Autopsy The collective angst - post 2017 trade eon version

[Malifice]

Anyways; i'll leave you all to it.

Just thought you might want to hear from the perspective of a club that's been rebuilding for a few years now.

 

[koshari]

Anyways; i'll leave you all to it.

Just thought you might want to hear from the perspective of a club that's been rebuilding for a few years now.

10 years...

 

[Mixed Results]

Thats why we're playing the kids; to get games in them for when the older heads retire. We've got around 2 years left before Murphy, Simpson, Kruezer, Thomas, Casboult are gone and its up to the kids to step up, with Cripps and Docherty leading the charge.

The bulk of our list will be 18-25 by then. We want Curnow, Wietering, SPS etc will be 20-21 and hopefullywill all have at least around 50 games under their belts.

Thats our line. If you're over 24 next year, you're only on the list to support the kids.

The next step is adding to that youth with free agents.

I agree we do need to smash the next 2 drafts. Having an extra 1st (this year) and 2nd (next year), gives us a bit of leeway to do just this.

Which is again, what I think you guys should be doing.

I'd argue that the premise behind Carlton's list-management strategy is based on unachievably good recruiting.

We've seen countless teams try to move up the ladder by focusing on teenagers, but just about all of them realized that they lacked the experience to properly develop them.

None of those sides were in as poor of a position as Carlton project to be when it came to experienced players. Even Melbourne at their absolute lowest had guys like Frawley, Jones, Silvia, Jamar, Davey, Pederson, Dunn and Garland. That experienced group won a total of two games, yet Carlton think that Docherty, Cripps, Plowman, Jones and a bunch of kids are going to be a competitive side? What's the plan if Cripps is lured back to WA?

The clock is ticking for Carlton. If enough of these players don't prove themselves of being able to carry a side within three or four years, then we could be looking at another Melbourne-esque situation and all of these high draft picks that you're trading for could have their careers ruined by a poor supporting cast.

Finally, that is what we're doing. If you haven't noticed, we now have six players on our list that are 27 or older. Of that group, I'm expecting half to retire at the end of next year. That will leave us with Higgins, Tarrant and Goldstein. Higgins and Tarrant are both in the leadership group and are essential to providing support through the next couple of years. Goldstein is the one that you could argue should have been traded, but I don't think that the pick in the 30s that he would've brought in would make much of a difference.

 

[Yoko and me]

We've been doing this rebuild caper for 2 1/2 trade/draft periods now.

We haven't just traded Gibbs for picks, but also traded out Henderson, Tuohy, Yarran, Menzel and Bell over that period.

In return we've gotten back 4 extra 1st round picks, and 3 extra seconds (factoring in Tuohy was a pick downgrade to the 1st round costing a 2nd, and the Gibbs trade featured a similar downgrade of a 2nd to a 1st, that was ontraded for 3 x 2nds, in addition to pick 10).

Those deals were done with Geelong, Adelaide, Richmond and Brisbane (plus a pick swap with the Dog this year).

In addition we've gone to the GWS well heavily, and picked up Marchbank (pick 6), Plowman (pick 3), Pickett (pick 4) and Kennedy (pick 13). We've landed all those players for cheap, mainly by taking on 'salary dumps' of players unwanted by the Giants for late nothing picks (and taking on their salaries).

We're hitting the draft this year with picks 3, 10 and 30 after starting with picks 3, [no second rounder] 40, 58. We got an extra 1st rounder, and upgraded a third to a second. We also managed to bring in Kennedy and Lang, plus an extra 2nd rounder next year.

The reason I mention this all is because we are a club that traditionally has never embraced the draft, or engaged on a proper rebuild. We're finally starting to get our ducks in a row. We've managed to clean the decks, and bring in a swathe of young talent in just 2 and a half trade/ draft periods, while remaining competitive, even if we lack the ability to close out games or score heavily.

From an outsider, I reckon you guys should have followed suite. Made some hard calls on 26 and older players who are top ten BnF types [but retained a solid core to play the kids around without getting flogged], and targeted fringe gun players rotting away in the NEAFL, or squeezed out of teams contending (who all come cheap), instead of targeting your Kelly [would have eaten up your 1st this year and next] and Martin types.

We have been better than you for the last fifteen years. Perhaps you should look at what we do

 

[Yoko and me]

Anyways; i'll leave you all to it.

Just thought you might want to hear from the perspective of a club that's been rebuilding for a few years now.

You underestimate us by comparing us to you lot. I know some people in the know at your club. We do not have your piss contests that arose from people more interested in making money and occasionally commenting. You support whom you support and that is all good and I have good friends who support who you support. But to compare our club to yours?! Old boy knowledge has been dying for years. Do you not forget the perks SOS had? I tried to internet them but they must have been pre internet. Had good friends f****d over by John Elliot RE elders IXL. Your club is petulantly hamstrung.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Anyways; i'll leave you all to it.

