The fight for top 4 & top 8

[cinderella man]

You just did make a bold prediction..

Jimmy not predicting the Swans will beat the Pies this year just reminding him that Every Dog has their day and i think on this years form we are closer to beating them than we have been for a fair while. Pies are the team to beat for the flag no doubt and i think they are a great side but just starting to get a bit sick of the smugness from a few of them when the same pack of Good Time Charlies were the ones calling for Buckleys head after rd 3. Anyway if the Swans do happen to turn the tables it will be Skirts up panties down ''Bitches" Ha Ha !!!

 

[Wharf]

Carlton will defeat North, 10 weeks ago i fell for the North hype. They will disappoint again.

 

[de_LICA_ish18]

Just looked at the ladder again. If Essendon wins every game for the rest of the year and Sydney and West Coast drop one, the bombers will finish on top. After much more thought I also realised that if this streak of victories continues to the end of the finals then the bombers will win the flag. Pretty simple game this AFL!!

Not so simple, you're missing the team above them all.

 

[magic_johnson!]

Why should it ? So the Swans dont get any advantage ? A home final is a home final. SCG is the Swans home. If you earn a home final you play on your home ground. Hawks home final at Etihad ? I dont think so !!!

So cats home finals at KP then??

 

[kaiserchief13]

Mark Nicoski is done for the year so now the Eagles only awaiting returns from long term injured players in Embley, Kennedy and LeCras.

 

[jod23]

... Well Collingwood would go better if they had Ball & co in as well.

Ball and who?

Im sure Collingwood had a couple of their best 22 out but we had 3 key forwards. Kennedy, LeCras and Nicoski were out leading three goal kickers last season. When they come back in we will be even more potent going forward. Embley too playing on a wing, half forward is dangerous and kicks goals. Were good now with huge scope to improve.

 

[jod23]

Mark Nicoski is done for the year so now the Eagles only awaiting returns from long term injured players in Embley, Kennedy and LeCras.

Where you hear that? A week ago I heard he was about 6 weeks away?

EDIT - yeah just read on AFL.com. That sucks. Oh and I dont think LeCras will make it back either. Kennedy and Embley will still be big IN's for us though.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Not so simple, you're missing the team above them all.

Well, Essendon is only a win behind Collingwood, so winning all our games would include beaten Collingwood.

As it stands, we are currently well clear on percentage so we would likely finish top.

 

[fishardansin]

Not so simple, you're missing the team above them all.

Essendon is on equal points as Sydney and West Coast. If they drop one game and we don't we go above them. Essendon is 4 points behind Collingwood (Blair's "goal" being the difference) but with superior percentage. If Essendon beat them in round 23, which is necessary to go unbeaten, then they go above them!

So I was right, as usual.

 

[hk89]

LoL at comparing Carlton of Rd 3, when they had all their guns up and going....M.Murphy, Waite, Carazzo, Kreuzer, Judd were all firing.

To Carlton of Rd 13, who have no Murphy or Waite, Kreuzer looking like he is shot and the coach is about to get the sack.

Obviously all those teams on the list have had form fluctuations over the season. Richmond had better form when they beat us compared to when you beat them. We played West Coast at their home ground against a much more full strength team than you faced at the MCG. If both teams played at the same level and that game was in W.A. with Kennedy in the team, you'd have been spanked.

Hawks are two games behind.

They couldn't beat Geelong, and couldn't win their interstate challenge against a top 4 rival.

You beat Bombers by a point, and WC at MCG by 3 points, so you could say you are a total of 6 points away from being on the same number of points as the Hawks. Sure you won those close ones, we didn't, but in the scheme of things that doesn't indicate you are the miles in front you seem to be suggesting. Two lucky/unlucky incidents either way, and you'd be hoping to work your way into the top 4 in the latter half of the season, just like the Hawks. Hardly a dominate gap.

Collingwood are getting off to strong starts and then easing off....have been 6-7 goals up early against sides like Freo, Melbourne and then done minimum possible to get the W.

LoL, heard a lot of that from pies fans over the last couple of years. When they don't destroy a side, it is because they were taking it easy. When they fade in the last quarter, the queue was in the rack. When other sides do the same, it is because they lacked fitness and ran out of legs.

Oh, and you didn't address your loss to us, just warming up right, while hawks were at their Apex for the season (just before we lost to WC and Cats)?

