The Good Things About Dean Laidleys' as Coach of the NMFC.

[Rooboy 96]

Yeah id gladly trade our last 2 premierships for a couple of gutsy wins during Schimma's time as coach. Bugger building a list to win flags, just do whatever it takes not to get flogged.

Btw is this what we were doing back in Schimma's day, tanking for draft picks? No, then why would a team ever do it?

And the ladder?

1. StKilda - reckon their supporters are thinking, 'hand back draft picks' now?
2. Geelong - build a solid group of youngsters, remember the days Thompson was mostly likely to be sacked? He stuck to his plan and it paid off, BIG time.
3. Bulldogs - Spent a few years at the bottom rebuilding. Less time than some teams in this group. However probably less likely to win it and likely to have to have the smallest window of opportunity because of it.
4. Carlton - spent time at the bottom gathering the best young talent around.

7. Hawthorn (premiers) - ditto

Ive was always proud of our U19 record, that our club led the way in identifying the best young talent around. We have historically been leaders in this aspect of the game. By no means am i suggesting we dont try to win, its great to see a young team give their all, they will develop into better players for it. But rebuilding and giving youngsters a go typically means mistakes and the loses come with it. Doesnt mean they mean they arent trying.

Schimma and Laidleys experiences and demands have been totally different to compare the two is ridiculous... just too much Hawthorn thinking going on here...

 

[Rooboy 96]

Wins against the odds against Hawthorn - H&A as well as that magic final - Bulldogs, Collingwood and the Saints in particular stand out. It seems to suit some people to look back at seasons where we pulled these wins out against all expectations as wasted years where we could have been tanking for draft picks, but they were bloody proud days for our club and Dean's tactics, selections and motivation were critical.

From the outside he seems to have done what he was asked to by the Board - stayed competitive and was active in trading while that was what they wanted, then switched to youth and excitement when the power changed and the expectations of him with it.

Might not have made all the hard calls some would have liked but made some very tough ones with ex-teammates to kick off a new era.

Brought some talent in and developed a fair few players beyond their reputed capabilities to form a team that has almost always performed well above expectations and well beyond what is supposed to be possible from where we've drafted.

He's one of us and has generally given the impression from the start that coaching North - despite a lot of crap conditions other guys would not accept, and which kept plenty from even applying - was a great job, not a second choice or apprenticeship until a proper club came knocking.

He has saved our club from the humiliation many have gone through. Can't be underestimated, with the salary cap and spending constraints, the lack of draft hand, the bad luck with two of the more promising draftees we've had and the turnover from a successful period he's managed his way through. We came 14th one year, in between playing finals, even losing ones, and we can't stop thinking about how embarrassing that was. We owe him a lot that it our experience of the post-Pagan years hasn't been much worse.

Whenever we move on - and I'm happy for it to be after this year - I hope he gets all the credit internally I'm sure he'll be given from the outside.

excellent post even the last paragraph... I personally want him to have another 2 years but that's just my opinion...

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Yeah id gladly trade our last 2 premierships for a couple of gutsy wins during Schimma's time as coach. Bugger building a list to win flags, just do whatever it takes not to get flogged.

Btw is this what we were doing back in Schimma's day, tanking for draft picks? No, then why would a team ever do it?

And the ladder?

1. StKilda - reckon their supporters are thinking, 'hand back draft picks' now?
2. Geelong - build a solid group of youngsters, remember the days Thompson was mostly likely to be sacked? He stuck to his plan and it paid off, BIG time.
3. Bulldogs - Spent a few years at the bottom rebuilding. Less time than some teams in this group. However probably less likely to win it and likely to have to have the smallest window of opportunity because of it.
4. Carlton - spent time at the bottom gathering the best young talent around.

7. Hawthorn (premiers) - ditto

Ive was always proud of our U19 record, that our club led the way in identifying the best young talent around. We have historically been leaders in this aspect of the game. By no means am i suggesting we dont try to win, its great to see a young team give their all, they will develop into better players for it. But rebuilding and giving youngsters a go typically means mistakes and the loses come with it. Doesnt mean they mean they arent trying.

Times have changed - the only way to get the most promising talent these days is to come last. Being smarter with talent-spotting isn't the game any more, nor is picking kids out of zones for a bit of cash. You can't compare how we or any other club approached list building even in the 90s to now, let alone earlier.

Basically you can either lose on purpose to get the highest draft picks, or you can try to win games and then do your best to develop the talent that you can can snag wherever you get picks. I'd rather plan B every day of the week. And unlike some I believe players generally need development through training, coaching and VFL games as well as time in the seniors. You're trying to teach skills and attitude, so throwing them all in, expecting they'll lose and seeing what happens is not necessarily the best way forward for individuals or the club.