Just thought you might want to hear from the perspective of a club that's been rebuilding for a few years now.

I guess that's the thing, though. When you've been "rebuilding" for a long time you have a better hand for trading - Carlton generally used its high picks wisely, and generally turned those players into valuable trading commodities.

Having said that, I would prefer that North spend at little time as possible down the bottom and its decent picks turned into players that could contribute to success, rather than opportunities to be lauded as smart trades in 10 years when we are still bottom four.

 

[naturally north]

Anyways; i'll leave you all to it.

Just thought you might want to hear from the perspective of a club that's been rebuilding for a few years now.

Thanks and as they say, in for a penny in for a pound, half arsed measures bring half arsed results. Good luck and yeah you've definitely got some talent coming through.

 

[LB2Snake]

Anyways; i'll leave you all to it.

Just thought you might want to hear from the perspective of a club that's been rebuilding for a few years now.

Interesting read for me mate. Cheers for stopping by.

 

[Mr Despondent]

Anyways; i'll leave you all to it.

Just thought you might want to hear from the perspective of a club that's been rebuilding for a few years now.

I really really like that Gorringe dude. If you blues never want him I hope we can trade with you for him.

Do you think we are a chance?

 

[Firestarter]

I hope that's a joke.

 

[Groin guru]

Anyways; i'll leave you all to it.

Just thought you might want to hear from the perspective of a club that's been rebuilding for a few years now.

Cheers for stopping by and giving your POV. Let's hope all these picks don't (do - from my perspective) lead to the draft woes that you had between 2008-12. 18 players taken in 5 years and only 2 remain (buckley and rowe).

You did get some cut price GWS players but that was largely due to their inability to stay fit (puckett and marchbank). Luckily for you they appear to have put their initial concerns behind them.

I'll never understand the fascination outsiders have with the collection of high drafts carlton has - like it's going to equate to guaranteed success. If past history (carlton and melbourne) has shown us anything it's that things don't always go as well as planned. The media get all excited because player x from carlton was pick a high pick, but north recruit y was a low pick so he isn't going to be as good. This often leads to your players getting token rising star nominations whereas players like ryan clarke average 27 possessions in his final 5 games and barely gets a mention.

Carlton has cleared the decks but I'd argue you could have gone a little further. North got rid of experience and could have gone a little further (could have outed goldstein but it is what it is). I'd still take North's list of yours and you'd say the same about yours. The outsiders looking in would take carlton's but I'd wager none of them even know who EVW, nielson, clarke, mountford, hibberd, durdin, or williams are. Both teams have an interesting future and it's going to be one hell of a ride. I look forward to seeing where we go from here.

Thanks again.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

The 'GWS has the greatest list ever so their fringe players must be magnificent' myth has been fantastic for them.

They've been able to let go average players at premium prices and have another crack at selecting someone who is worth it.

 

[Heaps of fun]

I guess that's the thing, though. When you've been "rebuilding" for a long time you have a better hand for trading - Carlton generally used its high picks wisely, and generally turned those players into valuable trading commodities.

Having said that, I would prefer that North spend at little time as possible down the bottom and its decent picks turned into players that could contribute to success, rather than opportunities to be lauded as smart trades in 10 years when we are still bottom four.

Classic H2H rope-a-dope. Champagne posting.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Yep, and the much-vaunted "GWS well" also produced Gorringe, Jaksch, Sumner and Palmer.

Gorringe was actually a Gold Coast player previously, Jaksch was before our rebuild/SOS, Sumner and Palmer salary dumps as Mal mentioned.

Traded out or they wanted to leave?

We forced all of them out, except for Bell who wanted to go home due to his father being ill. Turned his pick and another 2nd into Charlie Curnow.

 

[Malifice]

Cheers for stopping by and giving your POV. Let's hope all these picks don't (do - from my perspective) lead to the draft woes that you had between 2008-12. 18 players taken in 5 years and only 2 remain (buckley and rowe).

1 left. Buckley delisted. Around a week ago.

Deserves another chance as a free agent as far as I'm concerned.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Gorringe was actually a Gold Coast player previously, Jaksch was before our rebuild/SOS, Sumner and Palmer salary dumps as Mal mentioned.

Yeah, I stand corrected.

I will add that SOS was the one who made the original poor calls on drafting Jaksch and Sumner in his GWS days, along with Whiley, who you also drafted from them and have since dumped.

The sub-text here is that the strike-rate from the GWS well is far less impressive than what was implied.

 

[Horace]

Gorringe was actually a Gold Coast player previously, Jaksch was before our rebuild/SOS, Sumner and Palmer salary dumps as Mal mentioned.


We forced all of them out, except for Bell who wanted to go home due to his father being ill. Turned his pick and another 2nd into Charlie Curnow.

