thank god the port adelaide jumper issue is put to rest

[The Jaguar]

I'm sorry to be repetitive but you both know (or maybe you're too young to know,) that the VFL has always been seen by all elite players in this country as the premier competition. Top SANFL players, WAFL players and others aspired to play in the VFL because it was seen as the premier competition in the country. Deny that fact all you like but you will find that there is significant proof if you're prepared to open your eyes.

I know that nothing I say will make you agree just as there is nothing you can say that will make me agree with you so it's a pretty pointless argument and made moreso when you flatly refuse to acknowledge facts.

That is total rubbish.

Some players from the SANFL/WAFL moved to the VFL in the 70's because the VFL clubs that could afford it started offering more money to these guys. As a result of having more quality players in the league the standard of the game in Victoria began to increase.

You can't seriously believe that the VFL was superior to the SANFL and WAFL back in the 50's and 60's (and of course any time before then) when all three leagues were barely semi-professional?!

 

[tribey]

lol... Do you think that the fact that the VFL was a richer competition and managed to attract the elite players from around the country did not make it the elite competition? I'm afraid you just shot yourself in the foot with that comment.

Went Broke??? WTF? When did that news break? Source????

More than half the VFL clubs were in the red after ridiculous arms race spending beyond their means - see your own board's separate factions hiring Jack Cahill and John Kennedy as head coach on the same day.

 

[King_Tredrea]

As an outsider it seems to me to be quite simple...

Port Adelaide Magpies formed in the 1800's

Dominate SANFL in latter part of 1900's...

Get admitted to AFL in 1997...

Port enters AFL under new nickname (thanks to Collingwood's analness)

SANFL doesn't want to lose Port team so forces split

New SANFL team is formed - the PAMFC

Both teams struggle thanks to split identity

Both teams merge today

?????????????????

Profit

best post in the history of bf

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I'm sorry to be repetitive but you both know (or maybe you're too young to know,) that the VFL has always been seen by all elite players in this country as the premier competition. Top SANFL players, WAFL players and others aspired to play in the VFL because it was seen as the premier competition in the country. Deny that fact all you like but you will find that there is significant proof if you're prepared to open your eyes.

I know that nothing I say will make you agree just as there is nothing you can say that will make me agree with you so it's a pretty pointless argument and made moreso when you flatly refuse to acknowledge facts.

First of all Philzgr8 I agree with what you are saying, but you alo know they went to play for money not to play in the VFL, why on earth would people move family's or in fact leave family's in one state just to play the same game in some other state if it was not for money?

Being a West Australian we all knew the VFL was the strongest of the 3 main state league comps in the country. It still does not change the fact that it was in fact a state league competition though. It was not a national competition, was not recognised as one and was not marketed or presented as one.

And again this is why the AFL distinctly call them VFL/AFL premierships. It recognises that the VFL were state based and the AFL are national titles.

In victorian clubs cases they never changed comps so they are rightly counted and dam well should be.

I guess what a few of the Port boys are asking you is to acknowledge that a VFL flag won in 1965 was in fact a flag won in a state based competition and is not a national flag as such. it is counted though as a flag in our tally because the competition we played in became the AFL, but yes clearly it was no bigger achievement at that time in winning a WAFL or SANFL flag.

I think this is what ticks most outside of Victoria because we think you actually believe you won national flags back before the comp was national. Not necessarily you mate but the majority simply can't acknowledge the obvious.

 

[PieNSauce]

lol. Believe what you will guys, I'm over talking to brick walls. You just add weight to the legend that is the Port Adelaide chip on the shoulder. Have fun with it!

 

[bradrowe#32]

Beautiful. I think we have a young Dovoevsky in our midst.

My favourite "Dovoevsky" book is Crime & Punishment.

 

[FuManchu]

To Wikipedia!...

Looks like one flag and a lot of used bits of toilet paper hanging next to it. Why would you adorn your one flag with bits of shit?

