Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[JustaBattler]

absolutely nothing. If in 15 months time we’re spinning our wheels Cripps would be well within his rights to chase success.

Re: tackling. my view on the tackling is we don’t have very clever or disciplined players. They collectively get sucked into the contest like moths and lose the ability to tackle/contain when the opposition spreads. So unless there’s a stoppage and the ball is more or less static, we allow a lot of easy spread which immediately results in low tackle numbers. If the players were more disciplined in their spacing they’d have an opportunity to pressure beyond the immediate zone of the ball.

spot on...

 

[Robbo's my hero]

we need a "der" emoji

It just worries me that we think statistics can explain everything. What happened to “it’s the vibe” as a plausible explanation?

 

[thylacine60]

or "we've always done it that way"..............

 

[Robbo's my hero]

the hurt level never changes..........syd and his fellow aboriginal players would have had full-on hatred and bile spat at them from every angle - how do you think he would have gone at victoria park where rather than abuse receiving recrimination it would get laughs - a competition for the most hateful comments

Syd was resourceful as well. For some reason Lee Adamson from Collingwood had a bee in his bonnet when he played on Syd. I’ve heard the story where Adamson called Syd yellow one day and he responded with “you must be colour blind mate”. Syd also used it to his advantage at a tribunal hearing when he was reported for whacking Adamson. Syd decided to embellish the reason for whacking him and claim provocation. Worked a treat.

There is no excuse for what happened 50 years ago and what continues to happen now. It just says more about the perpetrators than the victims. It’s sad to think that it still happens.

 

[thylacine60]

I think the comment from Syd was "He called me a black bastard".

 

[Jeremias]

By this logic we might as well play Lang every week because his huge 4-6 possession games have no impact on the team, I mean it's only one player after all? This logic is why we have been putrid for years, EVERY SINGLE SPOT should be earned and deserved. We have and continue to give spots to players because it is the norm for Carlton.

"Particularly when we don't have competition for that spot". It's strange to overlook that part here yet reference it later on.

Also can't believe you're even bothering to compare Lang to Betts.

We actually do have more competition for that spot than you think, we have Owies who is a small forward and did just draft two small forward prospects in Honey and Fraser Phillips. Not to mention mids that we seem to put everywhere BUT the midfield who could have potentially trained as forwards. NOT to mention the opportunity cost pre season of not targetting a need because of the intention to play Eddie. I am not even saying Eddie isn't deserving but so far it seems the best argument is what he brings off field? Lyons point which again I DO NOT 100% agree with is that we are not a finals side most likely why did we bring in a 30 odd year old after retiring a 30 odd year player? Just seems confused as was stated by Lyon.

OK, so you have identified that we have three younger options in Owies, Honey and Phillips. I'll ask again - how do you know their development is being hindered by Betts being at the club?

How anyone can suggest we didn't target a need because we have Eddie is beyond me. We didn't have Eddie when we were heavily into Papley and also had an interest in Butler. One was held to his contract, the other went elsewhere.

Wow speaking of not rewriting history firstly Rockliff left at the end of 2017 and Beams rumblings of off field issues has started, remembering he stepped down as captain in early 2018. Not exactly great leaders for the 2017 season.

Brisbane average list age at the end of 2016 was 22 years a 200 odd days, youngest in the comp and it was 23 years old and 128 days eend of 2017. So as mentioned Carlton adding a veteran cannot be compared to Brisbane adding a desperately needed born leader with multiple premierships.

Now talking about leadership? You said experience, and I showed you the experience they had and who played regularly. Leadership is a separate discussion.

You are also making it sound like Mayes, Lester and Bastinac are A graders. Which is nuts.

Never have I said anything remotely close to that. They were mentioned because they were all experienced players who played in a year when Brisbane supposedly had no experience playing...

 

[BlueAbroad]

Chatting with Baz from the Carlton Show

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

okay, the lynch mob will no doubt be hunting me down, but I wouldn't mind if Moore got some senior time before the end of the year.
He does have some tricks....why not play him before we go the sweeping cull at year's end....

In what position?

I'm not playing Moore ahead of McKay, McGovern, Casboult or Silvagni up forward, or ahead of Weitering, Jones or Marchbank down back. I'm not playing him as a tall winger ahead of Setterfield or Williamson.

We would need a lot of injuries for him to be in the frame I'd say.

I'd rather give an encouragement game to Owies, Ben Silvagni or any of the young draftees first.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

In what position?

