The Death Penalty for Chan

[LukeParkerno1]

Again, it doesn't address what I said. What is it to you how long they take to execute them, to the point where you think they should get it over and done with?

Your view is based on what exactly? I say 'probably' because I am not there, and have no way of assessing them aside from what the media have shown. I did see them on 'What happens in Bali' and on a couple of news stories and apparently they have been great influences on other prisoners and implemented programs to help them. They have no other way to show they have reformed, regardless of how cynical you want to be.

My view is that drug trafficking is not something you are compelled to do. You do it to make a quick buck for the most part. Murders, rapists, paedophiles however, in a lot of cases they have a compulsion and are more likely to reoffend.

Prisons cost money, overcrowding isn't a great idea. That doesn't mean rush the judicial system. Whatever that time frame be (5 years, etc) that is fine. Make sure the process if followed from the trial to the sentence, to the if need be execution.

My view is based on common sense. Lawyers know what judges, judicial officers want to see. They want 'model' prisoners and thus their lawyers will be drumming it through their heads to be good, etc. Now have they reformed, maybe, but I am far from convinced. Prisoners will do anything to TRY and get their sentence reduced, it makes sense. I am happy they have brought programs in, perhaps they should have done that in Australia rather than getting in a drug trafficing ring.

I am far from 'happy' that these two are going to be executed BUT they had the chance to not do the crime. To me that isn't hard.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

None of which gives any of us the right to wish they would hurry up and get on with it. These guys have families who will cherish any extra time they have.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

None of which gives any of us the right to wish they would hurry up and get on with it. These guys have families who will cherish any extra time they have.

They are hardly 'hurrying up' are they- it happened in 2005! That was 10 years ago. You are making it sound like they committed the crime last year. I have said over and over I feel for the families. These two being absolute fruit cakes has unfortunately left them in a no win situation. I feel for them. However that said, I don't support them not carrying out the punishment.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We're on a loop. You said it was probably a good thing they are in the next round of executions because we don't need this dragging on. You have since addressed everything but that statement. What I am saying is that whether it drags on or not, it shouldn't affect you either way. You did say you will be satisfied when it reaches its conclusion. So aside from believing do the crime, pay the penalty. Aside from deploring drugs and traffickers. Aside from your belief that they have had all of their legal rights fulfilled ... you personally have a desire to see them to be executed soon.

No need to explain how long they have been there, what their legal challenge rights were, what the laws of Indonesia are or any of that. Just confirm that you are looking forward to them being executed soon so you can go on with your life.

On a side note, it feels possible that they have already been executed since we started this loop.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

We're on a loop. You said it was probably a good thing they are in the next round of executions because we don't need this dragging on. You have since addressed everything but that statement. What I am saying is that whether it drags on or not, it shouldn't affect you either way. You did say you will be satisfied when it reaches its conclusion. So aside from believing do the crime, pay the penalty. Aside from deploring drugs and traffickers. Aside from your belief that they have had all of their legal rights fulfilled ... you personally have a desire to see them to be executed soon.

No need to explain how long they have been there, what their legal challenge rights were, what the laws of Indonesia are or any of that. Just confirm that you are looking forward to them being executed soon so you can go on with your life.

On a side note, it feels possible that they have already been executed since we started this loop.

I'm happy they are actually for once actually getting rid of some crowding in the prisons. Something had to give. You can't have 150 people on death row after exhausting all legal avenues They had a chance to prove they didn't do it (good luck lol). That is long gone. Traffickers are one of the worst of the worst, if you saw what drugs do to people you would agree. Yes they may have reformed, I don't agree to that point, however the end of the day the courts found them guilty. The law says death, how about they follow through.

I'm looking forward to not having 3-4 pages of every newspaper on 2 criminals.

 

[clogged]

I hope the bullets are aimed directly at them, that they enter through the front of the skull, and their heads are split apart such that their brains go everywhere, extinguishing whatever pathetic thoughts their unworthy minds had in an instant, and that they are unrecognisable from the previous criminal or the next. And if it isn't as gruesome as I hope, then may they be shot in the torso. That the bullets crush and obliterate their vital organs, that they bleed slowly, with kidneys, liver and intestines all failing one by one, that they don't die from haemorrhage but because the death and decay of their traumatised cells poison their blood stream such that they suffer in extreme agony, and go into shock like a cancer patient whose body has turned against them, etc etc etc. It is the only thing that will stop whatever it is they did.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm happy they are actually for once actually getting rid of some crowding in the prisons.

