- Dec 8, 2004
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PerthCrow said:Add Vietnam , Sudan , Central America and iraq..each one an American clusterf...
What would you have done differently in all of those instances?
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PerthCrow said:Add Vietnam , Sudan , Central America and iraq..each one an American clusterf...
rick James said:What would you have done differently in all of those instances?
I don't think anyone would argue with that.section8 said:To summarise my position, terrorism caused by greater literal interpretation and adherence to the Koran is bad for business for EVERYONE.
History would suggest that resistance to occupation in that region could last hundreds of years (not that American resolve could last more than a decade). Why are you so confident?section8 said:Ourselves, China, Europe, eskimoes and the saner countries in the ME region (I won't include Israel, otherwise this is bound to descend into a Jews Rule the World argument) will be thankful for the stability the US shall create in the long term (try to think past the suicide bombings of last month before assessing US performance so far.)
You're say people of "my ilk" "usurped" power and thereby destroyed those two empires?section8 said:The US is not going to go the way of Rome, British Empire etc by having people of your ilk usurp power.
I understand the muslims in Southern Thailand are the population of an earlier muslim kingdom that was conquered by the Thai state.section8 said:By the way, Thailand is an extremely important country as far as South East Asia and Australia is concerned as they are battling the forces that were probably responsible for last night and the ones most likely to effect a similar attack on Australian soil. When it happens, perhaps you will then appreciate what "dhimmis" and "infidels" around the world are battling and how the time for sitting down around drinking coffee and asking our extremist friends, "Why do you hate us and how can we be better dhimmis?" has passed.
rick James said:What would you have done differently in all of those instances?
section8 said:Bali has got a few at the moment. Extra crispy skin.
This isn't a matter of absolutes. You on the pro-war side often seem to think you have a more sophisticated position, but it's often you who don't understand the complications of these policies. The US cannot covet Iraq, Vietnam, etc. all it likes, but the reality is that securing them as a possession was never going to be as easy as marching their green men across the country.section8 said:Communism and Islamic extremism rock my world. Or at least I wish they did. Maybe I should emigrate....hmmmm. Why can't they just let mother nature take it's course and let those who want to get their way at any cost walk over those who should be more responsible and should be advocating for everyone to sit down, therapy-session like, and nutting out a solution to everyone's ills?
/fantasy world off
Pick a side, fencesitters, even if it means you having to side with the lesser of two evils.
Stealing pens? Well bang goes that informants credibility! Now lying to send a country to war, thats okay. But stealing pens?! Hangings too good for him.PerthCrow said:Add to that the Soldier who busted the Pentagons 11/9 planning now being charged with ''stealing pens''
Bic or Schaeffer?
Pentagon revokes 9/11 officer's clearance
By Kimberly Hefling, Associated Press Writer | September 30, 2005
WASHINGTON --An officer who has claimed that a classified military unit identified four Sept. 11 hijackers before the 2001 attacks is facing Pentagon accusations of breaking numerous rules, charges his lawyer suggests are aimed at undermining his credibility.
The alleged infractions by Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, 42, include obtaining a service medal under false pretenses, improperly flashing military identification while drunk and stealing pens, according to military paperwork shown by his attorney to The Associated Press.
Shaffer was one of the first to publicly link Sept. 11 leader Mohamed Atta to the unit code-named Able Danger. Shaffer was one of five witnesses the Pentagon ordered not to appear Sept. 21 before the Senate Judiciary Committee to discuss the unit's findings.
The military revoked Shaffer's top security clearance this month, a day before he was supposed to testify to a congressional committee.
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moistie said:Stealing pens? Well bang goes that informants credibility! Now lying to send a country to war, thats okay. But stealing pens?! Hangings too good for him.
just maybe said:Not invaded Vietnam, maybe? Not backed militias and helped crush dissent in Latin America, maybe?
But the euphemism, "under control", refers to the removal of democratically elected governments and their replacement by murderous military dictatorships.rick James said:America needed latin America under control. They couldn't just let things take their natural course, because that puts America's superiority at risk. And America's superiority is America's number one priority.