Saint Kilda have done nothing outside H&A yet to envy and even if they won three flags in a row I wouldn't give a rats what they or their supporters think. Ditto and more so for Carlton.

My main issue with Laidley as a coach - although it's not really for this thread - is that unlike Thomson, Clarkson and Malthouse he hasn't come in with a clear strategy and put recruitment, game style and everything at his disposal towards that strategy. I have no idea if that reflects a personal failing or a failure of the club to back him as other clubs have chosen to do with their coaches, although my feelings about the people running our club up to a couple of years ago mean I have no faith they played their part.

Back to the subject?

 

[Rooboy 96]

Good example rb.

It wasnt laidleys fault that Harris brought micky martyn along even though he was still at the club.

In hindsight it probably wasnt the best start for him as coach.

I don't get that... I loved the idea... why in hindsight was it wrong to teach the youngsters our history... and I don't understand why we no longer do it if we don't...

 

[Denny_Crane]

Face it, Laidley thought we could top up at the end of 2005. It was a disaster (like his ever-changing game plan, negative tactics and poor man-management skills, although his ability to sell us as rebuilding as soon as the game plan turns sour is Terry Wallace like)

This list:

• Kasey Green
• Jon Hay
• Mark Powell
• Leigh Brown
• Shane Harvey
• Cameron Thurley
• David Bourke
• Sam Power
• Daniel McConnell

Cost us the rights to these players:

• Ryan Gamble
• Grant Birchall
• Matthew Stokes
• Stephen Gilham
• Aaron Davey
• Jason Porplyzia
• Nick Malceski
• Kyle Cheney
• Travis Varcoe/Sam Gilbert

Yes hindsight blah blah. I would rather take a punt on someone who might be good rather than someone we knew (or should have known) was ordinary.

Denny Crane

 

[Rooboy 96]

Face it, Laidley thought we could top up at the end of 2005. It was a disaster (like his ever-changing game plan, negative tactics and poor man-management skills, although his ability to sell us as rebuilding as soon as the game plan turns sour is Terry Wallace like)

This list:

• Kasey Green
• Jon Hay
• Mark Powell
• Leigh Brown
• Shane Harvey
• Cameron Thurley
• David Bourke
• Sam Power
• Daniel McConnell

Cost us the rights to these players:

• Ryan Gamble
• Grant Birchall
• Matthew Stokes
• Stephen Gilham
• Aaron Davey
• Jason Porplyzia
• Nick Malceski
• Kyle Cheney
• Travis Varcoe/Sam Gilbert

Yes hindsight blah blah. I would rather take a punt on someone who might be good rather than someone we knew (or should have known) was ordinary.

Denny Crane

just bad recruiting I want him coaching not recruiting... I still can nyt believe Denis missed these though... and it's not like the blokes Denis picked delivered us anything...

1995 Sam McFarlane could have selected Daniel Bradshaw...

1996 Cam Mooney could have selected Russell Robertson... or Andrew Thompson

1997 Shannon Watt could have selected Nathan Thompson
1997 Paul McMahon or Brad Stephens could have selected Simon Black

1998 Rawlings at pick 15 (first rounder on a god damn tagger) could have selected Bredan Fevola
1998 Gary Dhurkay could have selected Andrew Embley

1999 Clayton Lasscock could have selected Cameron Bruce

2000 Dylan Smith could have selected Johncock
2000 Motlop could have selected Daniel Cross

2001 Hale and Watson could have selected Paul Medhurst… Dane Swan or Adam Schneider

 

[DarwinRoo]

I'm sure if Nev had his way, he would have preffered to have those 2 first rounders from the Hay deal to work with at the draft.

What 2 first rounders would they be? Can you name a club that gets 2 first round picks even though it made the finals and doesn't trade for an extra pick?

 

[Denny_Crane]

just bad recruiting I want him coaching not recruiting... I still can nyt believe Denis missed these though... and it's not like the blokes Denis picked delivered us anything...

1995 Sam McFarlane could have selected Daniel Bradshaw...

1996 Cam Mooney could have selected Russell Robertson... or Andrew Thompson

1997 Shannon Watt could have selected Nathan Thompson
1997 Paul McMahon or Brad Stephens could have selected Simon Black

1998 Rawlings at pick 15 (first rounder on a god damn tagger) could have selected Bredan Fevola
1998 Gary Dhurkay could have selected Andrew Embley

1999 Clayton Lasscock could have selected Cameron Bruce

2000 Dylan Smith could have selected Johncock
2000 Motlop could have selected Daniel Cross

2001 Hale and Watson could have selected Paul Medhurst… Dane Swan or Adam Schneider

There's a difference between trading away good pick for ordinary players, and making a mistake at the draft table.