 

[FuManchu]

From Port's own website, talking about their history:

In 1997 the club reached another landmark in its history by joining the country’s national competition – the Australian Football League.
As surprising as it sounds, the players did not always wear the traditional black and white in its SANFL days. For its first game back in 1870, the players donned a blue and white guernsey with a pink cap!
Someone must have come to their senses however, as they changed to the famous black and white colours in 1902, which Port Adelaide wore right through to 1996 (up until AFL entry).

Says it all really, wore different colours ( pink cap lol, nithe boyths)

Changed to black and white in 1902, after Collingwood had been wearing black and white.

and then this little piece just to remind you all that they have only one flag that counts

..........and won the club’s first AFL Premiership in 2004.

But I do like this little bit too, because it shows that they are still the SANFL's bitch and only are in the AFL at the SANFL's behest:

making it the obvious choice for the second SANFL licence to join the AFL, which the club was awarded in 1994.

That is Port's history, in their own words.

1. the nancy boys wore pink

2. They only have one flag

3. They exist only at the whim of the SANFL

 

[simba_]

wrong. Those flags win in 98 and 99 were won by the PAMFC, not the PAFC.

they were won by Port Adelaide. nothing i said was wrong you just differentiated between which Port Adelaide club. it doesn't matter about the One merger disregard it - those flags were still won by Port it's always been the same place same people, I had two teams from 97 onwards because we entered the AFL and stayed in the local league. it doesn't matter what you collywobbles think or which idiots were sucked into "identity crisis" propaganda and now wear crows scarves.

 

[FuManchu]

they were won by Port Adelaide. nothing i said was wrong you just differentiated between which Port Adelaide club. it doesn't matter about the One merger disregard it - those flags were still won by Port it's always been the same place same people, I had two teams from 97 onwards because we entered the AFL and stayed in the local league. it doesn't matter what you collywobbles think or which idiots were sucked into "identity crisis" propaganda and now wear crows scarves.

well according to a lot of Port fans in similar discussions, they say the Port that remained in the SANFL is not the same Port that is in the AFL

I guess the one test would be if the Port that remained in the SANFL and the AFL Port trained together, had the same admin etc etc.

Did that happen Simba? Or was there a lot of animosity between the 2 entities?

 

[Smoky]

In 1870 they weren't called the Magpies... it was the cobbledockers or something???

And for all those people out their claiming that Port should wear black and white and call themselves the Magpies... why don't we just get 18 teams called the St Kilda Magpies, Collingwood Magpies, Port Magpies, Fremantle Magpies, Essendon Magpies etc and all wear black and white?

 

[Portsmeff]

this hysteria from Collingwood supporters is fascinating. Didnt think you guys would be so insecure. And this wont put the jumper issue to rest, prob the opposite. As far as we know, there is no legal document preventing us wearing our prison bars. Just a handshake agreement between Collingwood officials and the AFL at the time of our promotion to the AFL. Would love to see us take it to court and win. Theres only so much Collingwood can do to deny us of who we are, and our history

 

[bw2011]

port adelaide are a second tier team port power are a afl team ,whats the problem ???? collingwood have all the rights get over it

 

[Mr Eagle]

As far as we know, there is no legal document preventing us wearing our prison bars.

Your licence agreement makes it quite clear that you are the AFL's bitch and will wear whatever the AFL tells you to. And you will call the AFL 'mistress' at all times.


(OK yes I'm paraphrasing, but you get my point! Unless you can convince the AFL to back you, you're stuffed.)

 

[P.A.F.C]

From Port's own website, talking about their history:



Says it all really, wore different colours ( pink cap lol, nithe boyths)

Changed to black and white in 1902, after Collingwood had been wearing black and white.

and then this little piece just to remind you all that they have only one flag that counts



But I do like this little bit too, because it shows that they are still the SANFL's bitch and only are in the AFL at the SANFL's behest:



That is Port's history, in their own words.

1. the nancy boys wore pink

2. They only have one flag

3. They exist only at the whim of the SANFL

How is this shit not in Bay13?