I'm not playing Moore ahead of McKay, McGovern, Casboult or Silvagni up forward, or ahead of Weitering, Jones or Marchbank down back. I'm not playing him as a tall winger ahead of Setterfield or Williamson.

We would need a lot of injuries for him to be in the frame I'd say.

I'd rather give an encouragement game to Owies, Ben Silvagni or any of the young draftees first.

Right now, he shouldn't be ahead of any of our key forwards. Apart from Charles, we have a fit and firing forward structure.

The point being, based on the match report, he seems to be doing everything right and giving himself an opportunity.



Chances are, we're likely to cop a few injuries before the end of the year, so why not give him a go rather than just delist him at the end of the season? What was the point then in drafting him then in the first place if we don't even get a chance to see him? Krooz went down in the first game - so we're forced to bring in a ruckman who has been playing predominantly at VFL level, and a total of 7 AFL games in 4 years.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Right now, he shouldn't be ahead of any of our key forwards. Apart from Charles, we have a fit and firing forward structure.

The point being, based on the match report, he seems to be doing everything right and giving himself an opportunity.

View attachment 896991

Chances are, we're likely to cop a few injuries before the end of the year, so why not give him a go rather than just delist him at the end of the season? What was the point then in drafting him then in the first place if we don't even get a chance to see him? Krooz went down in the first game - so we're forced to bring in a ruckman who has been playing predominantly at VFL level, and a total of 7 AFL games in 4 years.

Moore won't be playing as a makeshift ruckman in the seniors. He's is far too short for that. We recruited Pittonet to be that backup ruckman for us. Forced sounds like we were losing out bringing in an average ruckman. Pitto was far from that.

We bought Moore in because Charlie, Harry and Gov were struggling with injuries in the preseason. Purely backup as a supplementary pick. Hugh Goddard was a genuine rookie pick for us and dominated the VFL last season. Took a bit to have enough injuries to get him a couple of games.

Players have to force their way in by being too good to ignore and have a place open up for them as well.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Moore won't be playing as a makeshift ruckman in the seniors. He's is far too short for that. We recruited Pittonet to be that backup ruckman for us. Forced sounds like we were losing out bringing in an average ruckman. Pitto was far from that.

We bought Moore in because Charlie, Harry and Gov were struggling with injuries in the preseason. Purely backup as a supplementary pick. Hugh Goddard was a genuine rookie pick for us and dominated the VFL last season. Took a bit to have enough injuries to get him a couple of games.

Players have to force their way in by being too good to ignore and have a place open up for them as well.

I wasn't suggesting that we bring him in as a ruckman. My point being that Pittonet spent 5 years at the Hawks for a total of 7 games, got a opportunity through an injury to Krooz, and has shown he is worthy to be on the list going forward. And how do we know that Pitto was far better than average ruckman in the 7 games he played at AFL level for Hawthorn like you suggest? Good VFL form? Because Moore has some pretty good VFL form as well.

Anyway, I didn't want to start a debate - I only suggested we at least give him a try before we give him the arse at the end of the year.

I'm done....QED

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I wasn't suggesting that we bring him in as a ruckman. My point being that Pittonet spent 5 years at the Hawks for a total of 7 games, got a opportunity through an injury to Krooz, and has shown he is worthy to be on the list going forward. And how do we know that Pitto was far better than average ruckman in the 7 games he played at AFL level for Hawthorn like you suggest? Good VFL form? Because Moore has some pretty good VFL form as well.

Anyway, I didn't want to start a debate - I only suggested we at least give him a try before we give him the arse at the end of the year.

I'm done....QED

We traded for Pitto as an upgrade on Phillips. We topped up with Moore off the football scrapheap.

Pittonet - 7 AFL games in 4 years (didn't play at any level in 2015 so assume he was injured), 64 VFL games - 21 times in their bests (5 times in 2019) - Note that McEvoy played 83 games out of a possible 92 and Ceglar was there too.

Moore - 8 AFL games in 4 years, 55 VFL games - 10 times in their bests (0 times in 2019). Richmond opted to go in with 1 tall forward only in many matches before recruiting Lynch. Scored 63 goals in those 55 VFL games.

What I know is the Hawks didn't want to lose Pittonet and the Tigers dumped Moore.

Moore needs a really good reserves season to show he is worthy of a call up ahead of the few ahead of him. Pittonet was recruited to be next in line behind Kreuzer while DeKoning develops. Good luck to him but it's is premature to think he deserves a shot based on one scratch match.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

We traded for Pitto as an upgrade on Phillips. We topped up with Moore off the football scrapheap.

