Society/Culture The Gender Pay Gap

[Fadge]

You should. You get told it's rude to talk about it because your boss doesn't want you to know if you're getting underpaid. Classic stitch up.

Absolutely it's possible. And if you find out that's the case you should also ask for a raise or start looking for a better gig. No sense in letting someone take advantage of you.

If someone came to me after discussing salaries and asked for a pay rise because someone else was getting paid more than them, they'd both likely be looking for other jobs.

Earn your stripes and get paid based on your merits. If you have a case for a pay rise, you need a better argument than 'someone else is getting paid more', regardless of whether they are male or female.

How about reducing the higher paid employee's salary to make them 'equitable'?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

If someone came to me after discussing salaries and asked for a pay rise because someone else was getting paid more than them, they'd both likely be looking for other jobs.

Earn your stripes and get paid based on your merits. If you have a case for a pay rise, you need a better argument than 'someone else is getting paid more', regardless of whether they are male or female.

How about reducing the higher paid employee's salary to make them 'equitable'?

I hire people that leave people like you every month. Thanks for making it possible.

 

[Fadge]

I hire people that leave people like you every month. Thanks for making it possible.

Sure, and they'll leave you after another month once they seek out someone who is being paid a little more than them in an equivalent role.

Good luck with that.

 

[quotemokc]

If someone came to me after discussing salaries and asked for a pay rise because someone else was getting paid more than them, they'd both likely be looking for other jobs.

Earn your stripes and get paid based on your merits. If you have a case for a pay rise, you need a better argument than 'someone else is getting paid more', regardless of whether they are male or female.

How about reducing the higher paid employee's salary to make them 'equitable'?

Thats not the point.

Never ask for a raise whilst mentioning a co-workers salary.

But it is 100% worth knowing what others around you are getting so you can gauge yourself if you think you deserve more.

 

[Fadge]

Thats not the point.

Never ask for a raise whilst mentioning a co-workers salary.

But it is 100% worth knowing what others around you are getting so you can gauge yourself if you think you deserve more.

Yeah, maybe it's a millennial thing, but as a Gen X I have never felt the urge to discuss my salary with any of my peers, and if someone ever asked me what I was earning I'd tell them to pull their head in.

It's easy enough to gauge the market rates and use that as a reference when pushing for a leg up.

 

[quotemokc]

Yeah, maybe it's a millennial thing, but as a Gen X I have never felt the urge to discuss my salary with any of my peers, and if someone ever asked me what I was earning I'd tell them to pull their head in.

It's easy enough to gauge the market rates and use that as a reference when pushing for a leg up.

Suppose it depends how close you are with your co-workers

 

[Taylor]

A law should be passed that allows any HR person to sue an employer on behalf of staff being paid in an unequal fashion.

That will open the door to transparency and accountability. It might show absolutely nothing.

Or it might turn out like the APS study into how the crusty old white men aren't hiring enough diverse ethnicity and genders - showing that older white men were more likely to hire someone diverse and not male - so was quickly thrown under the rug.

 

[Fadge]

Suppose it depends how close you are with your co-workers

Not a consideration.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I particularly liked the advice in the article I posted whereby men should ask women in equivalent positions what they were being paid.

I don't know about anyone else, but in professional working environments we never discuss one another's salaries.

And what if I did ask a female equivalent and discovered she was getting paid more than me? Or is that not possible?

The company I work for has a strict policy of not discussing remuneration with colleagues. I'd imagine that would be the case for most companies.

 

[Gethelred]

Suppose it depends how close you are with your co-workers

All of Fadge's colleagues are Carlton supporters.

 

[Carringbush2010]

All of Fadge's colleagues are Carlton supporters.

It's why they get paid more.

 

[Gethelred]

It's why they get paid more.

It'd make sense if Fadge was a dentist, I suppose.

 

[Fadge]

The company I work for has a strict policy of not discussing remuneration with colleagues. I'd imagine that would be the case for most companies.

A lot of companies do have a written policy, but for most people it is unwritten and basically commonsense.

What good can possibly come from discussing salaries? Whether you're paid more, less or the same as someone as, it can only cause problems by disclosing your salary. You might be getting paid the same as an 'equivalent', but still feel as though you're more productive, or more experienced, and feel as though you should be getting paid more.

Assess the employment market externally and prove your worth internally. It's pretty simple.

 

[faible]

A lot of companies do have a written policy, but for most people it is unwritten and basically commonsense.

What good can possibly come from discussing salaries? Whether you're paid more, less or the same as someone as, it can only cause problems by disclosing your salary. You might be getting paid the same as an 'equivalent', but still feel as though you're more productive, or more experienced, and feel as though you should be getting paid more.

Assess the employment market externally and prove your worth internally. It's pretty simple.