Yes, we wore pink. Pink or magenta did not have many of the connotations back then that it does now.

Yes, our first AFL flag was in 2004? How does this prove anything?

 

[PortBrillance]

From Port's own website, talking about their history:



Says it all really, wore different colours ( pink cap lol, nithe boyths)

Changed to black and white in 1902, after Collingwood had been wearing black and white.

and then this little piece just to remind you all that they have only one flag that counts



But I do like this little bit too, because it shows that they are still the SANFL's bitch and only are in the AFL at the SANFL's behest:



That is Port's history, in their own words.

1. the nancy boys wore pink

2. They only have one flag

3. They exist only at the whim of the SANFL

1 AFL flag you dumb ****.

Typical collingwood fans, so insecure. Bruce Webber was right, we should of got into the league in 1990 and MADE the scum from Victoria Park change their colours. Dw though, we will wear the B&W Prison Bars soon, once eddies gone it will be a free-for-all

 

[FuManchu]

1 AFL flag you dumb ****.

Typical collingwood fans, so insecure. Bruce Webber was right, we should of got into the league in 1990 and MADE the scum from Victoria Park change their colours. Dw though, we will wear the B&W Prison Bars soon, once eddies gone it will be a free-for-all

After I finished laughing at this post, imagining the indignation you felt.

I came up with a question for you and all you inbreds over there in the land time forgot:

Why was it so important for Port to get into the AFL if they thought their 400 flags in the SANFL were the pinnacle of football?

 

[Primetime Pricey]

they were won by Port Adelaide. nothing i said was wrong you just differentiated between which Port Adelaide club. it doesn't matter about the One merger disregard it - those flags were still won by Port it's always been the same place same people, I had two teams from 97 onwards because we entered the AFL and stayed in the local league. it doesn't matter what you collywobbles think or which idiots were sucked into "identity crisis" propaganda and now wear crows scarves.

actually it does matter as i was a Port Adelaide FC supporter before they joined the AFL and is now the reason why i dont follow the SANFL anymore as it was a different club and this was confirmed by Bucky Cunningham in 1997.

its unbelievable that there are Port fans out there that think or thought the PAMFC was the real Magpies lol. It is so simple.

Like i said im happy for the merger as it confirms that they were different but now the club and its fans can move on.

 

[QPower]

Bay 13 for this thread mods.

 

[Scodog10]

As far as we know, there is no legal document preventing us wearing our prison bars. Just a handshake agreement between Collingwood officials and the AFL at the time of our promotion to the AFL. Would love to see us take it to court and win. Theres only so much Collingwood can do to deny us of who we are, and our history

There is nothing Collingwood can do to stop Port Adelaide from wearing whatever jumper they like. However as the AFL own the rights to each of the AFL clubs they will be the ones that never allow Port Adelaide to wear the prison bar jumper (on a permanent basis i should add). That is also the reason why it isn't possible for Port Adelaide to take the matter to court. Have you ever not wondered why the AFL has to approve of a club's clash guernsey?

However there is some good news due to the success of the merger the PAFC will be allowed to wear its prison bar jumper once again, which it has been denied since 1997, the thing is that the club will be wearing it in the SANFL.

Also it would be foolhardy of any Collingwood supporter to deny the past deeds of the PAFC as they are quite spectacular, despite being in a different league.

 

[estibador]

This is bizarre.

There's no world in which the PAFC would have been allowed to continues using the nickname "Magpies" once they entered a competition where one of the biggest and most famous clubs was already using the name, regardless of what Collingwood thought of that.

This has to be the most irrational reasoning I've ever seen on BigFooty - How could it possibly have one iota to do with "Collingwood's analness"?

Yeah my bad, the analness was supposed to be a reference to the jumper not the nickname.

 

[Pj.Rj.Hj]

I'm sorry to be repetitive but you both know (or maybe you're too young to know,) that the VFL has always been seen by all elite players in this country as the premier competition. Top SANFL players, WAFL players and others aspired to play in the VFL because it was seen as the premier competition in the country. Deny that fact all you like but you will find that there is significant proof if you're prepared to open your eyes.