Denny Crane

 

[DarwinRoo]

Face it, Laidley thought we could top up at the end of 2005. It was a disaster (like his ever-changing game plan, negative tactics and poor man-management skills, although his ability to sell us as rebuilding as soon as the game plan turns sour is Terry Wallace like)

This list:

• Kasey Green
• Jon Hay
• Mark Powell
• Leigh Brown
• Shane Harvey
• Cameron Thurley
• David Bourke
• Sam Power
• Daniel McConnell

Cost us the rights to these players:

• Ryan Gamble
• Grant Birchall
• Matthew Stokes
• Stephen Gilham
• Aaron Davey
• Jason Porplyzia
• Nick Malceski
• Kyle Cheney
• Travis Varcoe/Sam Gilbert

Yes hindsight blah blah. I would rather take a punt on someone who might be good rather than someone we knew (or should have known) was ordinary.

Denny Crane

We never had the draft pick that was used to select Grant Birchall.

 

[Rooboy 96]

There's a difference between trading away good pick for ordinary players, and making a mistake at the draft table.

Denny Crane

In your eyes Denny... in your eyes... if you want to have a hindsight argument... so be it Denny... but don't then think you can only have hindsight on what you want... even if you are Denny Crane...

 

[blackshadow]

In your eyes Denny... in your eyes... if you want to have a hindsight argument... so be it Denny... but don't then think you can only have hindsight on what you want... even if you are Denny Crane...

I think Denny wants a sleep over.

 

[Denny_Crane]

In your eyes Denny... in your eyes... if you want to have a hindsight argument... so be it Denny... but don't then think you can only have hindsight on what you want... even if you are Denny Crane...

No one on here could have predicted that David Trotter wouldn't make it when he was 17/18.

Plenty on here could see that the likes of Power, Powell and Hay weren't up to it, and were baffled to see us give up draft picks for known average players.

Are you happy with 1 finals win in the last 7 seasons?
When have we rebuilt in that time? I'll tell you when, when it suits Laidley, and it is always in retrospect.

Denny Crane

 

[DarwinRoo]

No one on here could have predicted that David Trotter wouldn't make it when he was 17/18.

Plenty on here could see that the likes of Power, Powell and Hay weren't up to it, and were baffled to see us give up draft picks for known average players.

Are you happy with 1 finals win in the last 7 seasons?
When have we rebuilt in that time? I'll tell you when, when it suits Laidley, and it is always in retrospect.

Denny Crane

We starting rebuilding back in 2006.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

We starting rebuilding back in 2006.

And how many times have we changed game plan since then? FFS.

Though we did DRAFT well that year.

Every player has senior games. A couple - Hansen, Urqs, Goldstein, Warren - every chance to be ten year players.

We have drafted quite well in recent years.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Cost us the rights to these players:

• Ryan Gamble
• Grant Birchall
• Matthew Stokes
• Stephen Gilham
• Aaron Davey
• Jason Porplyzia
• Nick Malceski
• Kyle Cheney
• Travis Varcoe/Sam Gilbert

Yes hindsight blah blah. I would rather take a punt on someone who might be good rather than someone we knew (or should have known) was ordinary.

Denny Crane

so that is assuming our recruiting department... the same recruiting department that selected Urch Grima Trotter Tarrant and the abundance of other injury prone players... would have actually selected one of these... but that is Laidleys fault too...

 

[Rooboy 96]

And how many times have we changed game plan since then? FFS.

Though we did DRAFT well that year.

Every player has senior games. A couple - Hansen, Urqs, Goldstein, Warren - every chance to be ten year players.

We have drafted quite well in recent years.

heard of bloke by the name of Craig... he is being applauded for changing his game plan...

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Yeah but we change ours every year, often twice a year.

FFS - remember how all preseason Hansen was going to play as a lead up forward and then after the Carlton debacle, bang, he's off to CHB?

That worked, only because CHB is his best natural position.

So many times we've done a pre season to give us a bigger tank, or make the players stronger, only for it backfire.

Time has come for a change.

 

[RoyalBlue]

heard of bloke by the name of Craig... he is being applauded for changing his game plan...

I'd be pleased to hear that, because that bloke named Craig's old game plan belted the shit out of Dean's non game plan every time.

We might have a chance now.

 

[NICK_ROOBOY83]

Bleeds Blue and White

Don't think so RB96.

excellent post even the last paragraph... I personally want him to have another 2 years but that's just my opinion...

Really? I guess your all for mediocrity.

 

[budge11]

Yeah but we change ours every year, often twice a year.