Pittonet - 7 AFL games in 4 years (didn't play at any level in 2015 so assume he was injured), 64 VFL games - 21 times in their bests (5 times in 2019) - Note that McEvoy played 83 games out of a possible 92 and Ceglar was there too.

Moore - 8 AFL games in 4 years, 55 VFL games - 10 times in their bests (0 times in 2019). Richmond opted to go in with 1 tall forward only in many matches before recruiting Lynch. Scored 63 goals in those 55 VFL games.

What I know is the Hawks didn't want to lose Pittonet and the Tigers dumped Moore.

Moore needs a really good reserves season to show he is worthy of a call up ahead of the few ahead of him. Pittonet was recruited to be next in line behind Kreuzer while DeKoning develops. Good luck to him but it's is premature to think he deserves a shot based on one scratch match.

ok, sorry I even mentioned it

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

ok, sorry I even mentioned it

Nah, it's a discussion forum. Discussions, debates, arguments, dissenting opinions ... all welcome.

You're opinion is valid. I just don't agree. I'm also biased because I believe Liddle had a major hand in selecting Moore due to the Richmond connection.

 

[The Ian PrenderCast]

Evening all!

We've published a review of Saturday night's win for those interested in a listen. Links via our signatures.

Regards,

 

[Robbo's my hero]

I can confirm that Carlton is trending in Sunbury. Two supporters wearing Carlton merch in a Sunbury Cafe (I was one) this morning. No other AFL merch in sight.

 

[NZ Blue Boy]

Can someone help me ? I'm trying to find out who were Carlton's emergencies for the R1 game on 19March. Cannot locate it on the internet.

 

[BlueAbroad]

 

[Aphrodite]

Can someone help me ? I'm trying to find out who were Carlton's emergencies for the R1 game on 19March. Cannot locate it on the internet.

Pittonet, Williamson, O'Brien, Philp

Game Day - Rnd 1 - Carlton v Richmond Game Day Discussion

:carlton: V :richmond: Welcome back :blueheart: DOC :blueheart: NEW:- Jack Martin, Jack Newnes, Marc Pittonet (EMG), Sam Philp (EMG) Backs:20. Lachie Plowman14. Liam Jones15. Sam Docherty Half-backs:24. Nic Newman23. Jacob Weitering5. Sam Petrevski-Seton Centreline:18. Sam...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[HARKER]

What's good is we're able to replace that key personnel now.

If Chaz was fit, who goes out out of McKay, Casboult or McGov? If Kemp were fit who's he in for? Repeat for Fisher, Dow and Marchbank.

The only obvious one is maybe Newman for Willo. Even then we've got Newmans loss covered and it's good to have a kid in that spot.

Maybe Kreuz for Pitt? Given the way Pitto has been playing I think Kreuz will have a hard time getting back in as it is.

For the first time in God only knows how long we've got actual, factual DEPTH to cover these losses.


Did I just say we have depth?.....I can't believe I just said that... I think I need a lay down

Not taking the gloss of how we feel right now, but we'll need to see a lot more from many just yet.
There wouldn't be a team not saying the same thing after a good win.

Even last years wooden spooners would be saying - We're killing them right now and we still have Rankine, Brodie, Wright, Fiorini, Thompson, Flanders to come back in and we've just taken out 2RS nominations in the first three weeks.

I think every team feels they have depth the way we may here.
I agree it looks good for now and our first 30 players make sense.

 

[F_therest]

What's good is we're able to replace that key personnel now.

If Chaz was fit, who goes out out of McKay, Casboult or McGov? If Kemp were fit who's he in for? Repeat for Fisher, Dow and Marchbank.

The only obvious one is maybe Newman for Willo. Even then we've got Newmans loss covered and it's good to have a kid in that spot.

Maybe Kreuz for Pitt? Given the way Pitto has been playing I think Kreuz will have a hard time getting back in as it is.

For the first time in God only knows how long we've got actual, factual DEPTH to cover these losses.


Did I just say we have depth?.....I can't believe I just said that... I think I need a lay down

Yep we are able to replace all those guys adequately which is a testament to our list.

Arguably only Charlie, Newman and fisher are best 22 out of that list anyway.

I see pittonet ahead of kreuzer already.

Charlie - well covered with Levi, gov and mckay.
Newman - well covered by willo.
Fisher - fringe of our best 22...hasn't been in great form for some time.