There's certainly a personal bias where people think 'they' are the hard working one, and 'the others' aren't pulling their weight. So the idea that you should be paid more just because someone else is doesn't always wash.

The alternative is a system like the public sector where there's fixed wage brackets based on tenure, which also results in well, the public service being what it is.

 

[the_interloper]

Suppose it depends how close you are with your co-workers

I think that would have nothing to do with it. I don't discuss salaries with my very close mates or even my brothers. I mean sometimes they may tell me, it's up to them but I don't reciprocate.

And yeah I don't tell my co workers what I'm on, that's not going to end well.

Also this issue has been done to death, don't really know how to add any more to this debate. At least the media will always be able to flog the dead horse because unless we see 50/50 men and women studying technical degrees and doing trades and dangerous shit we're not going to see a big change.

 

[faible]

I think that would have nothing to do with it. I don't discuss salaries with my very close mates or even my brothers. I mean sometimes they may tell me, it's up to them but I don't reciprocate.

And yeah I don't tell my co workers what I'm on, that's not going to end well.

Also this issue has been done to death, don't really know how to add any more to this debate. At least the media will always be able to flog the dead horse because unless we see 50/50 men and women studying technical degrees and doing trades and dangerous s**t we're not going to see a big change.

Also biological realities of childbirth and breastfeeding to be equally shared.

 

[the_interloper]

Also biological realities of childbirth and breastfeeding to be equally shared.

Yep that too, I'm sure there are many other factors.

 

[Seeds]

The gender pay gap seems to be more about women choosing not to work in jobs that society actually needs then it does about women being not paid equal pay for equal work.

 

[Seeds]

That's not going to change though. It's a reality that we have to accept. Until women stop having babies that will always be a factor.



Childcare workers get paid less because people don't place a high monetary value on the work they do. They need to ensure their rate is low enough that it remains financially beneficial for parents, otherwise parents will just stay home and watch the kids themselves. Unskilled labour will always be paid low rates.

No thats not why childcare workers get paid little. Its because of supply and demand. All wages in the long run are set by supply and demand. Too many women want to be childcare workers rather then do other more dangerous, more skilled or unattractive jobs.

 

[Seeds]

A couple of years ago (I think it was in response to one of Pyne's silly comments) there were more female entrants into tertiary legal studies than male.
Not sure if that translates into people actually practicing law as I know three friends, all female, who have law degrees but don't practice.

I think the gap between male and female pay will close over time but there is evidence that in some industries there are gaps.

The gap wont narrow cos a greater proportion of women are less willing to work in unattractive jobs due to cultural and biological factors. This results in a supply demand imbalance that adjusts by wages falling in attractive jobs and wages rising in unattractive jobs. A much larger proportion of Women then men dont want to work on mine sites in the pilbura or as financial analysts on a screen all day studying numbers.

 

[the_interloper]

No thats not why childcare workers get paid little. Its because of supply and demand. All wages in the long run are set by supply and demand. Too many women want to be childcare workers rather then do other more dangerous, more skilled or unattractive jobs.

Childcare is always going to be poorly paid by default really. Even though the govt subsidises it it will have to be less than most wages, otherwise parents will just stay home and not bother working.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It'd make sense if Fadge was a dentist, I suppose.

Hang on, this isn't some sort of thinly veiled toothless Pies fan dig is it?

If so, well played!

 

[Carringbush2010]

A lot of companies do have a written policy, but for most people it is unwritten and basically commonsense.

What good can possibly come from discussing salaries? Whether you're paid more, less or the same as someone as, it can only cause problems by disclosing your salary. You might be getting paid the same as an 'equivalent', but still feel as though you're more productive, or more experienced, and feel as though you should be getting paid more.

Assess the employment market externally and prove your worth internally. It's pretty simple.

I agree there's merit in your argument. However there is that pesky curiosity at play here.

That's not to justify comparing your salary with colleagues though.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The gender pay gap seems to be more about women choosing not to work in jobs that society actually needs then it does about women being not paid equal pay for equal work.

In that case, ethically, women should be paid more. The gap should be the other way.

Pesky market reality gets in the way though.

Often wondered why there isn't higher wage demand for jobs like nursing when doctors make shed loads.

In fact more broadly emergency staff aren't the highest earners, when you'd think emergency work would attract higher wages. Go figure.

 

[Seeds]

Childcare is always going to be poorly paid by default really. Even though the govt subsidises it it will have to be less than most wages, otherwise parents will just stay home and not bother working.

No there are massive subsidies given to parents for childcare. Childcare workers wages are not kept down by government. Especially since many owners of child care centres are privwte companies. There is simply a large supply of women who are willing to work at low wages in child care centres. If that supply dried up the wages would rise.