Society/Culture The Gender Pay Gap

[Seeds]

See my follow up post:


People who think it's all good to discuss confidential information such as salaries generally come with other baggage.

If it was a one-off and they were otherwise a strong performer, I'd just say to them something like 'I'll pretend I didn't hear that, but let's not go down that path again'...

You know right now you are telling us you are commiting a workplace crime right.

this is disgraceful behaviour and there are laws to stop people like you.

 

[Fadge]

You know right now you are telling us you are commiting a workplace crime right.

this is disgraceful behaviour and there are laws to stop people like you.

No I'm not, because I've never had to do it.

 

[the_interloper]

See my follow up post:


People who think it's all good to discuss confidential information such as salaries generally come with other baggage.

If it was a one-off and they were otherwise a strong performer, I'd just say to them something like 'I'll pretend I didn't hear that, but let's not go down that path again'...

Is it confidential though?

 

[Seeds]

Is it confidential though?

Its not confidential for an employee to tell other employees what wages they are paying. he is spreading propoganda to benefit employers such as himself.

 

[the_interloper]

Its not confidential for an employee to tell other employees what wages they are paying. he is spreading propoganda to benefit employers such as himself.

Yeah I mean I don't recall reading this in my employment contract (or any contract I've had), it was actually a genuine question.

 

[Fadge]

Its not confidential for an employee to tell other employees what wages they are paying. he is spreading propoganda to benefit employers such as himself.

I never said it was illegal, but in addition to it simply being commonsense, you'll find it is regularly incorporated into company policy whereby a breach will result in disciplinary action.

Like the law, ignorance of company policy is no excuse.

Further, many employers include pay secrecy clauses in employment contracts.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

And what if he / she / they are not as productive as Scotland in a similar role, and the employer has paid Scotland more on the basis of being more productive?

Trying to simplify it down to 'everyone should be paid the same' is an incredibly simplistic argument, and arguing you should be paid more because they are paid more is a very poor argument to take to an employer to justify your position.

That's not the argument. If there's a fair and valid reason that the employer has for paying two employees at the same position with the same responsibilities different rates then that can be discussed when the wage difference is queried. Pressuring employees to not discuss remuneration is trying to prevent that discussion from taking place at all.

Sure, and they'll leave you after another month once they seek out someone who is being paid a little more than them in an equivalent role.

Good luck with that.

They're not leaving the role for the money shagger, they're leaving because they're tired of working at a place which treats them like crap by trying to enforce them to abide by silly rules that protect nobody and threatening them with termination if they don't comply. You'd be surprised how very few people leave a job for the reason of money alone.

Honestly, who do you think these rules work for? For the general workplace by saving the embarrassment of having to go around the room and discuss your salary in an open forum, something that would literally never happen? Is any direct harm caused by two people having a mutual discussion about what they earn? No, they exist purely to spare a manager having to have an awkward conversation with an employee about why they pay them less than co-workers in comparable roles and with comparable responsibilities. Anyone not willing and mentally prepared to have that conversation with their employees is just a gutless and overall shitty manager, plain and simple.

 

[Fadge]

That's not the argument. If there's a fair and valid reason that the employer has for paying two employees at the same position with the same responsibilities different rates then that can be discussed when the wage difference is queried. Pressuring employees to not discuss remuneration is trying to prevent that discussion from taking place at all.


They're not leaving the role for the money shagger, they're leaving because they're tired of working at a place which treats them like crap by trying to enforce them to abide by silly rules that protect nobody and threatening them with termination if they don't comply. You'd be surprised how very few people leave a job for the reason of money alone.

Honestly, who do you think these rules work for? For the general workplace by saving the embarrassment of having to go around the room and discuss your salary in an open forum, something that would literally never happen? Is any direct harm caused by two people having a mutual discussion about what they earn? No, they exist purely to spare a manager having to have an awkward conversation with an employee about why they pay them less than co-workers in comparable roles and with comparable responsibilities. Anyone not willing and mentally prepared to have that conversation with their employees is just a gutless and overall shitty manager, plain and simple.

What absolute rubbish.

I'm fully aware as to how few people leave a job simply because of the remuneration.

However, there are many reasons as to why two people in similar positions will be on different salaries. Performance, longevity, market dynamics at the time of hire, slightly different responsibilities.

I guarantee you, you won't get very far with any decent manager if your rationale for a pay rise is solely based on what Cheryl in the next cubicle is being paid.

Oh, and for anyone reading this thread and heeding the advice of some of the posters here, I implore you to check out your company's policy and your employment contract first.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

What absolute rubbish.

I'm fully aware as to how few people leave a job simply because of the remuneration.

However, there are many reasons as to why two people in similar positions will be on different salaries. Performance, longevity, market dynamics at the time of hire, slightly different responsibilities.

I guarantee you, you won't get very far with any decent manager if your rationale for a pay rise is solely based on what Cheryl in the next cubicle is being paid.

Oh, and for anyone reading this thread and heeding the advice of some of the posters here, I implore you to check out your company's policy and your employment contract first.

You really can't read can you?

 

[Fadge]

You really can't read can you?

Huh, because I disagree with you?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Huh, because I disagree with you?