 

[Coops93]

Not taking the gloss of how we feel right now, but we'll need to see a lot more from many just yet.
There wouldn't be a team not saying the same thing after a good win.

Even last years wooden spooners would be saying - We're killing them right now and we still have Rankine, Brodie, Wright, Fiorini, Thompson, Flanders to come back in and we've just taken out 2RS nominations in the first three weeks.

I think every team feels they have depth the way we may here.
I agree it looks good for now and our first 30 players make sense.

Wright flat out isn't best 22. He wouldn't even be best 25. I wouldn't be surprised if he's just delisted at the end of the year if they don't trade him. Looks like a flop despite some early flashes, unfortunately.

Fiorini and Brodie are not bet 22, either. Fiorini is unlucky to miss, though. Thompson is borderline, I probably wouldn't bring him in right now. Hard to say on Rankine and Flanders as neither have played, though I would suggest if fit Rankine is starting. Hard to see who'd be out for him at this stage, though...

The Suns really aren't missing many, if any, of the best 22. Miles might be the only one, but similar to Fiorini he's in that 20-25 sort of range.


I understand your point, but we've had fewer of our best 22 available than the Suns. We've also kept more or less the same team through the weeks so I don't think just saying coming off a win we just feel good. No one is glaringly bad and has to be dropped, even in the losses, which is far more than we've been able to say in the past. In the past you could watch a game and pick 2 or 3 guys who had stinkers and need to be out. not this season.

 

[HARKER]

Wright flat out isn't best 22. He wouldn't even be best 25. I wouldn't be surprised if he's just delisted at the end of the year if they don't trade him. Looks like a flop despite some early flashes, unfortunately.

Fiorini and Brodie are not bet 22, either. Fiorini is unlucky to miss, though. Thompson is borderline, I probably wouldn't bring him in right now. Hard to say on Rankine and Flanders as neither have played, though I would suggest if fit Rankine is starting. Hard to see who'd be out for him at this stage, though...

The Suns really aren't missing many, if any, of the best 22. Miles might be the only one, but similar to Fiorini he's in that 20-25 sort of range.


I understand your point, but we've had fewer of our best 22 available than the Suns. We've also kept more or less the same team through the weeks so I don't think just saying coming off a win we just feel good. No one is glaringly bad and has to be dropped, even in the losses, which is far more than we've been able to say in the past. In the past you could watch a game and pick 2 or 3 guys who had stinkers and need to be out. not this season.

Remember when many were pining about missing out on Wright for the Jaksch deal?
Seems as though it may have ultimately amounted to a loss either way.

We do have what genuinely seems to be a very talented squad, so it's now what we make of it.
Players Kemp, Philp, Honey, Dow, O'Brien, DeKoning, Stocker, Kennedy etc all seem very talented in their own ways, but just to develop them well and some may have to be a little more patient, than they may would otherwise care to.
Have to keep spirits up and develop, develop and then develop a little more and maybe soon we can genuinely 'show' that we have depth.

 

[Coops93]

Remember when many were pining about missing out on Wright for the Jaksch deal?
Seems as though it may have ultimately amounted to a loss either way.

We do have what genuinely seems to be a very talented squad, so it's now what we make of it.
Players Kemp, Philp, Honey, Dow, O'Brien, DeKoning, Stocker, Kennedy etc all seem very talented in their own ways, but just to develop them well and some may have to be a little more patient, than they may would otherwise care to.
Have to keep spirits up and develop, develop and then develop a little more and maybe soon we can genuinely 'show' that we have depth.

I think Wrights issues are very similar to Jaksch, lack of motivation and fire. Talented but doesn't really seem to care a whole lot.

Yeah I'm not trying to say out depth is elite and completely interchangeable, but just having any depth at all is new territory for this list. If a top 15 player went down in years gone by it was hugely damaging. But this year seemingly we're able to replace those guys to a decent degree. There's not a noticeable drop which is fantastic. Like you say we can develop those guys in the 2s and be able to be patient with them. It's fantastic.

 

[iAsbestos]

I think Wrights issues are very similar to Jaksch, lack of motivation and fire. Talented but doesn't really seem to care a whole lot.

Yeah I'm not trying to say out depth is elite and completely interchangeable, but just having any depth at all is new territory for this list. If a top 15 player went down in years gone by it was hugely damaging. But this year seemingly we're able to replace those guys to a decent degree. There's not a noticeable drop which is fantastic. Like you say we can develop those guys in the 2s and be able to be patient with them. It's fantastic.

Jaksh loved his Chai Lattes never chucked on size