What do you care of overcrowding in Indonesian prisons?

I'm looking forward to not having 3-4 pages of every newspaper on 2 criminals.

Can you flick past those pages? That may be one of the more selfish things I have read on here.

I prefer not to think about it as much as possible, don't want to know when it is going to happen, don't want to dwell on how it is going to happen, hope that somehow real justice, not man made archaic justice is seen to be done.

You want to be able to read the paper without being annoyed by it. Geez, I knew you lacked a filter but ....

 

[LukeParkerno1]

What do you care of overcrowding in Indonesian prisons?

Can you flick past those pages? That may be one of the more selfish things I have read on here.

I prefer not to think about it as much as possible, don't want to know when it is going to happen, don't want to dwell on how it is going to happen, hope that somehow real justice, not man made archaic justice is seen to be done.

You want to be able to read the paper without being annoyed by it. Geez, I knew you lacked a filter but ....

It is a concern how many prisoners especially on death row Indonesia has. I'm happy the president is doing something about it.

I like to enjoy my paper as do a heck of a lot of people in Australia. Yes I can flick through it...thats is 2-3 pages that could be used on important issues rather than whether 2 criminals are being executed and the 'shame' it is....yeah sorry no it isn't. The shame is why they were stupid in the first place in doing such a thing!

 

[Power Raid]

These two lads are about to hang for being ****s. It's just the laws of the country I guess.

I never have understood the fear that some people and societies have of homosexuality. What is the issue?

 

[bkozican]

Lets just open the key to all traffickers....C'mon. These guys know the risks. If your get caught with drugs in that area of the world, There is a high chance (if convicted) you will face the death penalty. Thats it.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It is a concern how many prisoners especially on death row Indonesia has. I'm happy the president is doing something about it.

Whose concern? You're in Sydney yeah?

I like to enjoy my paper as do a heck of a lot of people in Australia. Yes I can flick through it...thats is 2-3 pages that could be used on important issues rather than whether 2 criminals are being executed and the 'shame' it is....yeah sorry no it isn't. The shame is why they were stupid in the first place in doing such a thing!

I like to read through forums without reading opinions wishing people they don't know could be executed quicker so they don't have to have their morning paper experience ruined. I do however have the option to not read it.

Weren't you the guy that in a thread full of shocked people discussing the Phil Hughes incident, decided the better approach was to blame Hughes for his poor technique?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Lets just open the key to all traffickers....C'mon. These guys know the risks. If your get caught with drugs in that area of the world, There is a high chance (if convicted) you will face the death penalty. Thats it.

The discussion really is about the death penalty, its effectiveness, its appropriateness, rehabilitation prospects and frankly whether we should be cheering it on like sport. Knowing these are the laws is a given.

I do see the prospect for people to be forced into this way of life in one way or another. Owing money to the king pins, extortion. It has happened. It's never the right people caught and executed, just the stupid mules.

Not really a relevant analogy but teenage girls in some countries know that if a married man rapes them, they are the ones likely to be stoned to death. Some laws are pretty barbaric.

 

[ANGEL DARK]

The discussion really is about the death penalty, its effectiveness, its appropriateness, rehabilitation prospects and frankly whether we should be cheering it on like sport. Knowing these are the laws is a given.

I do see the prospect for people to be forced into this way of life in one way or another. Owing money to the king pins, extortion. It has happened. It's never the right people caught and executed, just the stupid mules.

Not really a relevant analogy but teenage girls in some countries know that if a married man rapes them, they are the ones likely to be stoned to death. Some laws are pretty barbaric.

Ridiculous analogy so why even write it?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Ridiculous analogy so why even write it?

I said it wasn't relevant. The point was that some laws are barbaric. Saying that is their law and people know the risks to shut down a discussion is not the most helpful discussion point there is.

I'm not comparing the two situations and I think I made that pretty obvious.

 

[ANGEL DARK]

The law is barbaric but so what. Selling drugs on the street that can ultimately kill people is also barbaric so those drugs they found on these two idiots might have saved some lives

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The law is barbaric but so what. Selling drugs on the street that can ultimately kill people is also barbaric so those drugs they found on these two idiots might have saved some lives

I said that simply saying that is their law and people know the consequences is not the be all and end all of an argument. I raised an example of how that simplification is flawed. If you want to discuss drugs and what they do to people, that's a separate argument.