Both sides have improved since round 1, we'll know in a few weeks how close Hawks are to the Pies (except that I'm guessing a loss will be explained by the likes of you as part of Buck's big plan for building towards the finals, so is just a "dead rubber", and meaningless in the context of the season etc etc).

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Well, Essendon is only a win behind Collingwood, so winning all our games would include beaten Collingwood.

As it stands, we are currently well clear on percentage so we would likely finish top.

It will be interesting to see how Essendon copes in the remaining games. You've played 4 games out of 13 against top 8 teams so far. The run home has 5 out of 9 games against the top sides.
Even so - amazing luck to only play two of the other top 8 sides twice in a season, with one of those being North.

 

[manicmagpie]

Ball and who?

Im sure Collingwood had a couple of their best 22 out but we had 3 key forwards. Kennedy, LeCras and Nicoski were out leading three goal kickers last season. When they come back in we will be even more potent going forward. Embley too playing on a wing, half forward is dangerous and kicks goals. Were good now with huge scope to improve.

Notsureifserious.jpg

Take your pick from Pendlebury (remember that guy?), Ball, Tarrant, Didak, Krakouer, Johnson & McCaffer. Plus our first choice back ups for those missing players e.g. Keeffe and Sinclair.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

LoL at comparing Carlton of Rd 3, when they had all their guns up and going....M.Murphy, Waite, Carazzo, Kreuzer, Judd were all firing.

To Carlton of Rd 13, who have no Murphy or Waite, Kreuzer looking like he is shot and the coach is about to get the sack.



Hawks are two games behind.

They couldn't beat Geelong, and couldn't win their interstate challenge against a top 4 rival.

Collingwood are getting off to strong starts and then easing off....have been 6-7 goals up early against sides like Freo, Melbourne and then done minimum possible to get the W.

2011 proved their is absolutely no point in being at your best in June/July.

So Colls losses in the first month can be explained and excused but Hawthorn's cant? Despite being much tougher?

And Hawthorn BEAT collingwood...

 

[The Prosecutor]

It will be interesting to see how Essendon copes in the remaining games. You've played 4 games out of 13 against top 8 teams so far. The run home has 5 out of 9 games against the top sides.
Even so - amazing luck to only play two of the other top 8 sides twice in a season, with one of those being North.

I hate when that argument is used, purely because it completely changes each week.

I'll use Carlton as example, they were 3-0 and on top of the ladder when we defeated them and now we don't credit for it because currently they're crap.

 

[SirJimi05]

I hate when that argument is used, purely because it completely changes each week.

I'll use Carlton as example, they were 3-0 and on top of the ladder when we defeated them and now we don't credit for it because currently they're crap.

Exactly what I was going to say. Carlton were flag favorites at the time and every man and his dog was saying that they would trounce us. Now it means nothing.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Exactly what I was going to say. Carlton were flag favorites at the time and every man and his dog was saying that they would trounce us. Now it means nothing.

I'd say the ladder was a little more volatile at the start of the year. As each week passes the teams in the top 8 are more representative of the best teams in the 8.

 

[SirJimi05]

I'd say the ladder was a little more volatile at the start of the year. As each week passes the teams in the top 8 are more representative of the best teams in the 8.

So playing a team in red hot form or terribly out of form at that time should not be taken into consideration?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

So playing a team in red hot form or terribly out of form at that time should not be taken into consideration?

My god you're annoying.

Form comes and goes but it's so subjective. When Richmond played Hawthorn and thrashed us were they in good form or were we in bad? Does the way we played the week after have change your opinion of whether we were in poor form or not? Wins and losses aren't subjective and that's what ranks clubs on the ladder. So at the end of the season, if the top eight stays the same you will have played each finals team once apart from North and Collingwood. It's just fact and there's no need to get your knickers all twisted about it.

 

[SirJimi05]

My god you're annoying.

Form comes and goes but it's so subjective. When Richmond played Hawthorn and thrashed us were they in good form or were we in bad? Does the way we played the week after have change your opinion of whether we were in poor form or not? Wins and losses aren't subjective and that's what ranks clubs on the ladder. So at the end of the season, if the top eight stays the same you will have played each finals team once apart from North and Collingwood. It's just fact and there's no need to get your knickers all twisted about it.