Yeah, far from Black and White my friend (no pun intended)
There was no Always to it. Till the 90's the league was still semi-professional. The players dreamed to play Football for their favorite club not necessarily cross the country.

You alo know they went to play for money not to play in the VFL, why on earth would people move family's or in fact leave family's in one state just to play the same game in some other state if it was not for money?

Being a West Australian we all knew the VFL was the strongest of the 3 main state league comps in the country. It still does not change the fact that it was in fact a state league competition though. It was not a national competition, was not recognised as one and was not marketed or presented as one.

And again this is why the AFL distinctly call them VFL/AFL premierships. It recognises that the VFL were state based and the AFL are national titles.

In victorian clubs cases they never changed comps so they are rightly counted and dam well should be.

I guess what a few of the Port boys are asking you is to acknowledge that a VFL flag won in 1965 was in fact a flag won in a state based competition and is not a national flag as such. it is counted though as a flag in our tally because the competition we played in became the AFL, but yes clearly it was no bigger achievement at that time in winning a WAFL or SANFL flag.

I think this is what ticks most outside of Victoria because we think you actually believe you won national flags back before the comp was national. Not necessarily you mate but the majority simply can't acknowledge the obvious.

This

The VFL was for many year the "first among equals" but it wasn't till the 70's that the larger Victorian market was able to consistantly lure West Aussies to the VFL purely though the transfer fees generated in a bigger media area.

The SANFL was traditionally stronger than the WAFL and able to resist and maintain there players longer.

Still til the 80's many a champion never went to the VFL. Why would they when the as I said before the 3 leagues where only semi-professional. Guys had day jobs because footy wasn't going to pay the bills. Why uproot the family cross country when you already play in a quality league and you have a good job. Stephen Michael turned down many an offer to play in the VFL because he had a good job and young family in Perth. The quality in the WAFL was obviously good enough to develope and maintain a player of his quality as he also excelled in SoO and was an All Australian Captain.

I don't blame the Vic's for having such a poor appreciation of the game outside their border. Where the misunderstandings happen is from the AFL's lazy handling of the Games history. When Footballing history is concerned the AFL wears its VFL hat even though it is now the Governing body of the Sport.
Out of the 23 Legends of the poorly named "Australian Football" Hall of Fame only 2 players are from WA and SA and only 1 never played in the VFL (Barrie Robran).
At the same time NSW has 2 and Tasmania has 3. 16 other are Victorian (Jezza being Austrian born).
Now that clearly that is out of kilter to what is truely representitive of the greats of the Game to say the least. It's a bullish manipulation of history and disrepectful to the contributions of West and South Australians to our game. Robran didn't come from a vacuum.
What it also says though is that the great players of NSW and Tas where more likely to go play in the VFL because of its geographic poximity and that there own leagues where a clear step below.
On the other hand the WAFL and SANFL where clearly strong enough to nulify almost all pull to the VFL til the 80's and that they were at a quality where players like Ken Farmer, Barrie Robran, George Doig and Stephen Michael could thrive in the environment. To be the best you have to play and beat the best, clearly they WAFL and SANFL were permiting them to do that.

As for Port Adelaide and their nickname and colours, well the AFL are pricks so nothing will change. They can't have both and the nickname is too far an encroachment on Collingwoods entity. I really don't see any problem with the Power wearing the Prison Bars in the odd game (more often than heritage round). It is bullshit that the AFL won't let PAFC use just Black and White while Fitzroy/Brisbane and Adelaide have used very similar colours. Geelong and Carlton use the same colours and the AFL are happy to let Freo wear a Jersey not too different to traditional Sydney when they aren't playing the Swans.
Clearly the Collingwood stripes aren't exclusive as we have North and Hawthorn with that pattern. Geelong didn't lose their mind with Adelaide using a hoop pattern.
This years GF had it's clash jersey debate and everyone survived.
If Collingwood hadn't inverted their Jumper 10 years ago then the Black based Prison Bars could really have worked, they have clearly enough difference.

