Roast The Chronicles of Alan Richardson

[Present Not Past]

I'll be honest, and say this once. Otherwise, Sunshine and the rest of the censors here will just go nuts.

I think we have made another serious error. I do not rate Richardson as a coach, at all. I breathed a big sigh of relief 2 years ago when we passed on him - I felt we'd dodged a bullet.

And I hope - against all my fears - that he proves me wrong.

As I recall, at the end of 2011 the club was searching for a coach who would be a panacea to what Lyon had brought to the club (the Bubble etc). The club chose Watters and it looked like a smart choice at first.
What I think the Saints are searcking for now is someone more akin to Lyon - someone you can develop a coaching regimen and instill it into the players and their game.

 

[Persevering Saint]

is there anything particular you dont like?

Okay, I'll chuck this out, to start. He's not a premiership coach, other than in the Eastern Football League, and as an assistant has not been involved in one, either.

He coached Coburg in the VFL from 2000 to 2001 - no flag.
He was assistant coach at the Doggies in 2003-2005 - the Doggies were TERRIBLE, and Rohde got the sack. He left too, or was pushed out. Then Eade came in, and the Doggies went up.
He then went to Collingwood as a development manager from 2006-2007 - they made 8th and 6th. That's it. He leaves, they move into contention and a flag not long after.
He then went to the Bombers as an assistant from 2008 to 2010 - the Knights era. 2008, finished 12th with 8 wins. 2009 they were lucky to get to 8th. 2010 was so bad, they sacked Knights for the saviour Hird, and out went Richardson AGAIN. Notwithstanding the drug issue, the improvement has been noticeable.
He then went to Carlton from 2011-2012. Despite being a team blessed with TONS of high-pick talent, and Judd, they only got as far as the bottom half of the 8, and then Ratten got sacked. It's too early to tell what's happening with Carlton, but they haven't exactly plummeted because of losing Richo.
Finally, we get to 2013, which is the one "good" year "he's" had, with Port just sneaking into the 8.

So, at THREE clubs that he's been an assistant, the team has gone so badly that his senior coach has got sacked. No team he's been involved in has finished in the top-4. In nearly every case, the clubs have improved AFTER his departure - firing him was part of the solution.

I just see no evidence, at all, that he knows how to get a club to a premiership or the top-4. I saw plenty of evidence of Choco being able to do that.

There, I've said my peace.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

bit of insight into Richo

Thanks for that. Great to hear Richardson at length.

 

[Jake#20]

So have Pt Adelaide been Ross Lyoned?

Would have been happy with either, but geez it's great to see our club being as shifty as a shit pipe rat for once. Well done. Love the aggression.

Critics can say what they like, but this off season shows that the club is on a mission. Bring it on!

A good draft and a new CEO and we are well and truly on the way up again.

Well Richardson is not already a head coach and I have never heard of an assistant coach declining a head coaching role at another club. There is nothing spectacular about this appointment. Just horrible timing for the PAFC.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Has this been posted here yet? Just further confirmation

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-13/richardson-set-for-saints

 

[VDS66]

Well Richardson is not already a head coach and I have never heard of an assistant coach declining a head coaching role at another club. There is nothing spectacular about this appointment. Just horrible timing for the PAFC.

and your point is? If it is nothing spectacular, then why the need to come on here? I was discussing it from our point of view and how our club went about it. I didn't say it was coup or anything. Just happy with the way we went about it. As far as the Lyon comment goes, I was referring to the fact that he promised he would stay right up the 11th hour like Richo did.

Maybe you can give the job to Watters?

 

[L_W_P]

Any thoughts that maybe those clubs all improved after 2-3 years BECAUSE of Richo?

He develops the youth under an average coach, is moved on when the new guy takes over and the credit for the spike goes to the wrong person.

Even at Collingwood. He set up the likes of Cloke, Reid, Thomas and Pendlebury. Also they finished 3rd in 2007 and were a kick off a Grand Final.

I have absolute faith that in 3-4 years we will be pushing hard for top 6 spot and it will be on the back of Alan Richardson's youth development.

Scott Watters was a coach who wanted to rebuild while staying in the eight. He wasn't cut out for gutting a list and starting again.