However in this case, they were importing drugs back into Australia and the AFP were on to it. They would have been detained entering the country. Any rehabilitation they did in an Australian prison might have meant something. Let's not forget they were only caught because Scott Rush's family sought help to stop him getting in trouble.

 

[ANGEL DARK]

.Sorry but what drugs do to people is relevant to this discussion because these idiots getting caught stopped a load of drugs getting out on the street which could've caused potential harm or death to people so think about that before you lay claims that execution of these people is barbaric. If these guys get let off and spend time clogging up our prisons being reformed then the next drug mule who wants to smuggle drugs in or out of Indonesia is likely to take a chance knowing that at worst he will go to prison. The death sentence will now make the next potential drug mule think twice about smuggling drugs in or out Indonesia and that can only be a good thing

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Whose concern? You're in Sydney yeah?

I like to read through forums without reading opinions wishing people they don't know could be executed quicker so they don't have to have their morning paper experience ruined. I do however have the option to not read it.

Weren't you the guy that in a thread full of shocked people discussing the Phil Hughes incident, decided the better approach was to blame Hughes for his poor technique?

Doesn't mean I don't want to see prisons overcrowded. It is never great, there needs to be less overcrowding in prisions, regardless of whether that prison be in Sydney or in Indonesia.

I'd be happy not to hear about this every day. I don't need to know 'insert X celebrity' on how 'unfair' it is and how 'reformed' they are. They are all saying the same thing. I get it the family is emotional, I do, but not sure we need to have every media outlet in the country running the story.

Lets not bring the Hughes thing into it, I did appologise for that, and at the time I didn't know the serious nature of what happened, in other words I just thought he was hit (like a lot of batsmen have been both before and after).

 

[thurmanmunson]

.Sorry but what drugs do to people is relevant to this discussion because these idiots getting caught stopped a load of drugs getting out on the street which could've caused potential harm or death to people so think about that before you lay claims that execution of these people is barbaric. If these guys get let off and spend time clogging up our prisons being reformed then the next drug mule who wants to smuggle drugs in or out of Indonesia is likely to take a chance knowing that at worst he will go to prison. The death sentence will now make the next potential drug mule think twice about smuggling drugs in or out Indonesia and that can only be a good thing

Interesting how some people still see drug trafficking as a 'victimless crime' in this day and age

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

The Chinese and Japanese don't read the bible.

Great point!!

Care to address the main thrust of the post

Thats fine, we are talking about Indonesia. I'll be satisfied when this reaches a conclusion.

Was responding to this morsel of wisdom

LukeParkerno1 said: ↑
You can question it, you don't have the right to say it is out and out 'wrong' though

 

[CountryRace]

I never have understood the fear that some people and societies have of homosexuality. What is the issue?

russia, for example.

did not have gay and feminist moments.

and is a christian country

 

[CountryRace]

The law is barbaric but so what. Selling drugs on the street that can ultimately kill people is also barbaric so those drugs they found on these two idiots might have saved some lives

my issue is what you say is fair enough. but if you take a step back, and see the gov. is selling drugs to poor people (granted, perhaps not the gov of indonesia. but the world police). then you rethink it - you are going to shoot a guy 12 times in the heart for selling joints or some coke. that is not cricket.

The law is fair enough. But within the greater content, its a load of shyte. In a similar war to how there are so many child-rooters running the show.

 

[Todman]

However in this case, they were importing drugs back into Australia and the AFP were on to it. They would have been detained entering the country. Any rehabilitation they did in an Australian prison might have meant something. Let's not forget they were only caught because Scott Rush's family sought help to stop him getting in trouble.

Remember a crime which the AFP knew about was occurring in Indonesia, they had the moral obligation to inform their Indonesian counterparts of the fact. There was a chance that crooks further up the food chain could be arrested. That chance wouldn't happen if the arrests were made in OZ.

AFP job is to stop crime and arrest offenders, it's not their job to judge and sentence people.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Interesting how some people still see drug trafficking as a 'victimless crime' in this day and age

It's a business transaction. Person A wants product Z. Person B sells product Z. Who's the victim?

 

[CountryRace]

It's a business transaction. Person A wants product Z. Person B sells product Z. Who's the victim?

supply


demand