How in the world do leagues overseas do it?
NBA and NFL teams using white at home. The Philli Eagles, NY Jets both had very similar green uniforms for decades, same goes for the NY Giants and the Buffalo Bills with blue.

Soccer teams have been mentioned and many of them had similar names like Devils, Reds, Red Devils, no one gets confused between Liverpool and ManUtd or Everton and Chelsea.

There should be only one Magpies. Don't think we can really do a CFL with Roughriders and the Rough Riders.

 

[seysearles]

I predict 12 pages

... and still going strong

 

[PieNSauce]

First of all Philzgr8 I agree with what you are saying, but you alo know they went to play for money not to play in the VFL, why on earth would people move family's or in fact leave family's in one state just to play the same game in some other state if it was not for money?

Being a West Australian we all knew the VFL was the strongest of the 3 main state league comps in the country. It still does not change the fact that it was in fact a state league competition though. It was not a national competition, was not recognised as one and was not marketed or presented as one.

And again this is why the AFL distinctly call them VFL/AFL premierships. It recognises that the VFL were state based and the AFL are national titles.

In victorian clubs cases they never changed comps so they are rightly counted and dam well should be.

I guess what a few of the Port boys are asking you is to acknowledge that a VFL flag won in 1965 was in fact a flag won in a state based competition and is not a national flag as such. it is counted though as a flag in our tally because the competition we played in became the AFL, but yes clearly it was no bigger achievement at that time in winning a WAFL or SANFL flag.

I think this is what ticks most outside of Victoria because we think you actually believe you won national flags back before the comp was national. Not necessarily you mate but the majority simply can't acknowledge the obvious.

Some points well made there I must say. None of that though diminishes the fact that premierships won in the one competition cannot be compared to those won in another and that the current competition is the same competition that was called the VFL albeit with the addition of some interstate clubs.

Certainly money was the main reason why elite interstate footballers came to Victoria and those who didn't stayed home for family reasons etc just as some players these days refuse to be traded to interstate clubs. The undeniable fact though is that because Victorian clubs were able to attract most of the elite interstate players who were prepared to move it was always considered as the elite competition. That is not to say that it was a national competition but that it was the competition that the elite strove to play in unless they had problems with the concept of moving interstate. Moreover, the fact that interstate clubs chose to play in the expanded VFL competition only serves to confirm its status as the premier competition. That it changes its name does nothing to change the fact that it is still the same competition.

All of that aside, I'm not saying that Port fans don't have a right to be justifiably proud of their heritage and history. I'm simply saying that it is of no consequence to anybody in the context of the competition that the founding clubs have always played in since they left the VFA. As I have already said, you don't hear founding club supporters running around spouting about the premierships they won in the VFA because they are not valid in the context of the current competition. Conversely, VFL/AFL premierships are valid in the context of the competition they play in and the addition of interstate clubs does not diminish those premierships although they are denoted as VFL/AFL for the purpose of differentiation.

To us, Port fans talking about SANFL premierships is the same as founding club fans talking about VFA premierships. Very nice but hardly of any consequence in the context of the current competition. It's not about putting Port fans down except that they see it that way and will argue until they are blue in the face about it. This is why most people including a significant number of non-Port South Australians see them as having some massive chip on their shoulder and the mother of all inferiority complexes.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Collingwood has had a black jumper with white stripes, and a white jumper with black stripes. Then they had a jumper that looked like a frikken barcode.

Never did they have prison bars.

Find the arguements from the Pies side hilarious.

So you'd have no issue with a new club coming in called the Cats and having hoops that are a bit closer together than yours?


Because that's what many in here are suggesting, that Collingwood should have no issue with Port coming innto the AFL as the MAgpies and keeping a jumper with black and white stripes.

Some of you are so beyond salvaging it just isn't funny.