The Way out? of this mess

[SaintsSeptember]

How old is he? Seems to have been around for ever. He's a handy player though.

Must be 25.

Hooper is a product of Port Melbourne’s alignment with NAB League Club Oakleigh Chargers, and first played with us in 2016.
He was one of the youngest Borough players to be part of the 2017 Grand Final success at just 19 years of age.

Ayres’ 250th Game as Coach Headlines Round 6 Milestones – Port Melbourne Football Club

www.portmelbournefc.com.au

 

[littlecreatures]

I think we as a club are stuck in the ‘death valley’ of despair of change management. It’s quite a common phenomenon across organisational change.

Listening to Bassat’s latest interview, it sounds like they were prepared this was going to come at some point given the breadth of work needed to achieve any real results.

I think it’s going to be a period of realignment at seasons end, on the softer side, with priorities across the footy department. Seemed like they gave it a crack during pre season with a more attacking brand, but for a variety of reasons it just hasn’t come together.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

How old is he? Seems to have been around for ever. He's a handy player though.

Just checked on website haha, recently turned 27. Last 2 to 3? seasons, he's played as a mid. after being a half backer.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Must be 25.

Hooper is a product of Port Melbourne’s alignment with NAB League Club Oakleigh Chargers, and first played with us in 2016.
He was one of the youngest Borough players to be part of the 2017 Grand Final success at just 19 years of age.

Ayres’ 250th Game as Coach Headlines Round 6 Milestones – Port Melbourne Football Club

www.portmelbournefc.com.au

Recently turned 27

 

[austinnn]

Which teams are in the premiership window and need a solid 3rd midfielder option? Trade Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

to one of them for their FRDP or young midfielder with high ceiling.

Keep Battle, make him captain. Licence to get mean. Put Windy in leadership group.

Blood Heath and Keeler this year for 2-4 games each.

Give Sandringham whatever it needs to become an elite development team, start scouting up and coming coaching assistants and trialling them in the Zebs. Headhunt modern assistants to replace Harvey. Get a decent forward line coach who has played the position.

Use all draft picks this year, trade Paton, Ross, Membrey and Clark for whatever they can get in this year's draft, draft as deep as possible. Delist Zac, Allison and Hotton to make space.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, ignore the noise. Keep fighting inequality in the AFL system, stick together.

 

[Saintbloke]

For the first time in years, I am losing interest in watching the Saints- I'm only interested in 2024, not the past, as I have gone through it all. Bassat and board got us here, and they need to sort it. Ok, we have some players with a question mark on their abilities, but I can tell you that some of those players can play a whole lot better than we are seeing this year, and it's not all their doing. A poor workman blames his tools, and I'm seeing that right now.

 

[Sully111]

For the first time in years, I am losing interest in watching the Saints- I'm only interested in 2024, not the past, as I have gone through it all. Bassat and board got us here, and they need to sort it. Ok, we have some players with a question mark on their abilities, but I can tell you that some of those players can play a whole lot better than we are seeing this year, and it's not all their doing. A poor workman blames his tools, and I'm seeing that right now.

There's a simple question to be asked.

Are the coaches getting the best out of this list? Are they seeing the players playing to their potential?

People can blame the list all they like, but until the above is happening, there's no way to really know where we're at.

That's the starting point. We build from there.

Sure we need to chase some better players, but it's so easy to just blame the list, and as you said, we all know some of those players can play better.

I'm pretty sick of reading the excuses given to our coaching group to be honest, yet we'll shit all over a player in a heartbeat if they have a bad day.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Recently turned 27

I used to be good at mathematics until i started drinking so much.

 

[beside the seaside]

Having dusted myself off after another loss Ive been thinking it's hard to know how much of a mess we're really in. Teams go up and down, look at Fremantle as a good example. Last year their fans were ready to riot.

I don't think we'll know where we are at until next year. The main area of concern looks like midfield. Fingers crossed we're about to see Pou emerge. I'd get Owens running over pre-season so he can play games in there. I don't think his time as a forward has been bad for his development, he can be a gun forward mid type, but we need him more as a mid. But he's going to need to work on his tank.

