounds and heritage jumpers. It's actually only a problem if the AFL does something stupid like schedule Port Adelaide and Collingwood to play in Heritage Round. Collingwood didn't even participate in the last Heritage Round, because it would have meant wearing their clash (and historical) jumper in a home game. This prevent their opponents from celebrating their heritage, because it created a clash.

Port Adelaide's history includes the prison bar jumper. Include all the demarcations you like, nothing is going to change the connection Port Adelaide people feel to that jumper. To demand that they do is something the AFL simply cannot legislate on.

Yep. The club don't back away from the fact that we wore magenta. Look at the Heritage strips that the club have wore.

The other two times we've worn a heritage strip, it's been the Prison Bars. So, the other strips have been used half the amount of times, even though they were both only worn for short periods of time. The Prison Bars were worn for decades and became synonymous with Port Adelaide.

I agree that it's only a problem if there's a heritage round. Drop that(Which it looks like it has been) and there won't be a club push for the Prison Bars. But having said that, you can't pretend that it's not part of the clubs history. I laughed at the poster that said that 'You changed it to that, so that's your heritage'. Lolwat? That makes no sense.

 

[Monkey King]

On the other hand the WAFL and SANFL where clearly strong enough to nulify almost all pull to the VFL til the 80's

Not dismissing the point entirely, but one consideration in respect to this is that the world started getting a lot smaller around the same time and because of this, a national stage became viable for the first time.

SANFL and WAFL fans say it's just a coincidence and the VFL just happened to be the strongest league at that time - or SANFL fans that their league was also pursuing the national option - but I suggest that had a national stage become viable 30 years earlier, the VFL would still have been the one to take the mantle, due to financial (revenue) strength and being a stronger league in depth of quality.

You can cite top players who didn't make the shift pre-80's, and I can name those who did, starting from the 60's and peaking before the VFL went national. Like the fat kid on the see-saw, the weight of player shifts fell to the stronger league and that it happened over time relates as much to society developing the means to nationalize as it does to league strength in earlier times; and as noted previously, slow movement from semi to fully-professional meant the incentives for some to make the shift just weren't strong enough, and their league had plenty of great players all the same. By the 80's though these changes were in full swing.

I am not saying the SANFL and WAFL weren't significant leagues or that they didn't produce some of the greatest to have played the game. Certainly the recognition of many players is lacking when compared to their VFL counterparts. As a whole league though, I've stated my reason why common sense dictates the depth of quality in VFL was generally always stronger. Additional to this is from the time player movements started, every player shift weakened one league and strengthened the VFL further, which means on that premise alone VFL had been stronger for some time before it went national.

 

[invinciBlues]

Love how the instant it is Collignwood everyone takes the other side.

Now seriously other Victorian teams, if some upstart team came into the AFL demanding to take your identity would you just roll over and let them.

Look forward to your responses.

You mean say if Sturt was admitted instead of Port? Wouldn't have a problem with it. Carlton is the Navy Blues and Sturt the Double Blues.

Carlton doesn't own the colour "Blue"... it is ours though. Maybe give them a different nick name to avoid confusion, but I'd like to think they'd let them keep their guernsey and their colours.

 

[FuManchu]

Our heritage as a football club is the B&W you dill. Without the success of our footy club finishing as premiers 34 times and second 35 times up until 1997 we wouldn't have won the right to enter the AFL.


Are you that daft! It's amazing the arrogance of you Victorians. Up until the 70's the strength of the SANFL was comparable to that of the VFL, at times it may have even been stronger given we only had 8 clubs until 1964.
To say we joined the VFL is crap. We joined the league which was known as the AFL. The arrogant stupid move the VFL made in trying to turn itself into the national league is now forever written in stone but the fact is back in the day when the league was formed it should've been formed with the WAFL & SANFL. There should've been 2 SANFL teams (Port & Norwood) in the comp, 2 WAFL teams and 8 VFL teams moved into a new league, but we live with the mistakes and arrogance of the VFL and now there are too many teams in Victoria, and worse for Port we live with the stupidity of the SANFL and their anger at the VFL as they refused to entertain talk of the SANFL moving teams into the AFL, until thankfully Port forced the SANFL's hand and the Crows were formed.

Therefore SANFL flags we won in the past may have been close to the equivalence of VFL flags pre-1970's but after that there is no denying that as the AFL formed it would make no sense for the biggest club in SA to just stay in the SANFL when an opportunity came for it to join the BRAND NEW move to form an AFL. The SANFL was declining and the VFL/AFL was becoming the top comp so it would only ever make sense to pursue the dream of the top league when we'd been so dominant in our own league.

Geez I could keep going but stupidity like this is just blinding.

If the SANFL was the equal, (which we all know it wasnt, because Vic clubs did all the big recruiting of most of the big name players from interstate) then the SANFL should have taken the running and tried to nationalise their comp.


But you go on believing that the SANFL comp was equal, all of us in the know will humour you to some degree.

BTW, the VFL is the AFL, just a name change and a few interstate clubs added to send money our way. thanks for that. The AFL acknowledge all games and flags won within the VFL until it changed its name. And to confirm that the AFL was the old VFL, the VFL prior to 1990, had 3 interstate clubs playing under the banner of the VFL.

VFL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SANFL
AFL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SANFL


Anyone believing anything else, truly is the epitome of daft, stupid and a dill

 

[P.A.F.C]

Psht Centrals are better than Collingwood

Buckets McKenzie>>>>>>>>>Darren Jolly.

 

[Pj.Rj.Hj]

Not dismissing the point entirely, but one consideration in respect to this is that the world started getting a lot smaller around the same time and because of this, a national stage became viable for the first time.

SANFL and WAFL fans say it's just a coincidence and the VFL just happened to be the strongest league at that time - or SANFL fans that their league was also pursuing the national option - but I suggest that had a national stage become viable 30 years earlier, the VFL would still have been the one to take the mantle, due to financial (revenue) strength and being a stronger league in depth of quality.

You can cite top players who didn't make the shift pre-80's, and I can name those who did, starting from the 60's and peaking before the VFL went national. Like the fat kid on the see-saw, the weight of player shifts fell to the stronger league and that it happened over time relates as much to society developing the means to nationalize as it does to league strength in earlier times; and as noted previously, slow movement from semi to fully-professional meant the incentives for some to make the shift just weren't strong enough, and their league had plenty of great players all the same. By the 80's though these changes were in full swing.

I am not saying the SANFL and WAFL weren't significant leagues or that they didn't produce some of the greatest to have played the game. Certainly the recognition of many players is lacking when compared to their VFL counterparts. As a whole league though, I've stated my reason why common sense dictates the depth of quality in VFL was generally always stronger. Additional to this is from the time player movements started, every player shift weakened one league and strengthened the VFL further, which means on that premise alone VFL had been stronger for some time before it went national.

Oh I agree. I'm sorry if I left the impression of a mere coincidence. There are clear numerous debates crossing each other in this thread. Interesting stuff.
Right or Wrong the WA and SA impression is often that of a Victoria who viewed the rest of the nations comps as more farm leagues where West and South Aussies would compare it more to the strength of the English top teir of domesic soccer (VFL) to the that of France (SANFL) and the Neatherlands (WAFL).