Come on mate, now your just being silly. Carlton were just coming off a 60 point thumping of the pies. Before that they flogged the Bears by 100 odd, up there and smashed Richmond first round. They were in great form and everyone acknowledged it.

Should we not credit Hawthorn for also beating Collingwood early on? Or Adelaide?

 

[doppleganger]

Obviously all those teams on the list have had form fluctuations over the season. Richmond had better form when they beat us compared to when you beat them.

Carlton have had the biggest form fluctuation of all teams.....first 3 rounds they were first in most stats, since guys like Murphy, Waite, Carazzo, Kreuzer, Judd succumbed, or battled through injury, they are now about the 14th ranked side since rd 3.

Yet you use Hawthorn touching up a rabble Carlton of some evidence of their superiority....if Carlton come out and belt us this Friday then you have a point.....but the more likely scenario is the pies will have a comfortable win, just like your mob did.

Richmond were playing well at the start of the year, they went with Carlton and Collingwood basically all the way, just 15 min lapses in concentration cost them. They also pushed West Coast and Geelong for the full 4 quarters....all in the first 5 rounds. They were taking it up to all the good sides at the start of the year, but were falling short....against Hawthorn their better midfield simply ran over the top.

We played West Coast at their home ground against a much more full strength team than you faced at the MCG. If both teams played at the same level and that game was in W.A. with Kennedy in the team, you'd have been spanked.

Collingwood actually wins interstate, unlike Hawthorn.

But yeah, West Coast can add Kennedy....but I guess we cant add in Pendles, Tarrant, Ball, Johnson, Didak, Krak

You beat Bombers by a point, and WC at MCG by 3 points, so you could say you are a total of 6 points away from being on the same number of points as the Hawks. Sure you won those close ones, we didn't, but in the scheme of things that doesn't indicate you are the miles in front you seem to be suggesting. Two lucky/unlucky incidents either way, and you'd be hoping to work your way into the top 4 in the latter half of the season, just like the Hawks. Hardly a dominate gap.

Who said dominant.....2 game gap,

Good teams win the close games...they have a belief, confidence that they will win......Hawthorn dont have that, when challenged they fall to pieces.

LoL, heard a lot of that from pies fans over the last couple of years. When they don't destroy a side, it is because they were taking it easy. When they fade in the last quarter, the queue was in the rack. When other sides do the same, it is because they lacked fitness and ran out of legs.

Geelong did it all the way through 2011....they would play ordinary football but get the W....then finally in the last few rounds of the season they brought their A game.

Collingwood were destroying sides in 2011.....where did it get them??

Oh, and you didn't address your loss to us, just warming up right, while hawks were at their Apex for the season (just before we lost to WC and Cats)?

Yeah Collingwood lost in rd 1...what is their to address??

An inexperienced Collingwood team were over-run by a more experienced Hawks outfit after wasting chances early. Surprised the Pies got so close actually.

Both sides have improved since round 1, we'll know in a few weeks how close Hawks are to the Pies (except that I'm guessing a loss will be explained by the likes of you as part of Buck's big plan for building towards the finals, so is just a "dead rubber", and meaningless in the context of the season etc etc).

Will have plenty of meaning, will shape top 4 and potential home final.

The games in the second half of the year give indicators to how teams will perform come finals time...the result isn't always the most important factor though....but this year with the race for top 4 looking pretty tight a close loss may be more damning than in previous years.

 

[doppleganger]

So Colls losses in the first month can be explained and excused but Hawthorn's cant? Despite being much tougher?

And Hawthorn BEAT collingwood...

Where was I excusing them?

It seems Hawthorn fans actually think that Rd 13 Carlton are the same team who were up and about in the first 3 rounds??

They must have missed the fact that since Murphy, Waite, Carazzo succumbed to injuries...the blues have turned into a rabble going 3-7....with two wins coming against GWS and Melbourne. Ratten is now dead man walking and their is talk of board spills.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

It seems Hawthorn fans actually think that Rd 13 Carlton are the same team who were up and about in the first 3 rounds??

Where did I say that? Thats nothing to do with what I said. Im well aware that Carlton are a rabble.