 

[gringo2011]

Having dusted myself off after another loss Ive been thinking it's hard to know how much of a mess we're really in. Teams go up and down, look at Fremantle as a good example. Last year their fans were ready to riot.

I don't think we'll know where we are at until next year. The main area of concern looks like midfield. Fingers crossed we're about to see Pou emerge. I'd get Owens running over pre-season so he can play games in there. I don't think his time as a forward has been bad for his development, he can be a gun forward mid type, but we need him more as a mid. But he's going to need to work on his tank.

And Essendon. I think we can jump back up with a good injury run and if we hold the list together but need a lot of work to move forward. We are up against the clock though. Have to try to get a Dogs style flag in the next few years. Once those older guys are out we are going back a fair way.

 

[saintbill]

All we can do is try and keep drafting a few more talented kids and put the work into them.

We just can't afford for the likes of Pou, Wilson, Owens Winhager to go backwards.

Think we need to persist and be patient with both Sharman and Hammer. Keep playing them.

Hopefully we get lucky with some money ball picks. Garcia and Shoey look promising.

I would keep Battle if we can, no point going full rebuild, although I think we get a top 3 pick next year as well. Need to try and find another Crouch type. We will never attract a player that is in high demand.

Don't double down on our mistakes. Talks of King being extended on big money is deplorable list management. Forgot talent, massive Tom Boyd vibes. Genuine questions whether he develops into anything more than serviceable.

As for coaching, I reckon we are pretty cooked. We are committed to RTB but the game plan is disgusting, we are unwatchable, and its obvious the players hate it. The harsh reality is we are the laughing stock of the AFL at the moment.

We have to give him 1 more year to save face, but 12 more months of this garbage and it will be unfathomable for him to stay.

Bring in a younger coach, with a more modern game plan. Let's at least bring people to the footy.

 

[The Punter]

Don't double down on our mistakes. Talks of King being extended on big money is deplorable list management. Forgot talent, massive Tom Boyd vibes. Genuine questions whether he develops into anything more than serviceable.

So we get a flag, right?

 

[saintbill]

So we get a flag, right?

If we get to a GF I will load up on a much maligned Max King to play the game of his life.

Unfortuantley, that seems pretty slim, and just like Boyd for the Dogs was not the reason they got there, King looks unlikely to be a major reason behind any future success we may have.

 

[DGontheQT]

There’s plenty of time to load up on early picks before Tassie come and either way I don’t think we have a choice. We need our Brayshaw/Serong/Young, Petracca/Oliver/Viney etc. and history shows you can’t buy them. The real worry is our best and most important player by far is Sinclair and he turns 30 next year. If we’re bad now wait until he starts dropping off.

We need as many picks as possible both for kids and the odd trade. Living in denial with any other option IMO.

Amen brother

 

[Ricmel]

And Essendon. I think we can jump back up with a good injury run and if we hold the list together but need a lot of work to move forward. We are up against the clock though. Have to try to get a Dogs style flag in the next few years. Once those older guys are out we are going back a fair way.

I wouldn’t worry at all. In 6 months it will be pre-season again and we will be training the house down and on the cusp of a flag. All those players we have bagged for the last 10 years will be set for break out years and likely we are heading into a dynasty.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Talks of King being extended on big money is deplorable list management. Forgot talent, massive Tom Boyd vibes. Genuine questions whether he develops into anything more than serviceable.

As for coaching, I reckon we are pretty cooked.

We have to give him 1 more year to save face,
Bring in a younger coach, with a more modern game plan.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Talks of King being extended on big money is deplorable list management. Forgot talent, massive Tom Boyd vibes. Genuine questions whether he develops into anything more than serviceable.

Boyd - 60 games 50 goals

King - 80 games 160 goals

You may need to calibrate your vibe-o-meter Billyboy

 

[austinnn]

Battle can probably see the fun, rascal environment over at the Hawks. Our captain and best first year player are both serious introverts. We need some serious laughter around the place whilst still maintaining high standards

That's why you make him captain instead.