Look at where the players under 25 were when AR first gets to each club, then look at where they are in just 2 or 3 seasons.

We are in good hands people

 

[Noidenous]

Such a narrow minded view..

I dare say he's put more thought into that view than most have when regurgitating 'rave reviews', whether I agree with the sentiments entirely or not.

 

[Hayes4PM]

The question on my mind is can he play nice with the pelican?

 

[Jack Stevens]

The last coach we had called Alan (Allan Davis) played in our only premiership. The one before that happened to coach us to that premiership. Good name for a coach

EDIT: In fact, it gets better. Alan Killigrew coached us from '56-'58, bringing us our first night premiership and two Brownlows. Allan Hird was captain coach in '46 and '47, apparently his grandson likes a good peptide.

 

[Defacto]

Okay, I'll chuck this out, to start. He's not a premiership coach, other than in the Eastern Football League, and as an assistant has not been involved in one, either.

He coached Coburg in the VFL from 2000 to 2001 - no flag.
He was assistant coach at the Doggies in 2003-2005 - the Doggies were TERRIBLE, and Rohde got the sack. He left too, or was pushed out. Then Eade came in, and the Doggies went up.
He then went to Collingwood as a development manager from 2006-2007 - they made 8th and 6th. That's it. He leaves, they move into contention and a flag not long after.
He then went to the Bombers as an assistant from 2008 to 2010 - the Knights era. 2008, finished 12th with 8 wins. 2009 they were lucky to get to 8th. 2010 was so bad, they sacked Knights for the saviour Hird, and out went Richardson AGAIN. Notwithstanding the drug issue, the improvement has been noticeable.
He then went to Carlton from 2011-2012. Despite being a team blessed with TONS of high-pick talent, and Judd, they only got as far as the bottom half of the 8, and then Ratten got sacked. It's too early to tell what's happening with Carlton, but they haven't exactly plummeted because of losing Richo.
Finally, we get to 2013, which is the one "good" year "he's" had, with Port just sneaking into the 8.

So, at THREE clubs that he's been an assistant, the team has gone so badly that his senior coach has got sacked. No team he's been involved in has finished in the top-4. In nearly every case, the clubs have improved AFTER his departure - firing him was part of the solution.

I just see no evidence, at all, that he knows how to get a club to a premiership or the top-4. I saw plenty of evidence of Choco being able to do that.

There, I've said my peace.

if you look at his time like that as you wrote it in isolation, sure it doesnt read well.

but if you look at someone like port, his job was not just developing the younger players but also the coaches, including the senior coach as well as looking at how to improve the football dept. he did it and by all accounts has done it well

when you look at carlton you have to remember that prior to him coming on board the club was a mess. although they had quite alot of high end draft picks, they just couldnt get off the bottom of the ladder. i remember at the time it was a real problem and there was talk ratten was clearly out of his depth and needed urgent help from an experienced operator. the poaching of richardson was a success IMO and helped turn the club around

going back to essendon is stretching my memory for someone with memory issues

i wouldnt mind the pattern the pies and doggies had. sounds like he works well with the young talent

 

[edgie]

What I really love is that Port ran a 2 ruck, 2 forward, 1 UTL setup.

Lobbe + Redden/ Renouf
Shultz + Butcher/Stewart
Westhoff

We can run

Hickey + Longer/Pierce
Riewoldt + Lee/White/Maister
Stanley

Oohhhhhh yeeeaaah...

Not true... Butcher was in and out, dropped twice, for about 6 to 8 games maybe
Stewart one game

Of course this is due to the respective form of those 2, but we did have other options (Nick Salter, Lobbe/Redden/Renouf to play forward) presenting themselves and form in reserves

 

[Defacto]

Thanks for that. Great to hear Richardson at length.

i love how when he gets introdocued and says thanks for having me, our logo is in the background

ITS A SIGN!!!!!

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Thanks for that. Great to hear Richardson at length.

Check out the flag right behind him the first time the camera goes on him.

Fate!

So I quoted the wong post. Awks.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I dare say he's put more thought into that view than most have when regurgitating 'rave reviews', whether I agree with the sentiments entirely or not.