 

[Roughies Boys]

It doesn't really matter if your better interstate than us, the Gf is played on the G. Anyway when we play u Pies soon if you's win it will be in the last quarter, Hawthorn is way harder and physical than what they were early in the year, something that Thomas doesn't like

 

[CROWS08]

Round 17 looks to be a season defining round. Collingwood v Hawthorn, West Coast v Adelaide and Essendon v Geelong. All very important matches.

agreed - shaping as a huge round.

 

[hk89]

Carlton have had the biggest form fluctuation of all teams.....first 3 rounds they were first in most stats, since guys like Murphy, Waite, Carazzo, Kreuzer, Judd succumbed, or battled through injury, they are now about the 14th ranked side since rd 3.

Yet you use Hawthorn touching up a rabble Carlton of some evidence of their superiority....if Carlton come out and belt us this Friday then you have a point.....but the more likely scenario is the pies will have a comfortable win, just like your mob did.

Please re-read my post, that is not at all what I said. I suggested that it was reasonable to say your belting from an in form Carlton cancelled out our belting from an in form Richmond. I don't think I said we were superior to Pies at all, but rather pointed out our superior performance in more games where we've played the same teams suggested we were not that far behind (I was replying to a post asking what Hawks had done to be rated), here is the quote "Based on those games, If you rate Pies, then it is hard to say Hawks are far behind.". So please don't make up a bunch of shit I didn't say (I've noted you do this in most threads you peddle your bullshit in).

Richmond were playing well at the start of the year, they went with Carlton and Collingwood basically all the way, just 15 min lapses in concentration cost them. They also pushed West Coast and Geelong for the full 4 quarters....all in the first 5 rounds. They were taking it up to all the good sides at the start of the year, but were falling short....against Hawthorn their better midfield simply ran over the top.

Richmond played very well against us. Carlton played very well against you. Isn't that what I said?

Collingwood actually wins interstate, unlike Hawthorn.

We've done ok at Aurora this year

You had a good away win against Adelaide (although beating them by half as much we did at the G), and thumped Brisbane in Brisbane.
We lost to West Coast by 5 in WA, and thumped Port at AAMI a good deal more comfortably than you did at the MCG. I'd be reserving opinion on our comparative travelling ability this year until you've played WC in WA.

But yeah, West Coast can add Kennedy....but I guess we cant add in Pendles, Tarrant, Ball, Johnson, Didak, Krak

That is right, you can't. Not this year. We played WC at their home ground with Kennedy in, you think you are comfortably ahead of Hawks because you beat them by 3 points at the G without Kennedy? You will be thumped by Eagles in WA if you play like you did at the G.

Good teams win the close games...they have a belief, confidence that they will win......Hawthorn dont have that, when challenged they fall to pieces.

That's a myth against anyone but Geelong. The recent non-Cats games used as evidence is the Eagles loss and the Pies PF loss. In the eagles loss, we actually came back and nearly won after it looked like eagles were going to run off at the end, that is not falling to pieces. In the PF we ran out of legs against a team who had the week off. We've won several close games over the last two years too.

Geelong did it all the way through 2011....they would play ordinary football but get the W....then finally in the last few rounds of the season they brought their A game.

They had a fitter list than the Pies when it counted, You've got good players who are not coming back, and some previously good players out of form with no signs of it returning in a hurry, good luck with your build towards the finals.

Collingwood were destroying sides in 2011.....where did it get them??

Another lost GF

Yeah Collingwood lost in rd 1...what is their to address??

An inexperienced Collingwood team were over-run by a more experienced Hawks outfit after wasting chances early. Surprised the Pies got so close actually.

So given you've posted disagreeing with a comment that Hawks are not that far behind Pies, what are the changes that will lead you to do so much better than last time (with more injuries, and some of the players injured that day having form issues when they have played)? Hawthorn lost 3 games out of 5 in the first 5 weeks, and have only lost one since. They were a tough 5 weeks, but it does seem we're now in a bit better form and more settled than we were when we played you.

I suspect it is likely the next pies vs hawks game will be similar to round 1, with a high scoring match. If that happens, Hawthorn are very capable of winning that game. If we do win, will you still be trying to argue that we are in fact not far behind the Pies? If we get thumped , I'll certainly concede we're further behind than I thought. Seems you're just using my post as an excuse to tell us all why the Pies are so damn good whether they win big, just win, just lose or get thumped (given my post simply suggested we were not far behind you based on performances against the same teams this year).