I'm seriously sick of the introvert culture at our club. Ross Membrey Steele Sinclair Clark it's infected players like Marshall and Battle, too. Need some larrakins and lairs in the place, A few galahs wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Ari is not ready to play the battle role
Would have to look at Tomlinson or Nick Hayes for a year

Agree that he needs time but I want him in the 1s the same as Wilson this year. He looks mature physically and very capable. He’s not overawed on the big stage.

 

[Saint Watto]

I wouldn’t worry at all. In 6 months it will be pre-season again and we will be training the house down and on the cusp of a flag. All those players we have bagged for the last 10 years will be set for break out years and likely we are heading into a dynasty.

You nailed it Ricmel.

We'll all be back again sizing up all our stars/potential stars........this completely irrational behavior is in our DNA.

You've gotta love the saying....."training the house down"

It has to be my all time fav footy saying.

Besides..."chewie on your boot"

Heard that one a few times last Sunday...lol.

 

[Zzzed]

We had almost a full list to choose from on the weekend.
17 Saints listed players played for Sandringham and we couldn’t get it done against an undermanned Geelong VFL team. Speaks volumes about the quality of our list.

Our list is rubbish.

Heath, Hotton, Keeler, Collard, Van Es, Allison, McLennan won’t make it.

Jury is out on Hastie, Caminiti, Hall, OConnell,

The only genuine A-graders are Sinclair, NWM, Wilkie. Marshall close behind.
Windy, Owens and King were all our big hopes - but none of them look like they can elevate to A-grade. Wilson and maybe Ari might get there - but lets wait to see if they improve over the next 2 seasons or go backward like Pou and Owens.

Jones, Membrey Cordy, Paton, Ross , Crouch, Campbell , Hayes no longer have what it takes to compete at the top level.

That’s 15 players I’ve mentioned who are not up to it.
And I haven’t included players like Byrnes and Sharman who I see as injury coverage at best and not in the best 22

All other players are either GOP’s or necessary depth.

To find 15 decent players we have to churn through at least 30 and probably more like 45 players.
That’s a 5 year project - and doesn’t account for those that will retire or be traded out in that time.

Depressing stuff.

 

[JG22]

I've accepted this is the year we needed to have. We need to the top 5 talent.

If we got a 2nd top 5 pick for Battle you take it, if its in the lesser brackets then its not a win.

Keep exposing guys, trust the process, the brass are doing what they can.

I like the exposure of Caminiti and Arie on the weekend. Clearly Hastie, Lance, etc dont deserve that.

Pou will return this week.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Its getting guns in the middle.

Look at the 04-10 sides, had gun mids, look at the 90s side, had gun mids, look at our 60s side and had gun mids.

Draft some beasts in the middle and it becomes a lot easier to score. If Battle leaves and we get a good draft pick then we need to do what North did and get ourselves a Sheezel and Wardlaw.

 

[saintbill]

Boyd - 60 games 50 goals

King - 80 games 160 goals

You may need to calibrate your vibe-o-meter Billyboy

Is King better than Boyd? Yes, but the point being made is that King looks depressed AF and looks like the weight of the world is on his shoulders.

Would be madness to throw a long term contract at him based on "talent". His work rate is not there, he is not showing any signs he wants to be elite. Would not be shocked if his mental health is in the toilet, but yeah he has kicked more goals than Boyd so point is not valid

If u do want to look at stats, Boyd spent time in the ruck for starters. King has spent every game of his career close to home and offers nothing outside of goals. Heard today he is the 3rd worst in the league this year for allowing his opponent to mark the ball.

An utterly putrid stat, and one that signals a lack of fight. If he is not going to mark it or get the footy, he folds like a deck chair. He looks mentally cooked out there.

 

[Verdun66]

This ‘mess’ didn’t start this year. It didn’t start with Ross Lyon and his crew arriving. It has been steadily growing for over 10 years. Bad draft picks, unlucky draft picks, pointless trades and so on and so forth. Lack of money and resource.

Finally we have some truth being shone on our plight. It won’t be fixed overnight. As sad and unappealing as that is. We seem to have been on a long road, but I think the road will still be long.

We have tried quick fixes. Some have worked some haven’t. Quite a few fellow posters have thought the list very thin for quite a while. I’m not shocked at where we are. Disappointed? Sure. It can be turned around, but not overnight.