No, because you don't read shit

First paragraph of the post you replied to:

That's not the argument. If there's a fair and valid reason that the employer has for paying two employees at the same position with the same responsibilities different rates then that can be discussed when the wage difference is queried. Pressuring employees to not discuss remuneration is trying to prevent that discussion from taking place at all.

And still you write:

However, there are many reasons as to why two people in similar positions will be on different salaries. Performance, longevity, market dynamics at the time of hire, slightly different responsibilities.

I guarantee you, you won't get very far with any decent manager if your rationale for a pay rise is solely based on what Cheryl in the next cubicle is being paid.

It's like talking to a ****ing brick wall that's been taught how to use the dislike button.

 

[Fadge]

No, because you don't read s**t

First paragraph of the post you replied to:


And still you write:


It's like talking to a ******* brick wall that's been taught how to use the dislike button.

Yes, and I'd hope the employee in question would be able to identify that themselves before going to their manager and asking them to justify it.

Seriously, there are much better ways to get a leg up - at best you're not going to endear yourself to your manager by asking for a pay rise based on what one of your peers is getting paid, and at worst you face disciplinary action for breaching company policy and/or your employment contract.

 

[Fadge]

Here's one for you - has anyone actually tried to justify a pay rise with their manager based on what someone else in your company is getting paid?

If so, how did that go for you?

Conversely, has anyone had any employees trying to justify a pay rise based on the salary of one of their peers?

If so, how did you respond?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Yes, and I'd hope the employee in question would be able to identify that themselves before going to their manager and asking them to justify it.

Seriously, there are much better ways to get a leg up - at best you're not going to endear yourself to your manager by asking for a pay rise based on what one of your peers is getting paid, and at worst you face disciplinary action for breaching company policy and/or your employment contract.

Yeah, you're still twisting this to be something it doesn't have to be.

It can be very simple; people want to know what other people get paid so they know what they can ask for. Like, you don't seem to have a problem with people gauging the market rate for their services to work out if their being paid correctly so why is gauging the going rate around your office any different? How else do you think people figure out what the market rate is outside of their company if nobody talks about their pay or their job offers?

 

[Fadge]

Yeah, you're still twisting this to be something it doesn't have to be.

It can be very simple; people want to know what other people get paid so they know what they can ask for. Like, you don't seem to have a problem with people gauging the market rate for their services to work out if their being paid correctly so why is gauging the going rate around your office any different? How else do you think people figure out what the market rate is outside of their company if nobody talks about their pay or their job offers?

Have you ever asked for a pay rise based on the salary of one of your peers?

If so, how did it go?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Have you ever asked for a pay rise based on the salary of one of your peers?

If so, how did it go?

Yeah, I flat out asked for a number that I knew was a little more than somebody else in the office was getting and I got exactly what I asked for. It was an excellent experience and I strongly encourage other people to do the same. Hope this answers your question.

 

[Fadge]

Yeah, I flat out asked for a number that I knew was a little more than somebody else in the office was getting and I got exactly what I asked for. It was an excellent experience and I strongly encourage other people to do the same. Hope this answers your question.

So you didn't mention the other person's salary in your discussion? Interesting.

 

[the_interloper]

Yeah, you're still twisting this to be something it doesn't have to be.

It can be very simple; people want to know what other people get paid so they know what they can ask for. Like, you don't seem to have a problem with people gauging the market rate for their services to work out if their being paid correctly so why is gauging the going rate around your office any different? How else do you think people figure out what the market rate is outside of their company if nobody talks about their pay or their job offers?

Well the one way to do it is to speak to recruiters in your industry, that's the way I've done it in the past. Job ads usually won't help you as a lot either give a wide band or no salary info altogether.

 

[Seeds]

No I'm not, because I've never had to do it.

Ok but you are saying you would if the situation occured. And we are telling you that you would be committing a crime. would you still do it?

 

[Evolved1]

Yeah, it's not as if I say to them 'What, you've been discussing salaries? You're fired'.

Are you familiar with the concept 'managing out?'

A culture of employees feeling the need to discuss one another's salaries is a poor one.

Yes, how dare employees like each other enough to discuss salaries among themselves. The nerve!

I don't do it because I need to. I do it because I care more about my colleagues than my multinational conglomerate employer.

 

[Fadge]

I can't believe I'm having to explain to people why it's not a great thing to be discussing one another's salaries in a corporate environment.

BigFooty really is a very different world to the one in which I operate.

 

[Fadge]

Yes, how dare employees like each other enough to discuss salaries among themselves. The nerve!

I don't do it because I need to. I do it because I care more about my colleagues than my multinational conglomerate employer.

As another poster said, it's not about how well you get on with your colleagues.

I hope you've checked you company policy to ensure you're not in breach.

 

[Fadge]

Ok but you are saying you would if the situation occured. And we are telling you that you would be committing a crime. would you still do it?

As per my company policy the employee in question would face the requisite disciplinary action.

 

[Evolved1]

As another poster said, it's not about how well you get on with your colleagues.

I hope you've checked you company policy to ensure you're not in breach.

I'm sure they would have let me know by now if I was.

 

[Evolved1]

I can't believe I'm having to explain to people why it's not a great thing to be discussing one another's salaries in a corporate environment.

BigFooty really is a very different world to the one in which I operate.

What's your role in your specific corporate environment?