Thanks man, that is all I ask. I don't ask people to agree - and I don't expect them to. I merely ask to be able to present my case without vilification. Thank you, totally sincerely, for allowing me to do so.

 

[Defacto]

What a surprise... I put up evidence for my argument. I get vilified. Gee, didn't see that one coming.

Fine. He's awesome and let's debate whether he'll take us to a flag in 1015, or whether he can get us there a year earlier.

dont let that put ya off, keep presenting your argument. i think you raised some valid points of concern.

the priorities i wanted from a senior coach was:
1) wasnt going to upset the apple cart or piss of the good people we have on board in recruiting (i.e. trout, ameet and pelchen). that department is priority 1 and should be of the up-most importance, even at the expense of the senior coach.
2) is a good development coach and worked well with the younger players
3) works well with the board and superiors (i.e. wont be a maverick)
4) can help us put some structure in the football department and coach the coaches
5) has detailed lengthy experience

my uninformed view is that he hits all those points. i think choco would have failed on a couple

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Richo on AFL Insider last year.

 

[Defacto]

I dare say he's put more thought into that view than most have when regurgitating 'rave reviews', whether I agree with the sentiments entirely or not.

i agree

i hate people coming in and slagging off the club or personnel with out any thought or evidence behind it. especially the "trust me" ones

i have no problem with posts like Persevering Saint that details the reasons behind his argument, especially with examples

 

[Noidenous]

What a surprise... I put up evidence for my argument. I get vilified. Gee, didn't see that one coming.

Fine. He's awesome and let's debate whether he'll take us to a flag in 1015, or whether he can get us there a year earlier.

Only if we can get it to 1000 pages of memes, high-fives and general repetition.

 

[Persevering Saint]

if you look at his time like that as you wrote it in isolation, sure it doesnt read well.

but if you look at someone like port, his job was not just developing the younger players but also the coaches, including the senior coach as well as looking at how to improve the football dept. he did it and by all accounts has done it well

when you look at carlton you have to remember that prior to him coming on board the club was a mess. although they had quite alot of high end draft picks, they just couldnt get off the bottom of the ladder. i remember at the time it was a real problem and there was talk ratten was clearly out of his depth and needed urgent help from an experienced operator. the poaching of richardson was a success IMO and helped turn the club around

going back to essendon is stretching my memory for someone with memory issues

i wouldnt mind the pattern the pies and doggies had. sounds like he works well with the young talent

I think this will be the big debate around Richo until (please let it be "until"!) he gets the runs on the board and we improve: given the rapid improvement in the clubs he has departed from, was he part of the problem, or was he part of the solution? Did they improve because he left, or did they improve because of the groundwork he'd done beforehand? It's a great question. Right now, I'm pretty sceptical, as you can tell, but I can concede the other option is possible.

I just know that, personally, I'd prefer he was actually the person who had taken players into a Grand Final - and preferably won it. That would be a little more concrete evidence of his coaching abilities... or at least his assistant abilities.

 

[Plugger35]

I think this will be the big debate around Richo until (please let it be "until"!) he gets the runs on the board and we improve: given the rapid improvement in the clubs he has departed from, was he part of the problem, or was he part of the solution? Did they improve because he left, or did they improve because of the groundwork he'd done beforehand? It's a great question. Right now, I'm pretty sceptical, as you can tell, but I can concede the other option is possible.

I just know that, personally, I'd prefer he was actually the person who had taken players into a Grand Final - and preferably won it. That would be a little more concrete evidence of his coaching abilities... or at least his assistant abilities.

One of Watters selling points as a coach was he'd won premierships in the WAFL at Subiaco and as an assistant at Collingwood but that didn't work out too well for us. Premiership success is nice to have but isn't the be all and end all. Paul Roos coached a premiership at Sydney without any previous premiership success.

 

[Defacto]

I think this will be the big debate around Richo until (please let it be "until"!) he gets the runs on the board and we improve: given the rapid improvement in the clubs he has departed from, was he part of the problem, or was he part of the solution? Did they improve because he left, or did they improve because of the groundwork he'd done beforehand? It's a great question. Right now, I'm pretty sceptical, as you can tell, but I can concede the other option is possible.