FFS - remember how all preseason Hansen was going to play as a lead up forward and then after the Carlton debacle, bang, he's off to CHB?

That worked, only because CHB is his best natural position.

So many times we've done a pre season to give us a bigger tank, or make the players stronger, only for it backfire.

Time has come for a change.

/sign

 

[Zondor]

Tactically very good we have all accepted this... however some seem to discount this as something not very important... I don't

Neither do I discount it however I think that Laidleys has been inconsistent in this area. In some games he has been brilliant as illustrated in our match against Hawthorn last year and Essendon this year. Then in other games he has been ordinary as was the case in last years Final against Sydney where he allowed the Swans to clear out their forward line and Isolate Barry Hall one on one against Gibson. Gee should I mention 2006 where he tactically got it all wrong for the season. It's all good and well to praise him when we have won against the odds but how abouts when we got thumped by the lowly Essendon, Fremantle and Port Adelaide last year? I'd say he was out coached on those days.

Bleeds Blue and White - today we have the same Dean Laidley that retired on 99 games for North... early in a season... he did not hang around bleeding the club for payments once he realised he was of no further value... just retired and said thanks... have to admire him for that...

Yeah he bleeds Blue and White and thus he made some inquiries indirectly on the quiet for the StKilda coaching gig when it became available a few years back.

Wears his heart on his sleeve - love the way Dean expresses himself... you know when he is happy and when he is pissed... good trait for a coach I reckon...

This just illustrates that he hasn't got a handle of his emotions. He can fly off the deep end at times and as a result he has upset a few players. This wouldn't mean jack but gee since he gave Harris that spray in front of the playing group Harris just hasn't been the same. Wearing his heart on his sleeve indeed.

Hates the media - something any self respecting North person should do... Denis did...

This is simply a stupid statement. You need to be pragmatic and coexist with the media. You need to be able to sell the club to a point at least as coach. Hating the media is idiotic.

Put our football club above himself - fights for more money for the football department... not himself... the football department...

Fair Enough. Good on him.

and I think Denny Crane said it best himself when he listed the crap Dean has been forced to coach... I assume this is due to the club having less resources to spend on recruiting then other clubs...

B Kasey Green Jon Hay David Trotter
HB Justin Perkins Shannon Watt Mark Powell
C Michael Stevens Lance Picioane Leigh Brown
HF Cameron Thurley Jade Rawlings Shane Harvey
F David Bourke Brent LeCras Eddie Sansbury
R David Hale Sam Power Ben Davies
I Daniel McConnell, Ashley Watson, Chad Jones, Troy Schwarze

E Matt Riggio, Kris Shore

and yet he has still managed to maintain an almost equal win loss count over seven years... very impressive... I was amazed Danny Crane mentioned this... but it just shows we can all see the light...

Gee some of those guys ended up at the NMFC as a direct result of Dean Laidleys. Some of the others have been continually played when they should have been dropped. All the fault of Dean Laidleys. Rubbish Arguement IMO.

I am not a player so have very little knowledge as to how he handles them... if he upsets them by being honest??? but I like what I saw Laids do with Thomo during quarter time break against Geelong... took him aside and showed him how to position himself better... bit of one on one... just what Thomo needed at that time...

That's fair enough. There is no doubt that some of the players believe that they have improved and learnt about football as a result of Dean Laidleys. Adam Simpson has said as much recently. But it is also fair to say he has rubbed some players up the wrong way. Once again a sign of his inconsistency.

when it comes down to it I like him as a North person just like many don't like him as a coach... I feel he has been hard done by and really think he can succeed as a coach if given the same resources as many others... and maybe a recruiting department that does not need the coach to get involved in decisions during trade week...

Fair Enough. That's your opinion. I don't think he has been hard done by. He simply has made too many mistakes over his tenure and with this being his 7th year and the club headed for a bottom 8 finish it's time for a change. Surely we need to explore all coaching options and ensure the best available person is coaching the Mighty NMFC. If that is Dean Laidleys after all reviews are carried out I'd be astounded.

Anyways thanks Rooboy 96 for your input into this discussion.

At least you've given me a breakdown of what you think are Dean Laidleys' good qualities as a coach. For that respect.

 

[The Other Dean]

Not to mention all the imaginary wooden spoons he saved us from.

 

[RoyalBlue]

Not to mention all the imaginary wooden spoons he saved us from.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

You really should post warnings before posting pictures that include birds AND rainbows. I'm open minded but gee...

 

[DarwinRoo]

One of his negatives though is that he never gave those VFL superstars a crack at senior footy and once they were let go by the club they went on to become AFL superstars eg Joel Perry.