I don't believe it. A poster called PrinceCharles??? I suppose it makes sense he would follow the BLUWS though.

 

[Arden]

I don't believe it. A poster called PrinceCharles??? I suppose it makes sense he would follow the BLUWS though.

And they didn't force out Henderson or Gibbs. When they got word that Henderson wanted out, they refused to play him for the last month.

Gibbs has been trying to get home for ages, hardly "forcing" him out to improve the club.

Yarran wanted out also, which Carlton were happy to accomodate, knowing his issues but conveniently not disclosing them to Richmond.

 

[Sheezel2Wardlaw]

1 left. Buckley delisted. Around a week ago.

Deserves another chance as a free agent as far as I'm concerned.

If he cant get a game at Carlton, well....

 

[PrinceCharles]

And they didn't force out Henderson or Gibbs. When they got word that Henderson wanted out, they refused to play him for the last month.

Gibbs has been trying to get home for ages, hardly "forcing" him out to improve the club.

Yarran wanted out also, which Carlton were happy to accomodate, knowing his issues but conveniently not disclosing them to Richmond.

I wasn't including Gibbs, just the second set of players mentioned. Believe what you'd like about Henderson, SOS has a way of setting up the asset he wants to trade a long way out. Hendo was actually pretty upset from early in the season that he was being shopped, which led to what happened. Anyway, not the Carlton board, apologies for the intrusion.

 

[Engimal v3]

Anyways; i'll leave you all to it.

Just thought you might want to hear from the perspective of a club that's been rebuilding for a few years now.

What position do you hold at the club?

 

[King Corey]

Guys if opposition supporters come on to talk footy it's a little cringeful to jump straight in with the counterattacks.

Continue in this vein if you choose, free speech and all but just putting a view out there.

 

[giantroo]

Sydney Swans youngster Isaac Heeney has opened up about the contract extension he signed with the club at the backend of 2016.

Heeney rejected a large money offer that was reportedly tabled to him by North Melbourne in last year’s trade period, recommitting to the Swans for a further five years. The deal, which keeps him at the club until at least the end of 2022, was easy to sign once the 21-year-old assessed his options.

“I still had a year left on my contract and I sat down with my manager and a few clubs went hard at me,” Heeney told SEN Breakfast.

“It was something I’ve never been through before and I had no idea what to expect and what to look at. I went over exactly what I wanted and in the end, the Swans did everything they could and got me there. I won’t go into specifics, but they were amazing to me.

“Not to talk myself up, but the higher in demand you are, the better you feel, but you got to keep a level head and take it one step at a time.”

Sydney suffered an indifferent start to their 2017 campaign, starting the season 0-6, before making a historic charge to the finals. However, they were embarrassed by Geelong in the Semi-Final, and Heeney believes their slow start ended up catching up to them.

“It was a strange part of the year,” he said.

“We struggled and couldn’t really put a finger on things. It was a time of the year where we needed to get back to the raw basics. It took a lot longer than we had hoped, and in the end it probably cost us a little bit.”

Heeney averaged 20.6 disposals at 70 percent efficiency, 341.3 metres gained, 11.8 uncontested possessions, 5.9 score involvements and 4.8 tackles in 20 appearances this season.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Sydney Swans youngster Isaac Heeney has opened up about the contract extension he signed with the club at the backend of 2016.

Heeney rejected a large money offer that was reportedly tabled to him by North Melbourne in last year’s trade period, recommitting to the Swans for a further five years. The deal, which keeps him at the club until at least the end of 2022, was easy to sign once the 21-year-old assessed his options.

“I still had a year left on my contract and I sat down with my manager and a few clubs went hard at me,” Heeney told SEN Breakfast.

“It was something I’ve never been through before and I had no idea what to expect and what to look at. I went over exactly what I wanted and in the end, the Swans did everything they could and got me there. I won’t go into specifics, but they were amazing to me.

“Not to talk myself up, but the higher in demand you are, the better you feel, but you got to keep a level head and take it one step at a time.”

Sydney suffered an indifferent start to their 2017 campaign, starting the season 0-6, before making a historic charge to the finals. However, they were embarrassed by Geelong in the Semi-Final, and Heeney believes their slow start ended up catching up to them.

“It was a strange part of the year,” he said.

“We struggled and couldn’t really put a finger on things. It was a time of the year where we needed to get back to the raw basics. It took a lot longer than we had hoped, and in the end it probably cost us a little bit.”

Heeney averaged 20.6 disposals at 70 percent efficiency, 341.3 metres gained, 11.8 uncontested possessions, 5.9 score involvements and 4.8 tackles in 20 appearances this season.

SEN this morning said two clubs had "head spinning" offers on the table.

 

[King Corey]

Swans did everything they could and got me there. I won’t go into specifics, but they were amazing to me.

There's nothing 'amazing' about miscellaneous ambassador payments bringing the swans offer up to parity.