I just know that, personally, I'd prefer he was actually the person who had taken players into a Grand Final - and preferably won it. That would be a little more concrete evidence of his coaching abilities... or at least his assistant abilities.

good point. how i feel about it is that were in a development phase, we need him to do that well. i'm not sold he will be the coach to take us through the next phase, but we'll just have to wait and see

 

[St Bongo]

FWIW, I've attended quite a few coaching conferences and courses and of all the coaches, whether senior, assistant, development or former AFL coaches, by far the most impressive presenter was Alan Richardson. I know that is not a huge indicator of how he will go as a senior coach but he was clear, intelligent and made a lot of sense compared to most other presenters who mostly regurgitated the same old cliches, jargon and mumbo-jumbo.
I just remember thinking at the time that this guy was going to be a really good senior coach for some AFL club in the future and I've been a bit perplexed that it's taken this long for him to get there. I am much happier that he got the job over Williams.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Okay, I'll chuck this out, to start. He's not a premiership coach, other than in the Eastern Football League, and as an assistant has not been involved in one, either.

He coached Coburg in the VFL from 2000 to 2001 - no flag.
He was assistant coach at the Doggies in 2003-2005 - the Doggies were TERRIBLE, and Rohde got the sack. He left too, or was pushed out. Then Eade came in, and the Doggies went up.
He then went to Collingwood as a development manager from 2006-2007 - they made 8th and 6th. That's it. He leaves, they move into contention and a flag not long after.
He then went to the Bombers as an assistant from 2008 to 2010 - the Knights era. 2008, finished 12th with 8 wins. 2009 they were lucky to get to 8th. 2010 was so bad, they sacked Knights for the saviour Hird, and out went Richardson AGAIN. Notwithstanding the drug issue, the improvement has been noticeable.
He then went to Carlton from 2011-2012. Despite being a team blessed with TONS of high-pick talent, and Judd, they only got as far as the bottom half of the 8, and then Ratten got sacked. It's too early to tell what's happening with Carlton, but they haven't exactly plummeted because of losing Richo.
Finally, we get to 2013, which is the one "good" year "he's" had, with Port just sneaking into the 8.

So, at THREE clubs that he's been an assistant, the team has gone so badly that his senior coach has got sacked. No team he's been involved in has finished in the top-4. In nearly every case, the clubs have improved AFTER his departure - firing him was part of the solution.

I just see no evidence, at all, that he knows how to get a club to a premiership or the top-4. I saw plenty of evidence of Choco being able to do that.

There, I've said my peace.

It is somewhat sobering when you look at the numbers and you have put them together well to back up your argument. I just get the feeling that with a guy who has predominantly been a coach focused on development looking at ladder positions for teams he has worked at may not be the best indicator of his capabilities for the top job with us.

He actually reminds me a little of Ross Lyon with his background. Similar type of playing careers in some respects (both had injuries rob them of bigger and better careers in one way or another). Then got into coaching and both known as meticulous operators, workaholic no nonsense type characters with much higher than average footy brains. Both having experienced being assistants in the bad times (Ross with Richmond and Carlton, Richardson with the Dogs, Essendon) and later some good times (Ross more so than Richardson with his time at Sydney). Both not known as the "glamour" candidates on the coaching market but eventually getting their chance due to them having enough runs on the board regarding their apprenticeship.

In my opinion, it is much harder for clubs to see through the glitzy Powerpoints and appoint the likes of Lyon and Richardson. But when you get those appointments right, the pay off is huge because they are usually great man mangers as they have done things the hard way in their careers and drag their club along with them towards success. I hope but also have a good feeling that Richardson will be cut from the Lyon clothe and will take this opportunity we are giving him and be successful with it. He will certainly leave no stone unturned in trying to win us a flag. But it is no given and it was interesting to read the numbers that you brought up.

 

[Sainter93]

Very happy with picking up Richardson, although I don't know a lot about him I have heard nothing but positive reviews.

I'm just wondering why he has been knocked back so many times to be a senior coach. Including St Kilda only 2 years ago.