MightyFighting said:But the euphemism, "under control", refers to the removal of democratically elected governments and their replacement by murderous military dictatorships.
Are you really saying that that's alright because they do good things in the world as well?
section8 said:And the UK was once warm enough for Roman settlers to grow grapes.
rick James said:Yes. They are best hyper/superpower the world has ever had, but first and foremost, like any country, their loyalty is to themselves and their way of life.
spanky ham said:That's some compelling evidence.
There are good scientific explanations for how increases in CO2 can cause a rise in average global temperatures, and if the current rise is due to CO2 levels, rather than random fluctuations, then it means that it is possible for the average global temperature to rise far beyond the bounds of normal fluctuations.section8 said:The UK once had a mediterranean climate, yes. Proven.
And your evidence for explaining temperatures "rising" is......?
They have been fluctuating across the planet for millenia.
just maybe said:So you advocate wholesale abuse of human rights and justice because of the line you gave above?
Wow, says a lot about you...
But your argument holds if and only if the coup in question is vital (or at least very important) to the continuation of American supremacy. However, the coup in Argentina seems to me to be the result of the corrupting effect of power, rather than a simple cold-hearted exercise in self-interest. Certainly, in the case of Iran (the coup which replaced a democratic coup with the Shah), we clearly saw an example of what I was talking about earlier in this thread, i.e. America was looking after its short term interest, instead of its long term position. They replaced a secular, democratic government with a secular dictatorship, and, 25 years later, the Iranians themselves replaced it with an Islamic dictatorship. Could it really be claimed that America has served its own interest?rick James said:Yes. They are best hyper/superpower the world has ever had, but first and foremost, like any country, their loyalty is to themselves and their way of life.
MightyFighting said:But your argument holds if and only if the coup in question is vital (or at least very important) to the continuation of American supremacy. However, the coup in Argentina seems to me to be the result of the corrupting effect of power, rather than a simple cold-hearted exercise in self-interest. Certainly, in the case of Iran (the coup which replaced a democratic coup with the Shah), we clearly saw an example of what I was talking about earlier in this thread, i.e. America was looking after its short term interest, instead of its long term position. They replaced a secular, democratic government with a secular dictatorship, and, 25 years later, the Iranians themselves replaced it with an Islamic dictatorship. Could it really be claimed that America has served its own interest?
Getting back to Argentina, they backed that coup only because no one significant would oppose them. Decades later they tried the same trick in Venezuela and found that most Latin American states opposed them. The result was that Venezuelan democracy was saved, but has American supremacy been dinted? Only slightly, surely.
The bottom line is that it is a good thing to oppose the bad actions of a superpower, regardless of whether it is a good superpower, or a bad superpower.
OK, we do disagree on which actions are good and which are bad (case in point: Iraq), but that's life.
just maybe said:Camsmith, come back to us when your criticisms aren't gormless hyperbole.
MightyFighting said:There are good scientific explanations for how increases in CO2 can cause a rise in average global temperatures, and if the current rise is due to CO2 levels, rather than random fluctuations, then it means that it is possible for the average global temperature to rise far beyond the bounds of normal fluctuations.
In other words, the Earth could be made inhospitable to human life. Do you really want to risk it?
But it's probably a matter of their overall philosophy, rather than each individual action.rick James said:Fair point, Iran backfired on them, but then I never calimed they were clarvoyant either.
I should have put that better. When I said, "we do disagree on which actions are good and which are bad", I meant people in general. (This language needs more pronouns.)rick James said:WE don't disagree on iraq, I was against the war, just not as feverently as some.
You're talking about shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.section8 said:Until there is solid scientific evidence that temperatures have risen on a consistent, widespread basis at a rate which significantly exceeds any past increments then yes, I'll "risk" it.
I won't be frightened into altering my ways by scientists with an agenda that can't cough up the evidence. They are no different from a religion pushing their vengeful god tripe.
Prove it or keep on walking.
PS I'm all for nuclear and hydrogen power, by the way. The less we need to deal with the ME the better.
rick James said:pardon me for being realistic.